crazy horse Posted 6 August 2006 Posted 6 August 2006 when are fairy story believers going to grow up and realise there are no santa claus no fairies no leprecauns no feathered serpants no zeus et al; on the top of olympus no other mythical monsters that have control over our lives and no GODS the phases of the planets do not control our lives no one can see into the future by ANY chicken entrail/tea leaves/crystal ball methods its all B*LL*CKS JUST THINK ABOUT IT FOR 2 MINUTES there are or have been hundreds if not thousands of religions ; they are mostly incongruous with each other and therefore an adherents chosen religion being true is mathmatically unlikely as only one can possibly be the truth .............therefore it's most likely that they are all untrue ancient greeks in their time believed in zeus and the gods of olympia ; and in their MINDS it was true but it didn't make it true in REALITY as all gods are .............just real in the minds of gullible adherents we can be masters ( or if you prefer ,servants ) of our own destinies ............ .............why have i wasted time typing this out when its not religion that's the problem it's the gullibility of the masses and for that there is no cure
Thracian Posted 6 August 2006 Author Posted 6 August 2006 woah!alright im new here didnt expect to read a post like this. but im a muslim and felt obliged to answer. regardless of the current impression.the religion i have grown up with and love IS a peaceful religion. terrorism acts such as 9/11 and 7/7 are not in ne way justified. on the issue asked id like to quote a great muslim leader who fought against the crusade.on his succesful gain of jerusalem the leader of the muslim(admired by many not for his military nouce but his compassion and tolerance)SALAHUDIN-he said "this is a muslim country,BUT any person has a right and freedom to practice ne religion and way of life as they believe" this promise was kept through out his reign. the point i am trying ti make-it is not for a muslim person to decide the religion the world should follow AND it is not for a muslim person to "punish" those within or outside faith who choose not to follow it. the singh-u state u have read the holy quraan and hadiths and have understood (i note u point out u may be wrong)it.to understand the more complex teachings for example shariah law,the right and wrong of jihad etc.it takes a muslim scholar (known as alim(male) and alima(female)) a minimum of 5 years of studying and may years of practice to understand. it to apply and make a law in shariah law a cleric(known as a mufti)many more years.u talk about the prophet (S.A.W) having a life which wasnt free of violence.the prophet preached peace.yes within his time there where wars fought-the muslim always in defence.when the muslim of the time were forced out of mecca to medina the leaders of mecca called for the slaughter of all muslim due to the increase of converts to islam.the muslim never advance they stood there ground to protect there women and children and elderly.they fought in DEFENCE.again when the muslims were victorious and returned to mecca the non-muslim feared that due to there treatment of the muslims they would suffer.when the muslims entered mecca it was annouced every person was safe.A PROMISE WHICH WAS KEPT! muslims are not allowed to impose their beliefs on others or revenge ne injustices we might have suffered- that is Allahs job to decide what is right or wrong.we should not force our religion on others-as muslims believe islam is a gift-u cant impose a gift which is not urs to give.if u get what i mean. as another member has posted a english quran can be valuable-and on the complex issue a opinion of a good muslim teacher can help-in leicester we are lucky to have a lot.also a movie i would recommend is The Message-a story on the begining of islam-teaches alot on the basics of islam. (sorry iv gone on abit!) That is the second or third time I've read about Islam being a Peaceful religion and set against my own modest reding on the subject that was also the impression I got. So why have so many fanatical clerics and reactionaries been allowed to blacken the name of Islam and to cause all Muslims - once broadly viewed as people of dignity and faith - with so much suspicious and discomfort. There are many in the West who disagree with much of what has happened in Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine etc but we will never understand human beings slitting the throads of women charity workers or beheading non combatants, nor indeed the viciousness of so many actions taken in the name of Islam. And we we never understand the rancid preaching of hatred by clerics. We have had our own such people in the past and decent people didn't understand those either though they might have been fearful of their power.
