So Many Dirty Lazy Bastards

[davieG]

From the Merc

More than £7 million of taxpayers' money was used keeping Leicestershire's streets free of filth and litter over the last year.

The huge cost of sending out street sweepers and litter pickers to clean up after litter louts and fly-tippers has been revealed by councils.

In Leicester alone the city council spent £4.26 million on street cleaning in the financial year to March – £189,000 more than in the previous 12 months.

City council environment spokeswoman Councillor Sarah Russell described the figure as a "staggering amount".

She hoped the threat of £80 on-the-spot fines from the recently expanded team of city wardens, and educational campaigns, would eventually see the street-cleaning budget fall.

She said: "Our idea always has been to improve our enforcement work so that we can start to spend less on street cleaning in the future. The money could then be used for something else.

"We have a real challenge to change people's attitudes, getting people to accept dropping litter isn't acceptable, and make them realise that every time they do it we all have to pay to clean it up."

Hinckley and Bosworth Borough Council spent £732,000 last year on street cleaning, while North West Leicestershire District Council's budget was £725,000.

North-west Leicestershire's environment champion Councillor Alison Smith said: "In a time when the public sector is being asked to tighten its belts significantly, we are asking the residents of north-west Leicestershire to do their bit and get behind our campaign to keep our district clean and litter free."

Melton Borough Council spent £338,000 and Blaby District Council spent £443,000.

Oadby and Wigston Borough Council and Harborough District Council were unable to say what their budgets were, but Charnwood Borough Council put £777,131 into street cleaning.

Charnwood environment spokesman Councillor Hilary Fryer said: "It is extremely frustrating that we have to devote so much money to cleaning up after litter louts and fly-tippers."

The Campaign to Protect Rural England's Stop the Drop Campaign said UK councils spent £858 million on litter last year. Leicestershire spokesman Robert Dews said: "That money could be used to tackle the other problems councils have to deal with.

"Unfortunately too many people assume if they create a mess someone else will simply come along and clear it up."

Rama Varambhia, who runs Snutch News on the corner of Fosse Road and Upperton Road, Leicester, said there had been a problem with rubbish dumped at nearby empty flats for months.

She said: "We always ring the council to tell them when new stuff is dumped. Although they collect it they never speak to the people doing it so it keeps happening."

[Bellend Sebastian]

I was f**king livid when I read this this morning. I'm not surprised - similar, heartbreaking figures have been published before, but never this high. What's particularly sickening is that with all the cuts expected in the public sector and the inevitable impact on jobs and services that will have, millions are being paid out to clean up after these utter wankers.

The CPRE's Stop The Drop Campaign (fronted by author Bill Bryson) has been pointing out for ages that councils spend millions on this without recouping any of it through enforcement and fining people. Not so many years ago the total number of people prosecuted for fly tipping across the whole of England amounted to a few dozen in a year (some councils had literally not prosecuted a single individual) despite both urban and country areas being constantly clogged with dumped rubbish.

Read this to become truly depressed: http://www.cpre.org.uk/campaigns/stop-the-drop/litter-and-fly-tipping/litter-the-problem-with-litter

I can remember being about 10 and walking home from school a few yards behind the big brother of one of my mates when he casually dropped a chocolate wrapper on the floor, and being shocked that someone that lived in our relatively leafy and pleasant area would do such a thing. It's one of those things that as a child, you assume that by the time you're an adult everyone will have realised how grim it is and the problem will have sorted itself out. Instead, it seems to be worse than ever

[Lillehamring]

don't get me started - one of the main things i'm gald to see the back of....

[Houdini Logic]

They're always going to send out street sweepers and litter pickers because it's not just litter that needs to be swept up daily to keep our streets clean, and it's inevitably going to cost money.

Nothing suprising or interesting to be honest.

[davieG]

They're always going to send out street sweepers and litter pickers because it's not just litter that needs to be swept up daily to keep our streets clean, and it's inevitably going to cost money.

