Head Honcho Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 yeah right! You need to sniff the aroma of the latte mate! I place graduates into jobs all the time... most of them pay f all a week for the rest of their lives and many try to stay UNDER the repayment salary threshold ! Bit like cutting your nose off to spite your face don't ya think? I'm sure the majority of student aren't like that they'll earn the necessary eventually. I have no problem with paying for higher education just so long as there's a decent degree at the end of it, any waster who leaves uni with anything less then a 2/1 should pay the loan back with interest! Even a 2/1 should carry a penalty.
Janx Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 Bit like cutting your nose off to spite your face don't ya think? I'm sure the majority of student aren't like that they'll earn the necessary eventually. I have no problem with paying for higher education just so long as there's a decent degree at the end of it, any waster who leaves uni with anything less then a 2/1 should pay the loan back with interest! Even a 2/1 should carry a penalty. I think the problem is that we all agree we need students/ brainy types/ future leaders/ people to run companies/ inventors/ etc etc right? So I would be happy to chuck my few tax pennies into the pot.... but Tone and pals have made higher education into a profit making organisation... by a) allowing 0 and A levels to be marked higher... and dont tell me otherwise...b) making your local flower arranging night school into "universities" ...thereby allowing total cretins to get a degree ..like ...BA HONS in CAKE DECORATING... now I am not slagging ALL students, but its merely a revenue generator, and a happy bi-product is that many young people are off the statistics of unemployment and "students"... even though they still cost the tax payer a fortune... the general level of grads in hugely lower these days... I get CVs from people who cant even spell, do grammar and that etc..... We are VERY VERY poor cousins when it comes to what grads we produce.
Benji Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 I think the problem is that we all agree we need students/ brainy types/ future leaders/ people to run companies/ inventors/ etc etc right? So I would be happy to chuck my few tax pennies into the pot.... but Tone and pals have made higher education into a profit making organisation... by a) allowing 0 and A levels to be marked higher... and dont tell me otherwise...b) making your local flower arranging night school into "universities" ...thereby allowing total cretins to get a degree ..like ...BA HONS in CAKE DECORATING... now I am not slagging ALL students, but its merely a revenue generator, and a happy bi-product is that many young people are off the statistics of unemployment and "students"... even though they still cost the tax payer a fortune... the general level of grads in hugely lower these days... I get CVs from people who cant even spell, do grammar and that etc..... We are VERY VERY poor cousins when it comes to what grads we produce. To be fair hearing what people in my college are going to study next year i can't disagree. You can get a degree in windsurfing now!
Dunc Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 If the coal industry had been subsidised in the way the nuclear power industry was, VERY few pits would have had to be closed. Thatcher had a vendetta against the miners and used the police and army (at great public expense) to help pursue it. Really? Not for those enduring mass unemployment it wasn't, or the riots that frequently shook the inner cities. If nuclear energy was cheaper outside the UK and was easier to shut down than coal mines then I have no doubt that they would have been closed. I agree Thatcher didn't deal with the closures particularly well at all, but it's generally accepted (outside the coal communities) that it was a sound policy. As for the mass unemployed and the country not being a better place to live, I was talking about as a whole and that is (as far as I can find) a fact, that things could not have continued as they were in 1977. As for mass unemployment, there are many who believe that current low employment is because of those policies of privatisation. I think tehre is a quote which says something along the lines that Thatcher didn't create the mass unemployment, they were unemployed in centralised companies like British Gas/Steel/Airways/Telecom etc (meaning the tax payers were paying for people that weren't needed but were kept employed due to the nature of the way those companies were run)
Head Honcho Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 I think the problem is that we all agree we need students/ brainy types/ future leaders/ people to run companies/ inventors/ etc etc right? So I would be happy to chuck my few tax pennies into the pot.... but Tone and pals have made higher education into a profit making organisation... by a) allowing 0 and A levels to be marked higher... and dont tell me otherwise...b) making your local flower arranging night school into "universities" ...thereby allowing total cretins to get a degree ..like ...BA HONS in CAKE DECORATING... now I am not slagging ALL students, but its merely a revenue generator, and a happy bi-product is that many young people are off the statistics of unemployment and "students"... even though they still cost the tax payer a fortune... the general level of grads in hugely lower these days... I get CVs from people who cant even spell, do grammar and that etc..... We are VERY VERY poor cousins when it comes to what grads we produce. You're right we do need fund our future professionals....... ...............but why should our taxes have to pay for some lazy twat to sit around all week smoking dope hoping he can get off his fat arse in time to attend a couple lectures a week?