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 6 August 2006 Posted 6 August 2006 when are fairy story believers going to grow up and realise there are no santa claus no fairies no leprecauns no feathered serpants no zeus et al; on the top of olympus no other mythical monsters that have control over our lives and no GODS the phases of the planets do not control our lives no one can see into the future by ANY chicken entrail/tea leaves/crystal ball methods its all B*LL*CKS JUST THINK ABOUT IT FOR 2 MINUTES there are or have been hundreds if not thousands of religions ; they are mostly incongruous with each other and therefore an adherents chosen religion being true is mathmatically unlikely as only one can possibly be the truth .............therefore it's most likely that they are all untrue ancient greeks in their time believed in zeus and the gods of olympia ; and in their MINDS it was true but it didn't make it true in REALITY as all gods are .............just real in the minds of gullible adherents we can be masters ( or if you prefer ,servants ) of our own destinies ............ .............why have i wasted time typing this out when its not religion that's the problem it's the gullibility of the masses and for that there is no cure And where's your proof, dipstick? At least we have a few thousand years of doctrine and experience to back us up, all you've got is about 10 years and a chip on your shoulder.
macbeth Posted 6 August 2006 Posted 6 August 2006 when are fairy story believers going to grow up and realise there are no santa claus no fairies no leprecauns no feathered serpants no zeus et al; on the top of olympus no other mythical monsters that have control over our lives and no GODS the phases of the planets do not control our lives no one can see into the future by ANY chicken entrail/tea leaves/crystal ball methods its all B*LL*CKS JUST THINK ABOUT IT FOR 2 MINUTES there are or have been hundreds if not thousands of religions ; they are mostly incongruous with each other and therefore an adherents chosen religion being true is mathmatically unlikely as only one can possibly be the truth .............therefore it's most likely that they are all untrue ancient greeks in their time believed in zeus and the gods of olympia ; and in their MINDS it was true but it didn't make it true in REALITY as all gods are .............just real in the minds of gullible adherents we can be masters ( or if you prefer ,servants ) of our own destinies ............ .............why have i wasted time typing this out when its not religion that's the problem it's the gullibility of the masses and for that there is no cure you may have wasted your time .........the "your god ain't as good as mine" debate will continue unabated for a long time yet .......... but nice try.....
macbeth Posted 6 August 2006 Posted 6 August 2006 And where's your proof, dipstick? At least we have a few thousand years of doctrine and experience to back us up, all you've got is about 10 years and a chip on your shoulder. where's yours ................how can anyone prove a negative ?
macbeth Posted 6 August 2006 Posted 6 August 2006 And where's your proof, dipstick? At least we have a few thousand years of doctrine and experience to back us up, all you've got is about 10 years and a chip on your shoulder. the ancient egyptians /babylonians /greeks ...................they all had thousands of years of doctrine/ heiroglyphs as "evidence".............or is it just your evidence thats true you gullible oaf
crazy horse Posted 6 August 2006 Posted 6 August 2006 And where's your proof, dipstick? At least we have a few thousand years of doctrine and experience to back us up, all you've got is about 10 years and a chip on your shoulder. typically stupid response from a gullible believer.............where's the proof that fairies don't exist........wheres the proof that anything doesn't exist; if it exists in someones mind just ask yourself if you would have believed in zeus if you had lived in ancient greece ..........my guess is that you would have..................however the fact is you would have believed in a big fat lie!!