Nothing suprising or interesting to be honest.

What a blinkered ignorant view.

[Houdini Logic]

What a blinkered ignorant view.

Would you care to explain where and how I'm being blinkered and ignorant?

[davieG]

Would you care to explain where and how I'm being blinkered and ignorant?

If people continually drop /dumped their rubbish.

1. The sweepers will have to operate more often.

2. The sweepers generally only do the main town centre streets on a regular basis, therefore the rubbish mounts up.

3. This is not just about fag ends it's about people dumping black bin bags full all around the City & County.

4. Chewing gum takes considerable effort to remove, it's not a case of sending out a sweeper.

5. It's well known because of all the take away meal leftovers dropped there has been a significant increase in rats in City and Urban areas therefore increasing the expenditure of the pest control and Environmental Health Departments.

6. Let's not forget all the dogshit that has to be cleaned up from urban, town and village streets

I could go on, but even if this wasn't the case there's no excuse for people dropping rubbish in the streets they are just being dirty lazy bastards..

[Houdini Logic]

If people continually drop /dumped their rubbish.

1. The sweepers will have to operate more often.

2. The sweepers generally only do the main town centre streets on a regular basis, therefore the rubbish mounts up.

3. This is not just about fag ends it's about people dumping black bin bags full all around the City & County.

4. Chewing gum takes considerable effort to remove, it's not a case of sending out a sweeper.

5. It's well known because of all the take away meal leftovers dropped there has been a significant increase in rats in City and Urban areas therefore increasing the expenditure of the pest control and Environmental Health Departments.

6. Let's not forget all the dogshit that has to be cleaned up from urban, town and village streets

I could go on, but even if this wasn't the case there's no excuse for people dropping rubbish in the streets they are just being dirty lazy bastards..

I'm sure you'll realise that most of those points are either beyond the point I was making in my original post or not relevant.

My point, which I stick by, is that I don't believe reducing the amount of litter dropped around Leicester will have a direct correlation to the amount of street sweepers and litter pickers we require.

I also can't see how that view makes me blinkered and ignorant, but maybe that's because I'm blinkered and ignorant.

[davieG]

I'm sure you'll realise that most of those points are either beyond the point I was making in my original post or not relevant.

My point, which I stick by, is that I don't believe reducing the amount of litter dropped around Leicester will have a direct correlation to the amount of street sweepers and litter pickers we require.

I also can't see how that view makes me blinkered and ignorant, but maybe that's because I'm blinkered and ignorant.

Well the original article was about more than just the streets of Leicester and more than a bit of dropped litter. I'd also hazard a guess that it's the same lazy bastards that drop litter in around Leicester come from the families responsible for all the other shit around the place because they have the same attitude as you they simply don't give a fook!

It's irrelevant as to the direct impact it has on the number of sweeps they have to do it still makes them lazy dirty bastards and despite what you say WILL and to the overall costs of running the system.

[Edmund]

Why Britain hasn't adopted the same stance on litter as Singapore has always baffled me. They've banned chewing gum over there and it's had miraculous results.

I've never visited a cleaner country.

[lavrentis]

Driving through melton road today and saw someone chuck a crisp packet outside their car window, no shame at all. Things like that just piss me off. Cunts

[davieG]

Driving through melton road today and saw someone chuck a crisp packet outside their car window, no shame at all. Things like that just piss me off. ****s

No problem Houdini will be by with his sweeper very soon to make it disappear like magic.

[Houdini Logic]

Well the original article was about more than just the streets of Leicester and more than a bit of dropped litter. I'd also hazard a guess that it's the same lazy bastards that drop litter in around Leicester come from the families responsible for all the other shit around the place because they have the same attitude as you they simply don't give a fook!

It's irrelevant as to the direct impact it has on the number of sweeps they have to do it still makes them lazy dirty bastards and despite what you say WILL and to the overall costs of running the system.

But surely it's this that has an effect on the cost?