Head Honcho Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 To be fair hearing what people in my college are going to study next year i can't disagree. You can get a degree in windsurfing now! He's right http://cgi.ebay.com/Dr-of-Windsurfing-Dipl...0QQcmdZViewItem Seriously though I have heard this before, it's amazing really isn't it.
Benji Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 He's right http://cgi.ebay.com/Dr-of-Windsurfing-Dipl...0QQcmdZViewItem Seriously though I have heard this before, it's amazing really isn't it. haha, yer when we started the UCAS process you get a list of all the degrees available, believe me it is HUGE and you can't believe some are full-time degrees UCAS
Thracian Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 Regardless of the fact that you, and the country, are better off under labour than you ever were under Tory administration? I thought that statistics were released recently showing that the tax burden is so high people now have to work longer than ever before into a tax year before they put any money into their own pocket. By the way I vote for no-one because no-one represents my views, in fact very few of them genuinely re[resent their own views from what I can see. I would vote if I believed a politician or a political party was genuinely acting for the people instead of his/her own personal ends, if he/she was sincere and if they stood for things that were genuinely worthwhile, honestly, conscientiously and consistently I don't like liars, hypocrits, opportunists, strategic turncoats, people being deceptive, manipulators or people who are insincere, corrupt or self-serving. No wonder I don't vote reading that lot.
Head Honcho Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 I thought that statistics were released recently showing that the tax burden is so high people now have to work longer than ever before into a tax year before they put any money into their own pocket. But surely you can remember the high interest rates of the 80's, that was a tax you had to pay or else you lost your home! I was paying £75 a week in interest alone is this not a tax? How soon we forget!
Thracian Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 But surely you can remember the high interest rates of the 80's, that was a tax you had to pay or else you lost your home! I was paying £75 a week in interest alone is this not a tax? How soon we forget! I've not forgotten at all. But you did have the right to buy your home which was more than the Labour Party would ever have given you. No, I remember good and bad about that era but the fact remains, so I read in the national press, that all things considered the ta burden is greatest now. That is not a party political broadcast on behalf of anyone. As I said, I don't vote. But if I did I certainly wouldn't vote for this lot. They are utterly disreputable and saying others are disreputable is no compensation nor is it of any consequence because are not in power.
davieG Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 I've not forgotten at all. But you did have the right to buy your home which was more than the Labour Party would ever have given you. No, I remember good and bad about that era but the fact remains, so I read in the national press, that all things considered the ta burden is greatest now. That is not a party political broadcast on behalf of anyone. As I said, I don't vote. But if I did I certainly wouldn't vote for this lot. They are utterly disreputable and saying others are disreputable is no compensation nor is it of any consequence because are not in power. The tax taken from individuals has increased systematically over the years, no matter who's been in power ever since it was introduced as a temporary measure
Janx Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 manipulation of the truth.... stealth taxing... all taxes go into a big vat of cash and is spent badly... whereas tax like rd tax should be spent on the rds and council tax on services...they just get pissed up the wall wherever gordo sees fit..
Daggers Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 the opportunism, hypocrisy and incompetence of the Lib Dems Indulge me...
Daggers Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 We now have career politicians who will do almost anything to climb the greasy pole. Sadly, I agree. The thing is, I feel, that we have to reclaim politics from the politicians and the only way of doing that is to get involved. I fear that by alienating the public the politicos have secured the arena for themselves. How many people here go to their local surgery to quiz their MP? How many write to their MP demanding action? If you make no demands on your MP then why should anyone be surprised when he/she does sod all?
davieG Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 Sadly, I agree. The thing is, I feel, that we have to reclaim politics from the politicians and the only way of doing that is to get involved. I fear that by alienating the public the politicos have secured the arena for themselves. How many people here go to their local surgery to quiz their MP? How many write to their MP demanding action? If you make no demands on your MP then why should anyone be surprised when he/she does sod all? They'd just use it as an excuse to claim more expenses and another secretary to shag. What we need is some severe downsizing but turkey's don't vote for christmas do they?
