Who do Leicester people vote for

[Strokes]

Have always voted Tory in the past but will vote BNP at the next election.

[Daggers]

Have always voted Tory in the past but will vote BNP at the next election.

Yea, Fox 4 Eva Braun is back!

Oh, but hang on a minute, you said you voted BNP in the last election.

Oh for shame ~ were you telling porkies?

So come on then which one is it: are you a big fat liar liar pants on fire or are you a race-hate fan ? Hell, they're pretty synonymous are they so why not let's go with both

[Ultra]

'Fox 4 Eva Braun' Like it!

Supporting the BNP is nothing to boast about, though.

[Gamesmaster]

You are wrongly assuming that everyone of those 2 million people on incapacity benefit is in someway cheating the system.

I didnt say they cheated (although im sure some do), i mean new labour have encouraged them to go on the sick to reduce the "unemployment" number. Ive heard many a political brain explain so.

the problem is, that most folks dont take much detailed notice of whats going on, and just assume that what there told is factual. Thus they think new labour is doing a good enough job.

In 1997, when new labour become government, the Uk was in the black to the tune of £50,000,000B due to the previous government (not that i support the liberal conservative party), political experts will tell you that were now in the red by upto £900,000,000B 900 billion, germany is too.

We still own 50% of Washinghton DC though....trific, but we still owe america for WW2. You'd think they'd let us off with poodle blair defending them all the time.

Just wait untill this country becomes a mad state of affairs. Currently, 120,000 people leave due to the disaster thats occuring.

[Gamesmaster]

Have always voted Tory in the past but will vote BNP at the next election.

the old tories are the new BNP

"new BNP", can i just copyright that, DONE!

[DanTheFoxBhoy]

It would be great if we could all earn similar, but unless you give an example how we can get that, theres no point saying, thats what i want, so thats how it should be, and the ones who earn the most should give THEIR money to poorer people, its just farcical Dan.

Erm... Union activity? I know it got out of control in Britain due to the more militant style overwhelming the movement, but union shops all get a fairer deal.

As for giving your money to 'poorer' people as you so aptly put it, I'm not suggesting paying up for freeloaders who could work but can't be arsed. There are people out there genuinely disabled, down on their luck or whatever who need a pick-me-up, and as fellow citizens we shouldn't be anal about.

Honestly, there are people in this world who bitch about refugees coming to their country! Beyond belief!! "Fair enough his house got shelled, half his family was killed in conflict and he wants a better life for his children, I don't want 0.0000001% of the taxes I pay going towards giving him a bed in MY country!" Selfish, grass-chewing wankers!

[Darren27]

If nuclear energy was cheaper outside the UK and was easier to shut down than coal mines then I have no doubt that they would have been closed.

I agree Thatcher didn't deal with the closures particularly well at all, but it's generally accepted (outside the coal communities) that it was a sound policy.

I know Dunc posted this several days ago but I have to respond to this one. Shutting down the coal business was a sound move on business terms? how do you figure that one?

Yes coal was cheaper to import from Poland and former East Germany at the time, but not all pits made a loss. Close those making a loss, keep open thoes making a profit, that would have left about half open. Now when we have a national energy crisis we cant switch to more coal because the Poles have stuck the price right up and secondly the quality of Polish coal is crap, enviromentally you might aswell just burn old tyres as their lignite. The Thatcher gov would not pay for the pits to be mothballed, just simply abandoned and as such many could never be open again in any major capacity.

Closing the pits has a direct link to the excessive prices we are paying for domestic energy. As the Polish put up their prices in response to there being no other viable source of coal for the UK as competition, the powergenerators switched to gas as the cheap energy. It was not due to the environment but cost. As hydrpocarbon costs increase we are all locked into using gas, you cant heat your house anyother way cost effectively.

Hardly a sound move.

[Gamesmaster]

Erm... Union activity? I know it got out of control in Britain due to the more militant style overwhelming the movement, but union shops all get a fairer deal.

