Thracian Posted 4 August 2006 Posted 4 August 2006 I just wondered what Moseeds and Ultra thought of this - quite apart from the forum in general. According to Yahoo News today: "About a 1,000 South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan amid rumours they sought Christian converts in this Muslim country prepared to depart Friday. Their spokesman denied that was their intention." Irrepective of whether converting Muslims to Christianity was their aim would you say it was not totally wrong then that Muslims should seek to convert Christians to their faith in this land and in other "non-Muslim" places? Or is it another example of Muslims slowly seeking to impose their religion on everyone bearing in mind Muslims cannot reject their faith and their children cannot be brought up as non-Muslims. Everything about the Muslim philosophy seems to be about conceding nothing but making inroads wherever possible. Am I wrong?. If the religion is so strong and worthy, why does it take away so many freedoms from people and, in particular, their freedom of choice?
Ultra Posted 4 August 2006 Posted 4 August 2006 The story seems a little weird. What WERE the Koreans doing in Afghanistan? It's not exactly renowned as a tourist hotspot. Could they have been Moonies? Or did they have their eye on a share of the drugs trade? Whatever their motive, the Afghan government, which of course is pro-western, is perfectly within its right to deport them if it considers it necessary for the public good. The task of governing that country is difficult enough as it is without outside sects seeking to complicate matters still further. I don't think this episode should be used to make wild generalisations about the behaviour of Muslims in general.
Daggers Posted 4 August 2006 Posted 4 August 2006 If a tree falls to the ground when there are no people to see it happen, do the other trees laugh at it?
macbeth Posted 4 August 2006 Posted 4 August 2006 If a tree falls to the ground when there are no people to see it happen, do the other trees laugh at it? if i'm alone in a forest and my wife is not there to hear me ; am i still wrong
Daggers Posted 4 August 2006 Posted 4 August 2006 if i'm alone in a forest and my wife is not there to hear me ; am i still wrong If in doubt, check your genes
Thracian Posted 4 August 2006 Author Posted 4 August 2006 The story seems a little weird. What WERE the Koreans doing in Afghanistan? It's not exactly renowned as a tourist hotspot. Could they have been Moonies? Or did they have their eye on a share of the drugs trade? Whatever their motive, the Afghan government, which of course is pro-western, is perfectly within its right to deport them if it considers it necessary for the public good. The task of governing that country is difficult enough as it is without outside sects seeking to complicate matters still further. I don't think this episode should be used to make wild generalisations about the behaviour of Muslims in general. It matters not what their motives were. That is what the Government said. The incident simply focused attention on the question about whether Christians should be welcome to canvass for converts in Muslim lands and if not, why should it be right that Muslims seek converts in Western countries?. Also the question about why such a supposedly strong and worthy religion should deny choice to their followers anyway.
Daggers Posted 4 August 2006 Posted 4 August 2006 And for those of you that have found the questions posed stimulating enough to find out more about how to become a Muslim: Muslim Converts.com How To Become A Muslim Discover Islam
billabob Posted 4 August 2006 Posted 4 August 2006 The story seems a little weird. What WERE the Koreans doing in Afghanistan? It's not exactly renowned as a tourist hotspot. Could they have been Moonies? Or did they have their eye on a share of the drugs trade? Whatever their motive, the Afghan government, which of course is pro-western, is perfectly within its right to deport them if it considers it necessary for the public good. The task of governing that country is difficult enough as it is without outside sects seeking to complicate matters still further. I don't think this episode should be used to make wild generalisations about the behaviour of Muslims in general. he he he i love those guys! mr leader man says iv got some tablets that tell me i can have lots of wives thus sex and people belive him o wait.................................wow iv just got some scripts that say im king of this forum now so worship me as your idol mhwa ha ha ha ha
Daggers Posted 4 August 2006 Posted 4 August 2006 im king of this forum now so worship me as your idol mhwa ha ha ha ha Oh hail Billabob, sovereign my sovereign
billabob Posted 4 August 2006 Posted 4 August 2006 Oh hail Billabob, sovereign my sovereign Why thank you, as first to hail me, i declare you safe from all evil for the next 60 seconds
billabob Posted 4 August 2006 Posted 4 August 2006 Just a thought but Jehovah's witness belive that there are 144,000 places in heaven to make things simple and tht just 8,500 that are alive now that ill make it into heaven, so whats the point of all those who don't belive it then, as when they die, they belive thats it, bizare! sorry if any offence is caused but it confuses me! (wikipedia also backs me up!)
