SLOW DOWN - GRIM SEASON AHEAD

[Chandler]

'fraid so folks. Most of us think that. Even most of the fickle boneheads think that. On the balance of probabilities a lower than mid-table position is the most likely outcome next season.

What is now becoming clear is that Levein is neither a quick nor a slow fix for LCFC. But some supporters are still determined to see him in this light. They point to improvements in certain players' performances (Adams' acquisitions) towards the end of the season as proof of his healing powers.

But in the same breath they say that these same players are part of the 'mess that Adams left' and that until there is a clear out there will be no chance of a play-off spot and no fair way to assess Levein.

My friends, YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. Either these players are quintessential cack or they are useful assets. So, which is it?

Either way it does not look good for Levein...

[Libertine]

Unfortuneately some of us a realising that too. Don't think it'll be too bad, but probably won't get promotion....I disagree about Levein not being a fix for the club though, Adams fanboy.

[Chimp]

If you're referring to next season then any point you're trying to make Chandler is moot - of the signings MA made only a couple are still with City. CL will be judged on future performances with a team signed and selected by himself.

If you're referring to last season then, well, what's the point?

It would be nice, just once, to see you post something positive in regard to the team to claim to support.

[C-man]

It would be nice, just once, to see you post something positive in regard to the team to claim to support.

112357[/snapback]

Yeah, your obviously not a great supporter of the club

[Durnerz]

'fraid so folks. Most of us think that. Even most of the fickle boneheads think that. On the balance of probabilities a lower than mid-table position is the most likely outcome next season.

What is now becoming clear is that Levein is neither a quick nor a slow fix for LCFC. But some supporters are still determined to see him in this light. They point to improvements in certain players' performances (Adams' acquisitions) towards the end of the season as proof of his healing powers.

But in the same breath they say that these same players are part of the 'mess that Adams left' and that until there is a clear out there will be no chance of a play-off spot and no fair way to assess Levein.

My friends, YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. Either these players are quintessential cack or they are useful assets. So, which is it?

Either way it does not look good for Levein...

112331[/snapback]

Whoever said that? Thats an assumtion not a fact. What you meant to say is thats what YOU think. Why bother supporting LCFC if you have no belief?

[Leicesterboi]

Chandler lets see some belief my boy. im not saying unrealistic belief, but with your attitude it just seems you have no faith in the club. I want to hear you doing your bit next season and im sure the team will give us more to shout about!

Keep the faith! (sorry to use a MA slogan but it still applies)

[Simon]

Chandler lets see some belief my boy. im not saying unrealistic belief, but with your attitude it just seems you have no faith in the club. I want to hear you doing your bit next season and im sure the team will give us more to shout about!

Keep the faith! (sorry to use a MA slogan but it still applies)

112385[/snapback]

Chandler would just like to see the club fail so he can prove his point...

[TornadoShaunUK]

I have a feeling we wont be going up next season to be honest but I hope we will atleast be challenging for play offs. Even if we dont go up I dont think its going to take a great deal to do better than this season.

[breadandcheese]

As I have said countless times Chandler, Levein's approach is to buy who he considers are "hungry" players. The majority of these will therefore be raw and unheard of, such that their signings are considered uninspiring.

Last summer, we signed big names for this level in Keown, Dublin, Gudjonsson, Wilcox, Tiatto, etc. I believe they got a culture shock at the style and intensity of the football played in the Championship (similar to your correct assertion about Levein). (Note: It is for this reason that I actually think Southampton will not win promotion next season.)

Therefore, I think we will continue to be uninspired and perhaps frustrated at the players Levein signs. However, hopefully this will turn into surprise when we see them play together next season.

[Benji]

fickle boneheads

sheesh - almost as annoying as micky adams speaking in the 3rd person

[Ric Flair]

My expectations are going to be quite low for next season so that if i'm correct I won't be disappointed. I came in for a great shock this season and although it's been a horrible season i've learned a few things on the way. I've learnt that although I want the best for my team, which inevitably is the premiership I actually aren't that bothered that we're not in the premiership at present. Things have caught up with us at this club after certain managers have tried to take short-cuts. Often there isn't ever a short term fix in football and without continuity, team spirit, motivation and quality we won't succeed.