Dr The Singh Posted 6 August 2006 Posted 6 August 2006 woah!alright im new here didnt expect to read a post like this. but im a muslim and felt obliged to answer. regardless of the current impression.the religion i have grown up with and love IS a peaceful religion. terrorism acts such as 9/11 and 7/7 are not in ne way justified. on the issue asked id like to quote a great muslim leader who fought against the crusade.on his succesful gain of jerusalem the leader of the muslim(admired by many not for his military nouce but his compassion and tolerance)SALAHUDIN-he said "this is a muslim country,BUT any person has a right and freedom to practice ne religion and way of life as they believe" this promise was kept through out his reign. the point i am trying ti make-it is not for a muslim person to decide the religion the world should follow AND it is not for a muslim person to "punish" those within or outside faith who choose not to follow it. the singh-u state u have read the holy quraan and hadiths and have understood (i note u point out u may be wrong)it.to understand the more complex teachings for example shariah law,the right and wrong of jihad etc.it takes a muslim scholar (known as alim(male) and alima(female)) a minimum of 5 years of studying and may years of practice to understand. it to apply and make a law in shariah law a cleric(known as a mufti)many more years.u talk about the prophet (S.A.W) having a life which wasnt free of violence.the prophet preached peace.yes within his time there where wars fought-the muslim always in defence.when the muslim of the time were forced out of mecca to medina the leaders of mecca called for the slaughter of all muslim due to the increase of converts to islam.the muslim never advance they stood there ground to protect there women and children and elderly.they fought in DEFENCE.again when the muslims were victorious and returned to mecca the non-muslim feared that due to there treatment of the muslims they would suffer.when the muslims entered mecca it was annouced every person was safe.A PROMISE WHICH WAS KEPT! muslims are not allowed to impose their beliefs on others or revenge ne injustices we might have suffered- that is Allahs job to decide what is right or wrong.we should not force our religion on others-as muslims believe islam is a gift-u cant impose a gift which is not urs to give.if u get what i mean. as another member has posted a english quran can be valuable-and on the complex issue a opinion of a good muslim teacher can help-in leicester we are lucky to have a lot.also a movie i would recommend is The Message-a story on the begining of islam-teaches alot on the basics of islam. (sorry iv gone on abit!) I claim not to be a scholar or expert on anything and I do aplogise if i offend, I find mohammed a fascinating and entertaining person.........I post an opinion on sources and studies that I have read. I read alot about religions only on there historical facts not of those that like to superhumanise. As you know the quran\mohammed etc has been open for discussion since the prophets death and interpretation is always the key. I could post sura after sura on many issues eg apotasy and death, but I suggest anyone wanting to read the quran to also read the biography of mohammed, as the quran is not chronicolgically ordered his biography will give insight as to when and why such was 'given' do not trust the commenteries of the translators of the quran(ue yousseff ali) as I find them abit bias and miss essential historical fact out. Also one must also understand the quran as a written text was not authenticated or put together by mohammed, it was put toghether about 12 years (not sure, can't remember) after his death but some have said to know it off by heart, one must also understand that the sura's were never catalogued or logged, sura's were spread at homes of others on pieces of paper and even twigs!!! Yes, mohammed did suffer during hejra period (prior to medina), and most of his Surah's were of love and compassion and his followers few but after hejra and the rise of mohammeds power the sura's alot were vengeful and of political nature etc. I disagree that they ONLY fought out of defence, but again I have read various interpretations of his conquest all of which agree that on many occassions slaves were taken as booty and on one battle he even raided on the first day of rajab (nakhla raid)which is forbidden, not exactly in self defence is it fighting an enemy against the rules??????? I apologise if I have offended anyone or have interpretated incorrectly...i'm not anti muslim, in fact I find mohammed to be a revolutionary he did wonders for th arab world, even though i do not agree with alot he did or preach he was still well ahead of his time!!!!