Daggers Posted 4 August 2006 Posted 4 August 2006 Dammit. The time ran out before I trapped my manhood in the door.
billabob Posted 4 August 2006 Posted 4 August 2006 Dammit. The time ran out before I trapped my manhood in the door.
shez Posted 4 August 2006 Posted 4 August 2006 I dont normally like getting involved in these types of issues....but Thracian you seem to have a lot of knowledge and obvioulsy do a lot of reading! I wonder if you have ever the read the Quran the muslim holy book and maybe your views on Muslims and Islam may change, because you seem to think that islam is a very forcefull religion for its believers and your also seem to think that its a religion of hatred and war....infact its the opposite...I know what your going to say....Israel/Lebonan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestime....and to the lay person it would seem that islam is about war and fighting however all these problems are nothing to do with religion....Iraq was to do with America wanting rid of weapons mass destruction (WHERE WERE THEY?) Isreal is to do with illegal land they stole! I can assure you muslim people are not forced into practicing its a choice.....Muslim ladies that where the headscarf its not by force....Its just too many people in this country are uneducated and chose to read the SUN a complete antiislamic paper and is so going to publish anti islamic articles and will exagerate misconceptions about islam! Back to my point if you read the quran and understand it you will see that islam is neither a religion of war or hatred....Islam teaches the best principles and teaches a way of life which is easy to follow....if islam is followed properly we would not have the current problems we have now.....
Dr The Singh Posted 5 August 2006 Posted 5 August 2006 I dont normally like getting involved in these types of issues....but Thracian you seem to have a lot of knowledge and obvioulsy do a lot of reading! I wonder if you have ever the read the Quran the muslim holy book and maybe your views on Muslims and Islam may change, because you seem to think that islam is a very forcefull religion for its believers and your also seem to think that its a religion of hatred and war....infact its the opposite...I know what your going to say....Israel/Lebonan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestime....and to the lay person it would seem that islam is about war and fighting however all these problems are nothing to do with religion....Iraq was to do with America wanting rid of weapons mass destruction (WHERE WERE THEY?) Isreal is to do with illegal land they stole! I can assure you muslim people are not forced into practicing its a choice.....Muslim ladies that where the headscarf its not by force....Its just too many people in this country are uneducated and chose to read the SUN a complete antiislamic paper and is so going to publish anti islamic articles and will exagerate misconceptions about islam! Back to my point if you read the quran and understand it you will see that islam is neither a religion of war or hatred....Islam teaches the best principles and teaches a way of life which is easy to follow....if islam is followed properly we would not have the current problems we have now..... I have read the quran, again I have read hadiths and sunahs all of which I find intrigiung in how they can be translated but from what I have read, apostasy from Islam is agreed by majority of scolars is death, a few surahs do not mention death but many do: I may be wrong, but in many Islamic countries apostasy is still treated with death!! Again, I have read many interpretations of mohammeds life\faith and many would say it is not peaceful as you may suggest, again it's is only interpretation an issue wchich Islam has!!!
Thracian Posted 5 August 2006 Author Posted 5 August 2006 I dont normally like getting involved in these types of issues....but Thracian you seem to have a lot of knowledge and obvioulsy do a lot of reading! I wonder if you have ever the read the Quran the muslim holy book and maybe your views on Muslims and Islam may change, because you seem to think that islam is a very forcefull religion for its believers and your also seem to think that its a religion of hatred and war....infact its the opposite...I know what your going to say....Israel/Lebonan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestime....and to the lay person it would seem that islam is about war and fighting however all these problems are nothing to do with religion....Iraq was to do with America wanting rid of weapons mass destruction (WHERE WERE THEY?) Isreal is to do with illegal land they stole! I can assure you muslim people are not forced into practicing its a choice.....Muslim ladies that where the headscarf its not by force....Its just too many people in this country are uneducated and chose to read the SUN a complete antiislamic paper and is so going to publish anti islamic articles and will exagerate misconceptions about islam! Back to my point if you read the quran and understand it you will see that islam is neither a religion of war or hatred....Islam teaches the best principles and teaches a way of life which is easy to follow....if islam is followed properly we would not have the current problems we have now..... If someone want to leave a quotable English translation of the Quran for me to pick up at the Swan and Rushes before Tuesday's game then I'll happily read it and return it. But a few comments in the meantime. Many people in this country may be uneducated - I often wonder about the Prime Minister and his cronies - but I don't read the Sun so my chances of being misinformed from that quarter are non-existent. I would wonder, however, if you are ever influenced by Arab broadcasting organisations and publications which are no less biased than the Sun. Propaganda knows no borders. Secondly I have always believed the Quran to stand for peace rather than War or hatred which makes those Muslims - and especially those manipulative zealot clerics who confound that message, to be sinful beyond understanding. Sadly doctrines the world over are manipulated by men for their own ends. Finally while fully accepting your sincerity, you talk about Islam teaching the "best principles" and offering "choice". And yet I am told that no Muslim can reject his religion, that no Muslim may bring up his children as non-Muslims even though his wife were of some other faith. And I say if the faith is pure and worthy it should not need enforcement of such matters but should remain strong while offering unambiguous freedom. The "best principles" to me never include forcing people to do anything. If a person is unhappy with his faith he should be free to explore his concerns. If God is "merciful" he would understand exactly as he would understand children having a Christian or Hindu upbringing rather than that of a Muslim. Unless you believe Paradise is the solely reserved for Muslims. There are many other questions I would ask but I would truly like to read the book first.