As for giving your money to 'poorer' people as you so aptly put it, I'm not suggesting paying up for freeloaders who could work but can't be arsed. There are people out there genuinely disabled, down on their luck or whatever who need a pick-me-up, and as fellow citizens we shouldn't be anal about.

Honestly, there are people in this world who bitch about refugees coming to their country! Beyond belief!! "Fair enough his house got shelled, half his family was killed in conflict and he wants a better life for his children, I don't want 0.0000001% of the taxes I pay going towards giving him a bed in MY country!" Selfish, grass-chewing wankers!

Im not really sure what kind of wall you bang your head on. I never suggested paying up dole bluggers, we were talking about the workforce. I agree with helping those that cant help themselves, goes without saying.

Can you just explain to me please in plain English, what you want the pay structure of the uk's workforce to earn and why?

As for your refugee stance, do you agree we should let any amount of war torn individuals in our country?

[Daggers]

In 1997, when new labour become government, the Uk was in the black to the tune of £50,000,000B due to the previous government (not that i support the liberal conservative party), political experts will tell you that were now in the red by upto £900,000,000B 900 billion, germany is too .

Sources?

We still own 50% of Washinghton DC though....trific, but we still owe america for WW2. You'd think they'd let us off with poodle blair defending them all the time.

What? What has this to do with the price of fish?

Just wait untill this country becomes a mad state of affairs. Currently, 120,000 people leave due to the disaster thats occuring.

What? What are you on about? What is a mad state of affairs? Who are these 120,000 people? Why are they going? Where does the information come form?

:pinch:

[Finnegan]

I agree Thatcher didn't deal with the closures particularly well at all, but it's generally accepted (outside the coal communities) that it was a sound policy.

But dealing with the fall-out is half of the job. If I did half a job at work and left the mess to cause problems for the customer's I'd be given the sack. You go to Aberdare or Merthyr and tell me Thatcher did a good job. Look at the full out of industrial bastions such as Newcastle and Sheffield. The job of the Prime Minister is to serve his / her country and it's people, and unfortunately for Ms. Thatcher and her reputation - that includes those who can't afford BMWs, swimming pools and membership to the country club.

Oh - and that rolls nicely into...

Voting for a proper party.

[Ultra]

One that supports firebombings?

[Finnegan]

The Plaid actually spoke out on numerous occasions - and had a rather rocky relationship with - the FWA, MAC and the more recent Meibion Glyndŵr. It should also be noted that bombings carried out by all three organisations were carefully planned to avoid all loss of life and were succesful in that aim.

[Gamesmaster]

Sources?

Talksport current affairs presenters and guest experts.

What? What has this to do with the price of fish?

I was expressing the price of war on terrorism, and our coalition poodle entering bush's back side without payment.

What is a mad state of affairs? Who are these 120,000 people? Why are they going? Where does the information come form?

Mass immigration/asylum seekers/illegals already cause a mad state of affairs, get you head out the sand.

National statistics - Out Migration UK 2004

"Out-migration increased more quickly than inflows but to a lesser extent, from 238,000 in 1994 to 360,000 in 2004."

Last paragraph:

"Net losses of Britons from the UK grew rapidly over the decade, from 17,000 in 1994 to 120,000 in 2004."

"In 2003, around two fifths of British citizens out-migrating were moving to other countries in the EU and over one quarter to Australia or New Zealand"

Why are they going? Maybe cos there fed up with mass immigration. There going to live with their indigenous cousins there leaving us to get on with things

[Darren27]

It should also be noted that bombings carried out by all three organisations were carefully planned to avoid all loss of life and were succesful in that aim.

So that makes it alright then?

[Finnegan]

Yes, yes it does. I should add "or injury" to that sentence to clarify. Targets were empty buildings, pipelines, politically strategical locations. And before some old bod forum member brings up holiday homes, yes holiday homes. Though that's a slightly different issue. You're into the realms of Meibion Glyndŵr more than MAC, there.

