Daggers Posted 21 November 2008 Posted 21 November 2008 I think it's a useful check to be able to see the diatribe they come out with. I'd rather it was out there for us to see, and not hidden away. More than that - they play the victim all of the time. A lot of this plays into their hands and they have received a shedload of publicity from it. Banning (or talking of doing so) the organisation gives it the oxygen it needs to spout more garbage. Let them have their little party and go back to having piss all representation, consumed with bickering and in-fighting. It's what they are best at. Come the day the actually present a challenge then there's always another Cable Street to be had.
Bazaldo Posted 21 November 2008 Posted 21 November 2008 I also wanted to say, I've seen you making digs about not being allowed to have an opinion. Nobody has said you can't have an opinion, but you have to expect to have that opinion challenged, as I am having mine challenged on this thread. It's good to be able to back up your opinion though, and I do love an argument. Fair shout Lisa no hard feelings. Respect your opinions. Just if you can imagine coming into here new n all that and having everyone jump on you like im some sort of nutter then it can be quite intimidating. Not gonna shy away from anything though just like your good self. Originally come on here to just talk city tbh. Now i feel im so so serious its untrue. So not me. Didn't realise i was so opinionated
Bazaldo Posted 21 November 2008 Posted 21 November 2008 More than that - they play the victim all of the time. A lot of this plays into their hands and they have received a shedload of publicity from it. Banning (or talking of doing so) the organisation gives it the oxygen it needs to spout more garbage.Let them have their little party and go back to having piss all representation, consumed with bickering and in-fighting. It's what they are best at. Come the day the actually present a challenge then there's always another Cable Street to be had. Come on aren't they just mis-understood?
Zingari Posted 21 November 2008 Posted 21 November 2008 More than that - they play the victim all of the time. A lot of this plays into their hands and they have received a shedload of publicity from it. Banning (or talking of doing so) the organisation gives it the oxygen it needs to spout more garbage.Let them have their little party and go back to having piss all representation, consumed with bickering and in-fighting. It's what they are best at. Come the day the actually present a challenge then there's always another Cable Street to be had. it's a good strategy though it works for muslims
Ultra Posted 22 November 2008 Posted 22 November 2008 This list actually shows that the BNP, contrary to their previous boasts, are actually fairly weak. They say that they're a fast-growing political force. Yet in one ward in Leicester, where they've been active and have stated ambitions of becoming the biggest party, they've managed to recruit a grand total of EIGHT members. They're also ridden with infighting and splits on a regular basis, as their leader promotes cronies who prove to be way out of their depth. Tomorrow definitely does NOT belong to them!
shen Posted 22 November 2008 Posted 22 November 2008 A little ethical question that could go a long way .I agree contribution would be very hard to measure and would not need some stringent set of rules that would unjustifiably not include those that do make a contribution just not in the definition of the government. Although I think it would be quite easy to make a minimum standard and work from there, basically targetting the ''worst'', whoever they might be. With regards to the ethical question, the measures should not be confined no, but I think you'd have to have different 'punishments' for want of a better word. You could never be justified in deporting a British citizen of 20 generations in the UK as if they were an immigrant of 6 months. Instead you would have to look at things like cutting their funding or something after a reasonable period. One of my friends from Luxembourg can't believe how our benefits system works, over there they get I think a year to sort themselves out, then it's cut completely. I remember on question time a few months ago some woman was on the lowest pay possible, paying tax and ending up with less than someone on support, so were is the encouragement to go ''contribute'' in the primary sense? I guess at the moment with unemployment being so high it would be hard for the Government to sort out with people cutting jobs left right and centre... but they had their chance in the good times. But this could go on forever! Aye, it could. But why could the highlighted bit never be justified? Ignoring the current (inter)national rules for a second, why should a British citizen who contributes with nothing not be deported, if we indeed measure people by their contribution? Why does it matter how long his ancestors have been in the UK? Everybody in the UK is originally an immigrant if you just go far enough back in time... And I don't think it would be that easy to set a minimum standard (that would make sense or have any effect). Should it be economic contribution? Social contribution? Religious contribution? e.g. Would a mother without work, raising her children by herself and receiving support from the state be contributing positively? Does her role as a parent and raising of potential workforce even out the support and the state-paid primary school education? And what about criminals? etc. etc.