Janx Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 They'd just use it as an excuse to claim more expenses and another secretary to shag. What we need is some severe downsizing but turkey's don't vote for christmas do they? Privatise the public sector!
Head Honcho Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 Sadly, I agree. The thing is, I feel, that we have to reclaim politics from the politicians and the only way of doing that is to get involved. I fear that by alienating the public the politicos have secured the arena for themselves. How many people here go to their local surgery to quiz their MP? How many write to their MP demanding action? If you make no demands on your MP then why should anyone be surprised when he/she does sod all? We need the public to take elections seriously and for everyone to get off their arse and vote even if you vote for non of the above you should at least be required to attend the polling station. Apathy is killing our electoral system and we need to do something to get people interested in it again! The lying b*****ds we call MP's don't help mind
davieG Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 Privatise the public sector! That doesn't help either, you end up with privatised monopolies sucking the average person dry, what we need is a butcher to cut it back to the bare bones of the essentials. I guess there'd be some arguments of what is essential but you could cut away layer upon layer before you'd even have to make that decision. People may think with recent governments that there has been radical change, there hasn't all they done is build additional layers on what was alrady there and in lots of cases working fine, the law is a classic example of that. We're drowning under a sea of bureaucracy that is bleeding the public dry.
davieG Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 We need the public to take elections seriously and for everyone to get off their arse and vote even if you vote for non of the above you should at least be required to attend the polling station. Apathy is killing our electoral system and we need to do something to get people interested in it again! The lying b*****ds we call MP's don't help mind Would never see the light of day, how often do you see published: Cons 1 vote Lab 1 vote Libs 1 vote Spoilt papers X votes NB numbers chosen to avoid any bias which I'm not.
Head Honcho Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 That doesn't help either, you end up with privatised monopolies sucking the average person dry, what we need is a butcher to cut it back to the bare bones of the essentials. I guess there'd be some arguments of what is essential but you could cut away layer upon layer before you'd even have to make that decision. People may think with recent governments that there has been radical change, there hasn't all they done is build additional layers on what was alrady there and in lots of cases working fine, the law is a classic example of that. We're drowning under a sea of bureaucracy that is bleeding the public dry. Don't forget civil servants pension scheme's!
davieG Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 Don't forget civil servants pension scheme's! A drop in the ocean, and they do contribute to it, unlike the politicans. Civil servant's pensions are a smoke screen set up by the government to deflect attention away from the billions wasted on them and their failed schemes. We're all supposed to go cap in hand begging for money for this community scheme or that school, or that hospital whilst they waste billions pretenfing they're measuring how efficient the ordinary person in the street is when they are the most inefficient part of the system.
Daggers Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 Would never see the light of day, how often do you see published: Spoilt papers X votes That's the system favoured by Student Unions, Re-open nominations (RON), and I'm a fan - get the lazy buggers worried that they may not sail into office because of a protest vote. Plus, it gives the stupid something to vote for in place of using the BNP as a protest vote.
Deathside Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 We need the public to take elections seriously and for everyone to get off their arse and vote even if you vote for non of the above you should at least be required to attend the polling station. Apathy is killing our electoral system and we need to do something to get people interested in it again! Maybe this is indicating that our electoral system is not the answer
Daggers Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 Maybe this is indicating that our electoral system is not the answer Apart from including proportional representation, where's a better workable example?
davieG Posted 2 August 2006 Posted 2 August 2006 Apart from including proportional representation, where's a better workable example? Agreed it's not the system per se, they all have their faults it's the fact that career politicians are not trusted the same goes for those that run BIG businesses. They are all filling their pockets with money that most of them will never get to spend whilst ensuring that the majority are pruned down to a stump. Not that it was any differentin the past but this people are just cancerous parasites.
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