For the record I do agree that people who drop litter in any form are lazy dirty bastards and I believe that it's down to attitude and part of a greater problem.

My hang up is that people read these articles, see the figures and get very one track minded - whereas in the real world I think that even if you halved the amount of litter dropped, the amount of money you would save on street sweeping would be negligible.

[Bellend Sebastian]

They're always going to send out street sweepers and litter pickers because it's not just litter that needs to be swept up daily to keep our streets clean, and it's inevitably going to cost money.

Nothing suprising or interesting to be honest.

You don't think this exercise would require less time and resources if it didn't involve removing hundreds of tons of litter and rubbish that has been dropped and dumped?

I'm going to go out on a crazy limb here and say that I think it would

[Houdini Logic]

No problem Houdini will be by with his sweeper very soon to make it disappear like magic.

You should be grateful people are throwing rubbish, because the minute they don't Davie will sack all street sweepers and the daily grime, general shit and non-intentional rubbish will soon build up

You don't think this exercise would require less time and resources if it didn't involve removing hundreds of tons of litter and rubbish that has been dropped and dumped?

I'm going to go out on a crazy limb here and say that I think it would

Enough money to be suprising or interesting?

[Bellend Sebastian]

You should be grateful people are throwing rubbish, because the minute they don't Davie will sack all street sweepers and the daily grime, general shit and non-intentional rubbish will soon build up

Well he might, or he may just use the money to re-employ them in one of the council's understaffed departments. Possibly doing something a bit more rewarding, you never know.

As for whether the money saved is 'surprising or interesting', does it have to be either? It's wasted money that could be spent on something more useful - to keep a facility open, to pay for other front line workers, or even just reduce the pressure to raise council tax.

[Houdini Logic]

Well he might, or he may just use the money to re-employ them in one of the council's understaffed departments. Possibly doing something a bit more rewarding, you never know.

As for whether the money saved is 'surprising or interesting', does it have to be either? It's wasted money that could be spent on something more useful - to keep a facility open, to pay for other front line workers, or even just reduce the pressure to raise council tax.

Point 1 - It was a joke aimed at Davie's argument, and I'm not sure the problem with councils is that their departments are understaffed!

Point 2 - Yes it does, being that that was the point you were replying to from my original post

[davieG]

You should be grateful people are throwing rubbish, because the minute they don't Davie will sack all street sweepers and the daily grime, general shit and non-intentional rubbish will soon build up

Enough money to be suprising or interesting?

I don't work for the councils but I do pay over £1800 a year in Council Tax out of my meagre income and frankly any unnecessary spending that can be cut simply by people using the nearest bin is alright by me even if it doesn't reduce my Tax it could at least go to something more deserving and unavoidable.

Besides it was your attitude to the report of it's ok to drop litter because there's so much dropped one more piece wont make any difference. If no one dropped any litter at all they'd only have to sweep up the dust and could probably do it considerably quicker and less often.

[Jon the Hat]

I don't work for the councils but I do pay over £1800 a year in Council Tax out of my meagre income and frankly any unnecessary spending that can be cut simply by people using the nearest bin is alright by me even if it doesn't reduce my Tax it could at least go to something more deserving and unavoidable.

Besides it was your attitude to the report of it's ok to drop litter because there's so much dropped one more piece wont make any difference. If no one dropped any litter at all they'd only have to sweep up the dust and could probably do it considerably quicker and less often.

Ah no, you see there is no actual saving my friend, becuase as you will note in the original article, what they have done is expand their enforcement team! thus spending more money in advance of any possible saving they will ever see. The idea of paying council workers to wonder about fining people for droppping litter is completely insane. Education in schools - fine. In fact get the school kids out cleaning up litter and they will soon stop. Then publish the cost per piece of litter picked up. Then people like us see this information, and they start to point of the error of their ways to the cretins who are littering.

If we are not willing to take responsibility for telling people not to drop litter, then unfortunately we have to pay someone else to do so. Our call I guess.