Gamesmaster Posted 5 August 2006 Posted 5 August 2006 Muslims are good for kebob n chips target practice for blair n bush Religionists may correct me here, but isnt islam, alien to western civilisation in regards sharia law? Women have to walk around like yes, not all muslim women adhere to islam, they arnt true islamists. Can you imagine sharia law, and your gran walking around like that be worse than the hoodies
long live the blues Posted 5 August 2006 Posted 5 August 2006 woah!alright im new here didnt expect to read a post like this. but im a muslim and felt obliged to answer. regardless of the current impression.the religion i have grown up with and love IS a peaceful religion. terrorism acts such as 9/11 and 7/7 are not in ne way justified. on the issue asked id like to quote a great muslim leader who fought against the crusade.on his succesful gain of jerusalem the leader of the muslim(admired by many not for his military nouce but his compassion and tolerance)SALAHUDIN-he said "this is a muslim country,BUT any person has a right and freedom to practice ne religion and way of life as they believe" this promise was kept through out his reign. the point i am trying ti make-it is not for a muslim person to decide the religion the world should follow AND it is not for a muslim person to "punish" those within or outside faith who choose not to follow it. the singh-u state u have read the holy quraan and hadiths and have understood (i note u point out u may be wrong)it.to understand the more complex teachings for example shariah law,the right and wrong of jihad etc.it takes a muslim scholar (known as alim(male) and alima(female)) a minimum of 5 years of studying and may years of practice to understand. it to apply and make a law in shariah law a cleric(known as a mufti)many more years.u talk about the prophet (S.A.W) having a life which wasnt free of violence.the prophet preached peace.yes within his time there where wars fought-the muslim always in defence.when the muslim of the time were forced out of mecca to medina the leaders of mecca called for the slaughter of all muslim due to the increase of converts to islam.the muslim never advance they stood there ground to protect there women and children and elderly.they fought in DEFENCE.again when the muslims were victorious and returned to mecca the non-muslim feared that due to there treatment of the muslims they would suffer.when the muslims entered mecca it was annouced every person was safe.A PROMISE WHICH WAS KEPT! muslims are not allowed to impose their beliefs on others or revenge ne injustices we might have suffered- that is Allahs job to decide what is right or wrong.we should not force our religion on others-as muslims believe islam is a gift-u cant impose a gift which is not urs to give.if u get what i mean. as another member has posted a english quran can be valuable-and on the complex issue a opinion of a good muslim teacher can help-in leicester we are lucky to have a lot.also a movie i would recommend is The Message-a story on the begining of islam-teaches alot on the basics of islam. (sorry iv gone on abit!)
Gamesmaster Posted 6 August 2006 Posted 6 August 2006 the point i am trying ti make-it is not for a muslim person to decide the religion the world should follow AND it is not for a muslim person to "punish" those within or outside faith who choose not to follow it. i think the thread publisher is saying islam wants to convert non muslims, not "moderate" muslims like you. it to apply and make a law in shariah law a cleric(known as a mufti)many more years. in England, its nufti muslims are not allowed to impose their beliefs on others or revenge ne injustices we might have suffered-that is Allahs job to decide what is right or wrong.we should not force our religion on others-as muslims believe islam is a gift-u cant impose a gift which is not urs to give.if u get what i mean. In the north of England, the police are aware of "fully fledged islamists" who go around raping underage girls, getting them pregnant, the baby then becomes a muslim, because the child is often not wanted by its non muslim family. Some parents have started a peadophille group to help protect young vunerable girls, who are often encouraged by gifts, usually alcahol and cigs. Indeed, wasn't the prohet mohammed a peadophile, didnt he have a nine year old girlfriend/wife? http://www.lancashireeveningtelegraph.co.u...med_for_sex.php Also, muslims are converting non muslim prisoners to fight the "holy war". http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1072-1713671,00.html (sorry iv gone on abit!) Thats alright, i may have done the same whilst fairly drunk *hicup*
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 6 August 2006 Posted 6 August 2006 regardless of the current impression.the religion i have grown up with and love IS a peaceful religion. Indeed. It's not the true adherents to Islam that are the problem - it's the ones that take what is written to justify murder and alienation, including a number of state governments in the middle east. In terms of a conservative application of the doctrine, remember that Islam is only a couple of hundred years behind Christianity. Widely secular governments have risen in the West who leave the religions to their own supporters and practitioners, and make decisions based on what they think is best for the country, and not on how they interpret the state religion. Problem is, for this to happen in the middle east, the citizens need to change also. It won't happen as long as people of different beliefs are being bombarded with messages of secular hate. Have a look at Iraq - the caretaker secular government wasn't elected in favour of a Shi'ite one. Noted of course that Muslims haven't had quite so bad experiences under religious governments like westerners have had - quite the contrary, they've had many prosperous years under them. But even the current actions of some of those governments in the middle east aren't being perceived as wrong by the citizens, which they should be if any change is going to come about.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.