I would in no way condone the actions of, say, the IRA - who used militant tactics for a nationalist, seperatist cause. But I, in all honesty, can't say I'm shocked or offended by the actions past of MAC or the FWA.

[Ultra]

I'm wary of any party which presents an extreme nationalist case. They very rarely, if ever, do so in the aid of progressive politics.

Plaid are no exception. They may pose as a left-wing alternative to Labour in the south but they have also opposed the Tories from the right in the north.

[Finnegan]

The problem with the word 'nationalist' is that white, "nationalist" (jingoist, is the word they REALLY want) organisations in England, mainland Europe and America have made it a scary phrase. In the context of (Northern) Ireland, Scotland and Wales it takes its literal sense - and that is the desire for a seperate, free state.

Whether you agree with that in the context of Britain isn't important, what's important is that you don't think that every Welsh, Scotish or Irish nationalist is a white-supremacist, right-wing nut-case. I would consider my politics to be mildly nationalist in the context of Wales. I'm undecided at my age whether or not I think Wales would benefit from being a free state (economically Ireland is growing and in some recent European survey it stated that as a country they've got the best standard of living, apparently? So it's obviously working for them) - but I do certanly believe in the preservation of Welsh culture, language and identity. In response to mindsets like this, the Plaid have recently actually tried to shelve their seperatist image.

[Flagg]

I am above politics.

[Darren27]

The problem with the word 'nationalist' is that white, "nationalist" (jingoist, is the word they REALLY want) organisations in England, mainland Europe and America have made it a scary phrase. In the context of (Northern) Ireland, Scotland and Wales it takes its literal sense - and that is the desire for a seperate, free state.

Whether you agree with that in the context of Britain isn't important, what's important is that you don't think that every Welsh, Scotish or Irish nationalist is a white-supremacist, right-wing nut-case. I would consider my politics to be mildly nationalist in the context of Wales. I'm undecided at my age whether or not I think Wales would benefit from being a free state (economically Ireland is growing and in some recent European survey it stated that as a country they've got the best standard of living, apparently? So it's obviously working for them) - but I do certanly believe in the preservation of Welsh culture, language and identity. In response to mindsets like this, the Plaid have recently actually tried to shelve their seperatist image.

Yes Ireland has done very well economically in the past decade or so, but that has been on the back of vast tax handouts from the EU and nothing to do with their status as an independent nation. Dont get me wrong I have no problem with the EU handouts, and the Irish government has done a reasonable job of controlling the investment to promote economic growth, but they were an independent country long before they acheived economic growth.

Using that argument with Wales is not straight forward. Walse would probably not recieve any more money from the EU just for being an independent nation, than it does now from the combined funding of the British government and the EU. The important thing is, is their the political diversity to promote good governance? The Irish government has a broad spectrum of parties which have combined to produce robust checks and balances in the system. The Scottish executive has suffered in its early years by their being an abundance of SNP members. The SNP started as a single issue party, Scottish independence. Recent elections have seen the voters turn away from the SNP in favour of some of the more established parties due to their involvement in more political issues. The SNP has been forced to become a more mainstream party as a result, although it still retains independence as a central value. Working north of the border, and as an Englishman (with Welsh and Scottish grandparents) I feel the prospect of Scottish independence has been set back by the SNPs early reluctance to become a more mainstream party. Things are now changing within the SNP and it remains to be seen how things develope.

If a serious move for Welsh inderpedance is to be made, then Plaid need to be more than a single issue party and become a more rounded mainstream party, then they will be a serious voice for Welsh nationalism. But in the mean time I would not get over excited with the prospect of rapid economic growth for Wales through independence. I dont believe independence itself will bring that, and now the east european nations are joining the EU, there will be far less money heading in the direction of "Old Europe". It remains to be seen if the Irish economy will continue to grow as fast once their development money is reduced.

