Can we still go down?

[Geo V]

This is the most worrying part I think. The current form we are on is a complete joke, and if it continues, well then frankly we deserve to be relegated. As you touched on, there is a massive chance we can still plummet further, considering we've still got to play Stoke, Derby, Birmingham, Preston and Wolves. Also, we've got to go away ( ) to a Barnsley team who have improved in recent weeks, play a Norwich team who will always be a handful and go down to Plymouth as well. If we don't act quickly, we're fuc.ked.

What, proper fu cked?!

[lcfc_jme]

What, proper fu cked?!

Indeed!

[Geo V]

Indeed!

When I started this thread, I had the energy to work out how many points each club will gain before the season ended and compile a table but as I wrote down each teams fixtures and started to realise that we have some difficult ones and then pictured players like AJ and Horsfield trotting around the park, all the enthusiasm in my turned into depression. I am not on Prozac yet but it cant be long before I am forced down that road.

BTW, has RK hit his 15 point target yet? I know we started well but......

[lcfc_jme]

BTW, has RK hit his 15 point target yet? I know we started well but......

I believe Kelly set us a 16 point target with 16 games left?

If Kelly set the points target before the Luton game at home (I can't remember exactly when he set it), then we are on 13 points - just 3 away from what he was asking. It's 12 points if he set it after that game. Not far from it, but talk about making hard work of something that we should have easily achieved by now (considering we've played a few teams below us and won at least 3 games)!!

[Geo V]

I believe Kelly set us a 16 point target with 16 games left?

If Kelly set the points target before the Luton game at home (I can't remember exactly when he set it), then we are on 13 points - just 3 away from what he was asking. It's 12 points if he set it after that game. Not far from it, but talk about making hard work of something that we should have easily achieved by now (considering we've played a few teams below us and won at least 3 games)!!

What a visionary the bloke is. He knew we would take points early and it was all going to go Russell Grant shaped later. I hope he stays on as manager now!

[Joe.]

We're not going down don't worry...

[lcfc_jme]

What a visionary the bloke is. He knew we would take points early and it was all going to go Russell Grant shaped later. I hope he stays on as manager now!

Oh piss off!! Knew we would take points early on? Away at Ipswich and Burnley? No fooking way! Kelly is unambitious and tactically incapable of finishing above 15th in this league. Kelly OUT!!

[Geo V]

Oh piss off!! Knew we would take points early on? Away at Ipswich and Burnley? No fooking way! Kelly is unambitious and tactically incapable of finishing above 15th in this league. Kelly OUT!!

From herein we should all call him Sir Kelly of Visionarysville! What an amazing bloke he is. KELLY IN, KELLY IN.

PMSL!

[Bryn]

For me the fact that we are 7 points ahead of the relegation zone and not 6 is comforting. I think the teams down there can make 6 points up on us but not 7, its like them needing an extra draw or possibly even win. I think there are still points for us to take, I doubt we will lose every game until the end of the season and even if we do, I think we will still stay up.

Quite often, our team has got fired up for the bigger matches and played better against the bigger teams (ie West Brom, Fulham) than they have against the weaklings. So I fancy us to take a point or two from the bigger teams and hopefully pull their finger out for the smaller teams.

[DanTheFoxBhoy]

Can't see how that summary means much.

Other teams have equally as tough fixtures.

[Geo V]

Can't see how that summary means much.

Other teams have equally as tough fixtures.

It says plenty to me! We have arguably come out of a run of a few games that on paper would be seen as point getters but our lack of form is a worry when it comes to these fixtures because we couldnt beat cack like Leeds and QPR, two of the then bottom 3. Some of the clubs near the bottom will be scarping for there lives and have shown decent form whilst our mob look like they can put there feet up and relax. Im not convinced our lads have the stomach for it as at the moment we have more than half our team either on loan, already transferred out or awaiting a Bosman. That doesnt sound too good for us when we want commited players to fight.....

[Thracian]

It says plenty to me! We have arguably come out of a run of a few games that on paper would be seen as point getters but our lack of form is a worry when it comes to these fixtures because we couldnt beat cack like Leeds and QPR, two of the then bottom 3. Some of the clubs near the bottom will be scarping for there lives and have shown decent form whilst our mob look like they can put there feet up and relax. Im not convinced our lads have the stomach for it as at the moment we have more than half our team either on loan, already transferred out or awaiting a Bosman. That doesnt sound too good for us when we want commited players to fight.....

I don't know as I would ever have expected us to automatically beat Leeds or QPR this season - they would seem to have at least improved whereas we haven't.

But I agree with the rest. I always felt that so many loanees might affect our team spirit and motivation particularly if others, at the same time, perhaps feel that they don't really have a future here.