[Head Honcho]

I don't work for the councils but I do pay over £1800 a year in Council Tax out of my meagre income and frankly any unnecessary spending that can be cut simply by people using the nearest bin is alright by me even if it doesn't reduce my Tax it could at least go to something more deserving and unavoidable.

Besides it was your attitude to the report of it's ok to drop litter because there's so much dropped one more piece wont make any difference. If no one dropped any litter at all they'd only have to sweep up the dust and could probably do it considerably quicker and less often.

No matter how many savings they make I seriously doubt your council tax will ever decrease.

The councils pension liability will ensure that will never happen!

As for litterbugs. Surely if they seriously wanted to tackle the problem then they should treat littering like they''ve done speeding in recent years but with all things in this country. It's ok sending someone a fine in the post but it's something else having to confront the offender and giving them an on the spot fine!

Maybe they could employ a couple of dozen bouncers during the day as enforcement officers

[Lillehamring]

Ah no, you see there is no actual saving my friend, becuase as you will note in the original article, what they have done is expand their enforcement team! thus spending more money in advance of any possible saving they will ever see. The idea of paying council workers to wonder about fining people for droppping litter is completely insane. Education in schools - fine. In fact get the school kids out cleaning up litter and they will soon stop. Then publish the cost per piece of litter picked up. Then people like us see this information, and they start to point of the error of their ways to the cretins who are littering.

If we are not willing to take responsibility for telling people not to drop litter, then unfortunately we have to pay someone else to do so. Our call I guess.

the trouble is, the enforcement teams are so inefficient and harmless right now that people are simply not deterred from dropping litter - if a real threat to a litterbug's wallet was perceived the chances are that a positive response would be enjoyed.

the only way to achieve this is to increase the presence, the power and the penalties for what is, effectively, a crime. investing funds to provide a greater deterrent (along with a much more brutal financial punishment) should lead to less litter and thus less cleaners required.

and of course this also applies to flytipping as well as cigarette butts.

the trouble with relying on education, is that there are people with such mentality that simply telling them that dropping litter is bad (m'kay) will have no effect on them, most people you see dropping rubbish are clearly doing it automatically.

education or not, some people just don't care, and never will until it comes down to being heavily fined for it.

[Houdini Logic]

the trouble is, the enforcement teams are so inefficient and harmless right now that people are simply not deterred from dropping litter - if a real threat to a litterbug's wallet was perceived the chances are that a positive response would be enjoyed.

the only way to achieve this is to increase the presence, the power and the penalties for what is, effectively, a crime. investing funds to provide a greater deterrent (along with a much more brutal financial punishment) should lead to less litter and thus less cleaners required.

and of course this also applies to flytipping as well as cigarette butts.

the trouble with relying on education, is that there are people with such mentality that simply telling them that dropping litter is bad (m'kay) will have no effect on them, most people you see dropping rubbish are clearly doing it automatically.

education or not, some people just don't care, and never will until it comes down to being heavily fined for it.

There's no need to teach people rape is bad, instead we'll put them off with a 50 year jail term and £5,000 fine

[davieG]

Let's not teach people rape is bad, instead we'll put them off by with a 50 year jail term and £5,000 fine

The point is we do teach people rape is bad but it still happens when it does it's punished and the point being made was you can't just rely on Education as jon the hat was suggesting.

[Jon the Hat]

The point is we do teach people rape is bad but it still happens when it does it's punished and the point being made was you can't just rely on Education as jon the hat was suggesting.

Not suggesting just education, but it would cost more to employ people to issue on the spot fines that it would to pick up the litter, so we either pay people to pick it up or we as a society statrt pointing out to individuals that it is cretinous behaviour.

[Houdini Logic]

The point is we do teach people rape is bad but it still happens when it does it's punished and the point being made was you can't just rely on Education as jon the hat was suggesting.

Actually he said education will have no effect on them, hence the ridiculous statement