Thracian Posted 22 November 2008 Posted 22 November 2008 This list actually shows that the BNP, contrary to their previous boasts, are actually fairly weak.They say that they're a fast-growing political force. Yet in one ward in Leicester, where they've been active and have stated ambitions of becoming the biggest party, they've managed to recruit a grand total of EIGHT members. They're also ridden with infighting and splits on a regular basis, as their leader promotes cronies who prove to be way out of their depth. Tomorrow definitely does NOT belong to them! Come on Ultra! As if the Labour Party is not riddled with infighting. Bloody hell stacks of MPs would even have their leader out tomorrow were it their choice and were they not so afraid for their careers. And there is a big difference between a Party claiming they're to be the fastest-growing force and the fastest frowing Party. You know and I know, not every supporter or sympathiser has joined the BNP partly for reasons that have become abundantly obvious on the release of their list of members. Nowhere near every Labour sympathiser joins the Party yet they're is no risk to their jobs. So I'd guess there's far more closet BNP sympathisers than you're admitting and, besides, claiming to be the fastest growing political force just now would be no great achievement at all. Tomorrow doesn't belong to the BNP I agree. But conversations I have nearly every day tell me the warning signs are getting much too loud to ignore. And it is time the major political parties started to tackle the reasons why and time that influential policy makers in the Labour Party stopped hating white people and making them feel constantly victimised.
Daggers Posted 22 November 2008 Posted 22 November 2008 ...conversations I have nearly every day tell me the warning signs are getting much too loud to ignore... Funny - I never seem to find myself having conversations like that. Ever. Maybe I'm hanging around the wrong people?
Thracian Posted 22 November 2008 Posted 22 November 2008 Funny - I never seem to find myself having conversations like that. Ever. Maybe I'm hanging around the wrong people? Schools are quite sheltered environments in some ways. Perhaps you should try a day or two on the market. You'd be astounded at the people you've barely met who arrive at your stall and unburden the deepest secrets of their lives. Seriously. They talk about politics, their operations, their debts, their long-ended affairs, their ex-wives' affairs, their job applications, the news of the day like the leaked BNP list ... it's like they've gotta let it out to someone and a stallholder has about as anonymous an ear as they can find. Truth is too many of these people have no job, no car, no future, nothing to look forward to and their lives are a monotonous routine. The market is their treat for the day and for every day - the source of a few bits and pieces, cheap fruit to sustain themselves, the banter with familiar faces and, if they're lucky and they want it, perhaps a bit of bunce money for the day as they push out the trollies of unload the stock. Some are disabled, some are getting on, and some are dying. It's quite sad in some ways and reminds me of that song title Boulevard of Broken Dreams. With my wife having been so poorly and with our cash flow having dried up so dramatically for the two years surrounding that, perhaps I find it easy to fit in and to at least lend an understanding ear. Market trading is not just about making sales Dags. It's about treating every potential customer as if they matter and hopefully brightening or lightening their day.
Daggers Posted 22 November 2008 Posted 22 November 2008 Schools are quite sheltered environments in some ways. Amazingly enough Tony I spend my days talking to parents from all demographics and then (get this) I get to leave at the end of the day and talk to real people in the real world too. Maybe it speaks more about your average market trader than it does about society at large?
Thracian Posted 22 November 2008 Posted 22 November 2008 Amazingly enough Tony I spend my days talking to parents from all demographics and then (get this) I get to leave at the end of the day and talk to real people in the real world too. Maybe it speaks more about your average market trader than it does about society at large? With the vastly different backgrounds of 300-odd market traders I'm not sure there's an "average" one. But I'm happy to accept what you say about teaching. I'm not a teacher and harking back to my mother's days in the classroom would not be relevent today, she being, in any case, a much different character to your good self. Meanwhile I'm pleased that you've heard nothing to suggest the BNP are gaining momentum in suburban Birmingham. With that in mind and Ultra's reports of there being only eight BNP supporters in somewhere like New Parks it's clear that I've perhaps been alarmist and can go back to the football with no concerns.
Thracian Posted 22 November 2008 Posted 22 November 2008 This list actually shows that the BNP, contrary to their previous boasts, are actually fairly weak.They say that they're a fast-growing political force. Yet in one ward in Leicester, where they've been active and have stated ambitions of becoming the biggest party, they've managed to recruit a grand total of EIGHT members. They're also ridden with infighting and splits on a regular basis, as their leader promotes cronies who prove to be way out of their depth. Tomorrow definitely does NOT belong to them! PS: In case you genuinely have any doubts about the truth of my concerns perhaps you should read this... http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20081122/tuk-b...ce-6323e80.html Why would anyone be concerned about the BNP getting "footholds" in various areas if they don't have much support?