And what worries me most is that, even allowing for the inevitably differing opinion of fans, most people see us as having very few players who are potentially worthy of being retained.

Which means a potentially large number of discontents.

And that is not good at all when we need points.

I wonder if it is even possible now to select what is likely to be a fully motivated side although, truthfully, the players' professionalism should always demand that they give of their best.

My view is:

Henderson (motivated).

Maybury (questionable)

McAuley (motivated)

Kisnorbo (motivated)

Nils (motivated)

Newton (questionable)

Hughes (questionable)

Johnson (questionable)

Jarrett (questionable)

Tiatto (motivated)

Porter (motivated)

Wesolowski (motivated)

Stearman (questionable)

Kenton (questionable)

Yeates (questionable)

Hammond (motivated)

Hume (motivated)

Fryatt (I've no idea)

Horsfield (questionable)

Dodds (questionable if he returns)

King (motivated)

Logan (motivated)

[Geo V]

Too many of our lads dont care and thats my worry and thats one of the reasons why I started the thread.

As for beating QPR and Leeds at home, damn right we should be beating them as there form was shite! Football is about fine marginsg though and we could have easily been infront against QPR in the first half and the game would have been totally different and in the 2nd half against Leeds I thought we should have won. Anyway, we didnt and we are in a mess at the moment.

As for loanees, Ive championed them for a while but not a million years did I think that we would bring in this crap along with that short term deal for Cada. I should have seen it coming when players like Asaba turned up for training. At that point we should have twigged that we were getting pants players in. Loans that have worked were the ones that you would expect to work. The 3 Arsenal loanees down at Birmingham, Lupoli at Derby (from Arsenal), Jonny Evans to Sunderland (from Man Utd). Just look at the clubs where these lads have come from and the quality that they are. Also its no surprise that the clubs Ive mention currently occupy the top 3 places within our division. We get Glombard from Cardiff, Prestons Jarrett and the Horse FFS! Newton is arguably the best of the signings but he is hardly a spring chicken.

[Thracian]

Loanees are fine when you have a particular need due to unforeseen circumstances or if you feel the team needs a big boost and you can get someone special.

But loanees who are not even as good as the regularly signed alternatives are a disaster.

Imagine you are Dodds and you see someone like Horsfield come in and, his two goals apart, do absolutely nothing of consequence for eight games...

Or King watching Glombard or Jarrett take the place he might have had.

It's one thing if a genuine talent walks through the gate but to be kept out of a team by ordinary players who, for the most part don't even look fit, is a bloody insult and it won't endear Kelly to anyone.

[Geo V]

Loanees are fine when you have a particular need due to unforeseen circumstances or if you feel the team needs a big boost and you can get someone special.

But loanees who are not even as good as the regularly signed alternatives are a disaster.

Imagine you are Dodds and you see someone like Horsfield come in and, his two goals apart, do absolutely nothing of consequence for eight games...

Or King watching Glombard or Jarrett take the place he might have had.

It's one thing if a genuine talent walks through the gate but to be kept out of a team by ordinary players who, for the most part don't even look fit, is a bloody insult and it won't endear Kelly to anyone.

Many loan signings have become permanent so there is that part to the equation. Whilst I think that the players that RK bought in were shite, there is no denying the initial impact that the players had on the club as it was largely there influence that helped us move away from the relegation zone initially.

As for the kids, I agree about King being overlooked by Glombard in particular and worryingly RKs words that the club will be monitoring his situation (please god that doesnt mean we will sign him in the summer) but you cant have a pop at RK for bringing in a target man who has scored plenty of goals and say that Dodds deserved a place ahead of him. The best managers in the world nurture there academy kids and wouldnt dream of throwing an untried player straight into the melting pot of a relegation battle. Had we had another point or two NOW I`d have tried Dodds when the pressure was off or at the least, minimal. Players like Dodds should go the same way that many of the best strikers have gone during there careers, loan spells in the lower leagues first. Horsfield started well but went off the boil when he thought he had cracked it but the initial signing was right IMO.

[DanTheFoxBhoy]

Oh well, at least you haven't written anyone off as NOT motivated!

[Tevez]

I would loved to see Glombard Play

[Thracian]

Many loan signings have become permanent so there is that part to the equation. Whilst I think that the players that RK bought in were shite, there is no denying the initial impact that the players had on the club as it was largely there influence that helped us move away from the relegation zone initially.