crazy horse Posted 6 August 2006 Posted 6 August 2006 The value of human life In the West, at least in constitution terms, however inadequately outworked in practice in some places, the equality of human beings is a fundamental assumption – 'all men are equal before the law'. For this reason, Justice is often depicted in statues as blindfolded; the class, religion or race of anyone is irrelevant – the law, at least in terms of its goal, applies equally to everyone, and safeguards everyone equally. In Islamic law, however, this is simply not the case. The life of a Muslim is considered superior to that of a non-Muslim, so much so that whilst a non-Muslim killing a Muslim would be executed, the reverse would not occur. [5] This is despite the fact that murder is normally considered a capital offence in Islam, with regular executions in most Muslim states. This inequity is also demonstrable in the blood rate paid to non-Muslims where murder or injury has occurred, which is half that of a Muslim. [6] Effectively, this ruling means that a Muslim need not fear the usual retribution for murder if he kills a non-Muslim. The law deliberately and consciously does not protect non-Muslims as it does Muslims. The position of Islamic law is not that human life is sacred, but that Muslim life is so. Most Western constitutions today guarantee complete religious liberty, in opinion, practice and propagation. A person is perfectly free to hold or change his opinions, or even hold no religious opinions whatsoever. Under Islamic law, however, this is not the case. Whilst a person may be free to be a Muslim, Jew, Christian or Zoroastrian, he may not hold other religious opinions, as the ban on paganism illustrates. [13] Moreover, whilst a non-Muslim may change his religion to Islam or one other 'Scriptuary' faith, a Muslim who converts from Islam faces execution. [14] It follows from this that Christians are forbidden to proselytise Muslims, though no such reciprocal ban exists on Muslims. This also affects marriages, since if a Muslim apostatises, the marriage is dissolved, and there is at least one recent example of this in Egypt, where a liberal Muslim was declared apostate by a court, and his marriage dissolved, necessitating the couple's removal to the West, illustrating that the ruling is not merely theoretical. [15] Most blatantly, whilst the post-war era, especially since the 1970s, have seen an energetic upsurge of mosque construction in the West, there has been no corresponding development in Christian religious buildings in the Muslim world, since Islamic law permits only the repair of existing buildings, forbidding the construction of new ones. [16] The same ruling forbids any Christian presence whatsoever in the Arabian peninsula, so we can see the anomaly that whereas the Saudis recently constructed a giant mosque in Rome, there is no possibility of reciprocity for the Roman Catholics (or anyone else) to build even the smallest chapel in Saudi Arabia. The issue is not simply one of reciprocity; national Christians in the Muslim world are denied this right as well, whereas Muslims may freely construct mosques Only by the wildest stretch of the imagination could the situation of non-Muslims under Islamic law be seen as one conferring equal citizenship, whatever Muslim apologists claim. Similarly, only a leap of fantasy could ever believe that such a situation is one that non-Muslims would welcome. The honour, dignity, equality and even the lives of non-Muslims are by no means guaranteed under Islamic law. The Jizyah tax in particular demonstrates the constitutional inferiority and humiliation such a legal arrangement confers. For non-Muslims, it is rather like permanently walking under the sword of Damocles, ready to fall at any moment. If Muslims wish Christians and others to regard an Islamic political order as something attractive, their scholars had best engage in a some heavy work of ijtihad to revise those elements of Islamic jurisprudence and legislation which are particularly offensive to non-Muslims
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 6 August 2006 Posted 6 August 2006 the ancient egyptians /babylonians /greeks ...................they all had thousands of years of doctrine/ heiroglyphs as "evidence".............or is it just your evidence thats true you gullible oaf ...and the tradition lives on. Since the dawn of time people have developed corporeal methods to administer the spiritual. The methods and traditions change over time but the idea remains the same. I really don't see the point in pretending the wider picture doesn't exist because you don't like the shape of the canvas.
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 6 August 2006 Posted 6 August 2006 typically stupid response from a gullible believer.............where's the proof that fairies don't exist........wheres the proof that anything doesn't exist; if it exists in someones mind just ask yourself if you would have believed in zeus if you had lived in ancient greece ..........my guess is that you would have..................however the fact is you would have believed in a big fat lie!! I suspect that since you have a problem structuring sentences, it's unlikely that you can structure your brain to administer methods of perceiving a higher order of consciousness. Really, a period has three dots, not seventeen. Again with that word 'gullible.' It seems that you're another one with a problem with the belief structure as opposed to the bigger picture, something that shouldn't really bother you if you don't care. That means you've jumped on the 'protesting about something you don't understand and hence shouldn't really give a toss about' tree hugger bandwagon, chump! All aboard!
Suffolk_fox Posted 6 August 2006 Posted 6 August 2006 I have a 'live and let live' attitude towards other people and religions. I believe in God as something, I don't understand what he/she/it is but I believe that my relationship with him/her/it is personal and doesn't need someone else to tell me how to have that relationship. This includes going to church, although I will sometimes go there to celebrate a religious festival but I am not am I ever likely to be a regular church goer. I don't force my views on other people, and I don't expect others to pander to my religious needs. This also means that when I am in Muslim countries, I will act as if I am at home ie show my wife physical affection, eat with both hands etc. After all, I am not a Muslim. Live and let live - they do what they wanna do, I do what I wanna do...