[Finnegan]

Oh, absolutely. I have no misconceptions about the enormity of the Irish separation. Rounded up, we're looking at nearly a hundred years and there are still problems in Ireland, and that's with a vast degree of support, as you say. As I've said, I'm still not entirely convinced that Welsh separation is even the way forward (though I definitely believe that Wales should, at least, be granted it’s own parliament – I mean come on, boys, an “assembly”?), a year ago I was reading a lot of separatist material and it all seemed to make sense - but when people asked me why I'd wish Wales to be a free nation I always struggled to explain and sometimes ended up failing to convince myself, let alone them.

As far as parties go I agree completely and it's been a sizeable draw back for time. It's all well and good Plaid Cymru devoting their politics to independence, but people all over the world vote with their wallets and not their hearts. People want to see promises of a healthy economy more than they want to see vast change to their political climate and that will always hamper separatist politics if the parties involved can't be mature enough to establish themselves as a genuine, rounded political presence.

Luckily, as I say, Plaid are trying to evolve now and in the last year or two have taken major steps to re-launch themselves (a la New Labour) as a liberal, centre-left party and hopefully it will yield results. New badge looks wank though

[Gamesmaster]

I'm wary of any party which presents an extreme nationalist case. They very rarely, if ever, do so in the aid of progressive politics.

Plaid are no exception. They may pose as a left-wing alternative to Labour in the south but they have also opposed the Tories from the right in the north.

Can you explain to me what you mean by "extreme"? Do you agree, that by calling someone extreme, that that same logic can be portrayed in your direction?

SosbanFach

"Luckily, as I say, Plaid are trying to evolve now and in the last year or two have taken major steps to re-launch themselves (a la New Labour) as a liberal, centre-left party and hopefully it will yield results."

Are they trying to be someone there not, just to gain a vote? Whatever happened to inviduality eh.

[Finnegan]

No, no they're not. Plaid Cymru have always been a centre-left / left-wing, perhaps moderately socialist (not surprising in a country like Wales), political party. However, they have previously devoted most of their campaigning and policies to the topic of separation. In the modern political climate, that alone isn't really going to get you votes and so they're now trying to reshape and put more emphasis on presenting a more balanced manifesto.

[Gamesmaster]

"Luckily, as I say, Plaid are trying to evolve now and in the last year or two have taken major steps to re-launch themselves (a la New Labour) as a liberal, centre-left party and hopefully it will yield results."

Are they trying to be someone there not, just to gain a vote? Whatever happened to inviduality eh.

No, no they're not. Plaid Cymru have always been a centre-left / left-wing, perhaps moderately socialist (not surprising in a country like Wales), political party. However, they have previously devoted most of their campaigning and policies to the topic of separation. In the modern political climate, that alone isn't really going to get you votes and so they're now trying to reshape and put more emphasis on presenting a more balanced manifesto.

Chop n change rarely works, other than for those parties that have been around too long. Dead in the mud parties gain some or alot of votes "because my folks voted for them, that must be a good reason..." and they see them on tv alot, must be important people then, must have the best policies.

Again, whatever happened to individuality?

Who here votes for a party because they know someone they like does, or are taken in by party celebrityism?

Tell us the best policy of the party you vote for?

[Daggers]

Who here votes for a party because they know someone they like does, or are taken in by party celebrityism?

Have you been taking drugs Gamesmaster? Celebrities associated with the parties?

TORY

LABOUR

LIB DEM

SCOTS NATIONALISTS

Not exactly Brad Pitt are they!

[Finnegan]

There's a difference between changing what your party is, your party's politics and what it stands for - and changing it's outward image.

Ok bad analogy time. Masterfood recently, temporarily changed the name of their flagship product to Believe in response to the commercial market's shifting greatly towards football. The bar itself was still made up of the same ingredients and people still, really, knew what they were getting. But the change drew attention to the product and people stopped and went "Oh, what's that?" This was, obviously, a marketing ploy.

Plaid's reshuffle is much the same thing, the party, its ethics and its beliefs are still largely the same - they're still the same politicians - but what they've done is, essentially, a marketing ploy to make people stop and look at what they actually BELIEVE, beyond Welsh separation from the United Kingdom.