As for the kids, I agree about King being overlooked by Glombard in particular and worryingly RKs words that the club will be monitoring his situation (please god that doesnt mean we will sign him in the summer) but you cant have a pop at RK for bringing in a target man who has scored plenty of goals and say that Dodds deserved a place ahead of him. The best managers in the world nurture there academy kids and wouldnt dream of throwing an untried player straight into the melting pot of a relegation battle. Had we had another point or two NOW I`d have tried Dodds when the pressure was off or at the least, minimal. Players like Dodds should go the same way that many of the best strikers have gone during there careers, loan spells in the lower leagues first. Horsfield started well but went off the boil when he thought he had cracked it but the initial signing was right IMO.

I wouldn't have played Dodds out of kindness or to bring on his career when the pressure was off. I've never been into nurturing anyone.

I'd have played him because he was the best option available and would have played him anytime against anyone because I'd have complete belief in him.

Sooner or later footballers have to play supposedly tough relegation battles. It might as well be sooner.

If I didn't think he was good enough I wouldn't select him for any game, against anyone.

[Geo V]

I wouldn't have played Dodds out of kindness or to bring on his career when the pressure was off. I've never been into nurturing anyone.

I'd have played him because he was the best option available and would have played him anytime against anyone because I'd have complete belief in him.

Sooner or later footballers have to play supposedly tough relegation battles. It might as well be sooner.

If I didn't think he was good enough I wouldn't select him for any game, against anyone.

I cant say that I have been a football manager but what I can say is I have managed someone elses big business for 12 years and now manage my own. One thing is doing the right thing in getting the best out of them. Back to football, Sir Alex has proved to be one of the best at it and reading the blokes biographies show an insight on how to do it. You cant just sling in players from the get go and expect a response that isnt damaging.

You sound very old school in your thoughts and seem to dislike words like "nurture". It isnt soft to do the right thing to get the best out of your people is it?! Some of the best examples I can give you about players being better for being loaned out and not thrust into the first team include the likes of Jermaine Defoe when he was at West Ham. Harry Redknapp used his former club Bournemouth to send players to, almost like a feeder club and Defoe went there and scored something like 20 goals in as many games and the rest is history. Leeds Jermaine Beckford may be a different type of example. They bought him as a 21yo from non league where he scored goals. They tried him in the first team and he didnt score after 10 or so games so they have sent him out on loan and he is getting better by the match. Infact, if i was that pixy midget Wise I`d recall him as he looks that good from the snippets Ive seen of him. Timing is the key.

[Thracian]

I cant say that I have been a football manager but what I can say is I have managed someone elses big business for 12 years and now manage my own. One thing is doing the right thing in getting the best out of them. Back to football, Sir Alex has proved to be one of the best at it and reading the blokes biographies show an insight on how to do it. You cant just sling in players from the get go and expect a response that isnt damaging.

You sound very old school in your thoughts and seem to dislike words like "nurture". It isnt soft to do the right thing to get the best out of your people is it?! Some of the best examples I can give you about players being better for being loaned out and not thrust into the first team include the likes of Jermaine Defoe when he was at West Ham. Harry Redknapp used his former club Bournemouth to send players to, almost like a feeder club and Defoe went there and scored something like 20 goals in as many games and the rest is history. Leeds Jermaine Beckford may be a different type of example. They bought him as a 21yo from non league where he scored goals. They tried him in the first team and he didnt score after 10 or so games so they have sent him out on loan and he is getting better by the match. Infact, if i was that pixy midget Wise I`d recall him as he looks that good from the snippets Ive seen of him. Timing is the key.

I didn't say I would have others around me to do the nurturing.

Just that it wasn't my scene and that, in picking a player I would, by that very action, be saying I thought him worthy of a place in the team whoever we were playing.

I always had complete faith in my players - and with good cause.

[Geo V]

I didn't say I would have others around me to do the nurturing.

Just that it wasn't my scene and that, in picking a player I would, by that very action, be saying I thought him worthy of a place in the team whoever we were playing.

I always had complete faith in my players - and with good cause.

Thats quite a generic way of looking at things. Even some of the biggest players to play on these shores of the last 10-15 had to be man-managed differently. Gazza needed to be loved and to be told that they all though highly of him due to his low confidence whilst Merson can also be seen in that light. Le Tissier (BTW my opinions are formed by reading loads of player/manager autobiographies ) didnt give a damn what people said as he just went about things his own way and it was "take it or leave it". Others like Paul McGrath and Norman Whiteside would have to be pushed and almost bullied to get the best out of them.

Once again, I know nothing about the personalities of players within our academy but something does seem to be wrong with the Dodds situation in particular who not only has scored plenty of goals but hasnt been loaned out that much within a 3 year period. Its also strange that we havent offered him a new contract as his current deal runs out in the summer I think doesnt it?? Maybe they just dont rate him and I`d be surprised if the likes of Stowell or Beaglehole didnt almost demand a new contract for the lad if they thought he was worth it.