Tomassi Posted 6 August 2006 Posted 6 August 2006 at the end of the day, people do what they want to do in terms of religion. yes some are born into it, some are converted, some are athiests. As long as we are all personally happy with our individual lifes who cares what tim bob and sue thinks? I am friends with Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Jehovah Witnesses. I treat them all equally, i can have a laugh with anyone. The fact that people are of different religious doesn't bother me, with the same terms of racial backgrounds, disabled backgrounds etc. as Bill and Ted once said... BE EXCELLENT FOR ONE ANOTHER
Daggers Posted 6 August 2006 Posted 6 August 2006 BE EXCELLENT FOR ONE ANOTHER Ted: Now your dad's actually going for it in your room. Bill: Shut up, Ted. Ted: Your step-mom is cute, though. Bill: Shut up, Ted! Ted: Remember when I asked her to the prom? Bill: [shouts] Shut up, Ted!
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 7 August 2006 Posted 7 August 2006 I have a 'live and let live' attitude towards other people and religions. I believe in God as something, I don't understand what he/she/it is but I believe that my relationship with him/her/it is personal and doesn't need someone else to tell me how to have that relationship. You've hit the pin on the head - your statement is the epitome of religion, or should be anyhow - that people's personal and individual perceptions of whoever/whatever the supreme he/she/it is, is really a subjective matter.
Dr The Singh Posted 7 August 2006 Posted 7 August 2006 You've hit the pin on the head - your statement is the epitome of religion, or should be anyhow - that people's personal and individual perceptions of whoever/whatever the supreme he/she/it is, is really a subjective matter. Agreed, just because one may not agree or disagree with one or another, does not mean he or she is right or wrong, it's just an opinion. We all have chioces in life and religion should be one, whatever chioce one makes if any, aslong as they are content and happy with there chioce who gives a damn!!!
macbeth Posted 7 August 2006 Posted 7 August 2006 most of the last posts have all agreed that religions "should" be tolerant and that we "should" all respect each others beliefs yeah right!! history and the present is littered with religious tolerance
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 7 August 2006 Posted 7 August 2006 most of the last posts have all agreed that religions "should" be tolerant and that we "should" all respect each others beliefs yeah right!! history and the present is littered with religious tolerance I think you'll find history littered with all sorts of atrocities, which is why it's so important that the message of tolerance and respect is spread and practised here and now.
macbeth Posted 7 August 2006 Posted 7 August 2006 I think you'll find history littered with all sorts of atrocities, which is why it's so important that the message of tolerance and respect is spread and practised here and now. tree hugger is a term of respect is it, devil dodger?
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 7 August 2006 Posted 7 August 2006 tree hugger is a term of respect is it, devil dodger? About as respectful as summarising doctrine as fairy stories, really.
davieG Posted 7 August 2006 Posted 7 August 2006 About as respectful as summarising doctrine as fairy stories, really. The micro vision of disrespect and intolerance, if someone can't make the first move towards some humility at this level what chance has the world got with bigger issues?
macbeth Posted 7 August 2006 Posted 7 August 2006 About as respectful as summarising doctrine as fairy stories, really. Point taken but i always thought you lot could turn the other cheek and suffer all the insults etc that we lesser heretics weren't capable of doing.
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 7 August 2006 Posted 7 August 2006 Point taken but i always thought you lot could turn the other cheek and suffer all the insults etc that we lesser heretics weren't capable of doing. It's all subjective! I prefer to start a shit fight
macbeth Posted 7 August 2006 Posted 7 August 2006 It's all subjective! I prefer to start a shit fight cow pats at dawn then , your patch or mine?
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 7 August 2006 Posted 7 August 2006 cow pats at dawn then , your patch or mine? Does home ground advantage apply? Perhaps we could make it really classy by combining sticks at dawn with cow pats, and have a 'shit slinging' match
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