BNP membership list leaked online

[Floating Fox]

I agree. Although seeing the likes of the BNP getting a taste of their own medicine could be seen poetic justice, I think it's important not to take too much satisfaction from it as doing so is simply to bring yourself down to their level

Agree with both you & Daggers. I guess I didn't put it accross right, poetic justice is just about spot on though.

[Finnegan]

Keep up.

As if I've read every post of a nineteen page thread!

[stez]

As if I've read every post of a nineteen page thread!

i bet you missed the one where i sorted everything out didn't you? <_<

[Thracian]

Well let's clear one or two things up then.

1) I don't believe in ending immigration completely. I believe immigration should be much more strictly controlled and limited to the sort of numbers that our infrastructure can properly cope with. It should be balanced according to sustainable population numbers and linked to the number of people moving out. For everyone's sake, natives and settlers.

2) No-one is more appreciative than me of "foreign" servicemen who have fought for this country and their families. The Gurkha question was never a question to me and my attitude would be the same for anyone who had fought faithfully on our behalf, barring special circumstances like the committing of serious crime at any time. Nor do I in any way disregard or undervalue the massive contribution made by settlers to this nation's social, economic and cultural welfare whether they be surgeons, street cleaners or anything else.

3) Some 60% of my business involves non native customers and I'm well aware that they are as concerned and affected by the current economic and social pressures as everyone else, because they tell me. Limiting immigration would be as much for their benefit as for anyone else. It is no use Gordon Brown pinching more and more money off people in council tax, stealth tax and so on and then overseeing a situation where they're either losing their jobs and having to find another if they can or they're having to take lower wages. His unfair and uninspired leadership disgusts me at times.

4) Positive discrimination has to end. It is unfair, patronising and is a greater source of bitterness, resentment and disharmony than anything I know. I have many foreign friends and acquaintances - including yourself I hope - and not one of them wants or needs any special favours. You only get true equality in a society when people are treated equally. I have no doubt that foreigners weren't always treated equally or fairly in our land and still aren't in many countries - to people's eternal shame - but I am equally sure the scales have been violently tipped the other way in England and that both ways are wrong. Totally wrong. If jobs and opportunities are to be created they should be created for everyone.

I hope that helps. I could go on all night and I'd doubt anyone would thank me for that.

But if you want to ask any questions I'll be happy to answer them.

Based on what I said in number (1) it is interesting to note the views expressed by an Indian born english businessman who experienced the Mumbai massacres. Perhaps he should stand for Prime Minister! It would be interesting to see how many votes he got or would those who would stifle debate somehow aim the racist card at him too?

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20081130/tuk-c...ng-6323e80.html

[Ultra]

Gulam Noon is entitled to his views.

It doesn't mean those views are right though. In fact they're rather hypocritical. Why shouldn't others have the chance to climb the ladder as he has done?

[Guest]

Based on what I said in number (1) it is interesting to note the views expressed by an Indian born english businessman who experienced the Mumbai massacres. Perhaps he should stand for Prime Minister! It would be interesting to see how many votes he got or would those who would stifle debate somehow aim the racist card at him too?

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20081130/tuk-c...ng-6323e80.html

The people in my immigration law class who think along the same lines are British-born Muslims, whose parents own businesses and are worried about any potential loss in business. It's quite ironic, because the same things were being said 30yrs ago, and again back in the 1950's by the indigenous population.

[Thracian]

The people in my immigration law class who think along the same lines are British-born Muslims, whose parents own businesses and are worried about any potential loss in business. It's quite ironic, because the same things were being said 30yrs ago, and again back in the 1950's by the indigenous population.

Well, as more and more people are obliged to beg for the sometimes essential but commerically non-productive but ever-increasing jobs offered by the State, the productive job losses continue...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20081201/tuk-a...bs-6323e80.html

Essentially the Government as a jobs provider is a service industry.

And there's no way a capitalist society with fast diminishing assets and massive debt can sustain a service industry without someone also providing something to sell and without the people having sufficient funds to purchase those things.

But then I don't suppose the marxists and communists who hide behind Labour Party membership really want a capitalist society in the medium term. I suspect they would rather people were slaves to the state and, apart from what that might do to individual drive, enthusiasm, ambition and enterprise, etc I am actually beginning to wonder if such a future is inevitable.

What better way for a government to achieve those ends than to make more and more people rely on the state and to deny people the sort of disposable income that will enable them to support productive industry anyway.

...And to get their pet police force to help them make sure the truth doesn't get out more than can be helped.

[Fez of Mahrez]

I hate the term "non-productive", it's a joke.

[Thracian]

I hate the term "non-productive", it's a joke.

So do I because it's dismissive when I don't mean it to be. Many "non-productive" jobs are vital as I did explain when using the term previously. I went with the much summarised term to save words but have now modified the phrase.

Health service workers, teachers, refuse-collectors, social workers (at least in theory), emergency services personnel and many more are essential for the wellbeing of this nation's people but they cost an enormous amount of money.

And that money has to be found (by any responsible government) from the consequence of productive work (selling things) or investment in other things that produce a profit.

And all this at a time when the percentage of people's income collected in tax is already at or around the highest ever and while those taxes should actually be higher to pay for increasing national debt (even though many people can't afford the existing taxes).

That situation can only get worse if our manufacturing industries are decimated because they cannot remain profitable and if the benefits of selling natural resources are nullified by paying highly to import such resources because our own resources are running out.

The point I was simply trying to make Fez is "where's the money coming from to run Gt Britain plc and to balance our books if we fail to encourage and/or protect our manufacturing industries and to generate the funds needed to create new ones?"

Because you cannot survive economically on service industries.

The people will inevitably become slaves to the state on that basis. People will increasing come to rely on the state instead of themselves.

As is happening today, the percentages of wages being paid by the state will increase and those wages will then be taken by the state to provide for an increasingly dependent population. Already huge numbers of people have fewer assets than they had 12 months ago and therefore have lower creditworthiness (spending power).

I don't pretend to be an economist. I much respect your views as you well know so perhaps you could explain how the economy can be re-invigourated and thrive to everyone's benefit in the future because the current approach won't work by any logic I can apply, except perhaps by the dour prospect of Marxism or Communism.

Simple as I am, when I run my business it needs to show a profit and when it doesn't I need to accept that and make some changes. Countries, like companies, can quite reasonably borrow against assets but when those assets run down they run the risk of going bankrupt just like individuals.

But then who could realistically have faith in a Prime Minister that lost billions selling half the nation's gold at virtually the lowest price this century while ignoring expert advice that it would, inevitably, increase dramatically.

I'd leave you with this, which is dated October 2, 2003, which, refers to the importance of house values to the economy.

I couldn't find an updated quote which would doubtless show just how much the situation has worsened as property prices have plunged.

The other link (see page three) refers to the increasing numbers employed by the State compared to production workers (now a their lowest levels since records began in 1978).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3158968.stm

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/the...r/LMS_QandA.pdf

[Fez of Mahrez]