Daggers Posted 22 November 2008 Posted 22 November 2008 Why would anyone be concerned about the BNP getting "footholds" in various areas if they don't have much support? Hazel Blears is an idiot.
Thracian Posted 22 November 2008 Posted 22 November 2008 Hazel Blears is an idiot. That's unfortunate, cos judging by the pic she's not got a lot else going for her. Perhaps i'm just remembering those other two!
Daggers Posted 22 November 2008 Posted 22 November 2008 That's unfortunate, cos judging by the pic she not got a lot else going for her! Favourite Thracian post of the day.
Ultra Posted 23 November 2008 Posted 23 November 2008 Hazel Blears is an idiot. No argument from me there. Blairite groupies, of whatever gender, have a lot to answer for. The idea of directly-elected police authorities is a dangerous one. It hasn't exactly been a shining success in the US.
Webbo Posted 23 November 2008 Posted 23 November 2008 The idea of directly-elected police authorities is a dangerous one. It hasn't exactly been a shining success in the US. Unsurprisingly I disagree. There's far too much patronage in govt/local govt. Police chiefs are appointed on the basis of who they went to university with and whether they hold the correct views.They can concentrate on the priorities of the elite ruling classes and safely ignore the priorities of the average voter. If those voters had the chance to remove them from their well paid jobs that would have to change.
Daggers Posted 23 November 2008 Posted 23 November 2008 What list? More surprisingly, how did you get on it? What list??? You should know. You're on it. Keep up.
Floating Fox Posted 23 November 2008 Posted 23 November 2008 Please explain the joke http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/c...icle5204727.ece Oh dear yet another narrow minded idiot who thinks that everyone who has voted for thw bnp is an idiotAnd to find the fact someone has had their car torched funny well that just further shows your stupidity Ok, maybe not voting for them, but being a member, giving money, and backing to these scumbags...they are getting exactly what they deserve imo.
Daggers Posted 23 November 2008 Posted 23 November 2008 Ok, maybe not voting for them, but being a member, giving money, and backing to these scumbags...they are getting exactly what they deserve imo. And the kids who are named as part of family memberships?
Floating Fox Posted 23 November 2008 Posted 23 November 2008 And the kids who are named as part of family memberships? Didn't realise this was the case....The fact remains it obviously was only going to create more conflict by putting the list on t'interweb, but its there and there is nothing that can be done about that now. Being a member of the BNP wouldn't be first on my list if I was trying to protect my family anyway.
Daggers Posted 23 November 2008 Posted 23 November 2008 Didn't realise this was the case....The fact remains it obviously was only going to create more conflict by putting the list on t'interweb, but its there and there is nothing that can be done about that now. Being a member of the BNP wouldn't be first on my list if I was trying to protect my family anyway. Doesn't excuse it though mate. Redwatch are a case in point and think nothing of encouraging the mindless to violently attack people for having liberal or left of centre views. I find their site and the actions of Combat 18 abhorrent - but struggle to see a difference in the actions of anyone attacking BNP members, ex-members or their families. As I said in the thread about the Birmingham pub bombings, anyone that takes their level of support/belief to such a fanatical level is a danger to themselves and society. I don't find torching someone's car funny, I find it pathetic. I hope they get caught by the police because they do not represent those of us who legally speak out against fascism.
Bellend Sebastian Posted 23 November 2008 Posted 23 November 2008 Doesn't excuse it though mate.Redwatch are a case in point and think nothing of encouraging the mindless to violently attack people for having liberal or left of centre views. I find their site and the actions of Combat 18 abhorrent - but struggle to see a difference in the actions of anyone attacking BNP members, ex-members or their families. As I said in the thread about the Birmingham pub bombings, anyone that takes their level of support/belief to such a fanatical level is a danger to themselves and society. I don't find torching someone's car funny, I find it pathetic. I hope they get caught by the police because they do not represent those of us who legally speak out against fascism. I agree. Although seeing the likes of the BNP getting a taste of their own medicine could be seen poetic justice, I think it's important not to take too much satisfaction from it as doing so is simply to bring yourself down to their level
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