What I want to see Leicester do is build a team of players who are young and hungry for success, players that haven't proven themselves in this game yet and it's their sole desire to do so. Not players that have played in the premiership, been told their not good enough to play there anymore and they come to a club like Leicester for an easy ride and then **** off. If we don't see premiership football for a few years, then so be it. We've been blessed with success at this club under O'Neill and our time will come again. In the mean time, let's get things right. The fans are a long way off being perfect, which ties in with the way the club has been run. If we can get a squad together that can potentially play together for more than a season, the fans will build up a rapport with these lads and the atmosphere will get better.

Everything needs changing, it's a massive job. We could just patch things up and float around for a while, but what good will that do us? Why not be brave and try to build a revolution? The fans want it, happiness means success. Success isn't just judged on trophies in my opinion. Yes, that's what it boils down to on paper, but remember our team looked good on paper last season. The majority of the fans are impressed with Levein's ideas and it's a breath of fresh air to hear his desire to achieve things here. It's not going to happen over night, if it does then brilliant, if it doesn't then so be it.

I'm more patient now, next season will be interesting. There's going to be some strong teams in this league, the pressure's off slightly for us and who know's what happens. If we can get in to the play-offs i'd be proud of the lads. My main desire is to see a team of players fighting for their lives out there, punching above their weight if they can and a touch of class in the football along the way. If we can do that and there's some quality in the team then the results will always come our way eventually.

Get in to 'em, **** 'em up.

[Chandler]

My expectations are going to be quite low for next season so that if i'm correct I won't be disappointed. I came in for a great shock this season and although it's been a horrible season i've learned a few things on the way. I've learnt that although I want the best for my team, which inevitably is the premiership I actually aren't that bothered that we're not in the premiership at present. Things have caught up with us at this club after certain managers have tried to take short-cuts. Often there isn't ever a short term fix in football and without continuity, team spirit, motivation and quality we won't succeed.

What I want to see Leicester do is build a team of players who are young and hungry for success, players that haven't proven themselves in this game yet and it's their sole desire to do so. Not players that have played in the premiership, been told their not good enough to play there anymore and they come to a club like Leicester for an easy ride and then **** off. If we don't see premiership football for a few years, then so be it. We've been blessed with success at this club under O'Neill and our time will come again. In the mean time, let's get things right. The fans are a long way off being perfect, which ties in with the way the club has been run. If we can get a squad together that can potentially play together for more than a season, the fans will build up a rapport with these lads and the atmosphere will get better.

Everything needs changing, it's a massive job. We could just patch things up and float around for a while, but what good will that do us? Why not be brave and try to build a revolution? The fans want it, happiness means success. Success isn't just judged on trophies in my opinion. Yes, that's what it boils down to on paper, but remember our team looked good on paper last season. The majority of the fans are impressed with Levein's ideas and it's a breath of fresh air to hear his desire to achieve things here. It's not going to happen over night, if it does then brilliant, if it doesn't then so be it.

I'm more patient now, next season will be interesting. There's going to be some strong teams in this league, the pressure's off slightly for us and who know's what happens. If we can get in to the play-offs i'd be proud of the lads. My main desire is to see a team of players fighting for their lives out there, punching above their weight if they can and a touch of class in the football along the way. If we can do that and there's some quality in the team then the results will always come our way eventually.

Get in to 'em, **** 'em up.

113517[/snapback]

Whilst I agree with you that expectations are pretty low amongs the majority of fans I struggle to see that as a good thing. Deep down, it suggests a general lack of confidence in the team and management.

I could understand a laid back approach if we were being asked to move up a level on very poor resources. But we are not. We are in a utilitarian league where we are better equipped than most to do well.

Despite the pervasive gloomy air of resignation (at least on this board) it will be interesting to see how phlegmatic we are after an early home defeat by the likes of er Hartlepool.

[Chimp]

Whilst I agree with you that expectations are pretty low amongs the majority of fans I struggle to see that as a good thing. Deep down, it suggests a general lack of confidence in the team and management. [..]

113683[/snapback]

No. It reflects a more mature and realistic attitude toward the current squad and management. It reflects an understanding that a group of new players need time to gel into a team and that consistency and, hopefully, good results only come after this process is complete.

Had we had this kind of 'phlegmatic' attitude at the start of last season then MA would probably still be managing City.

[Simon]

Whilst I agree with you that expectations are pretty low amongs the majority of fans I struggle to see that as a good thing. Deep down, it suggests a general lack of confidence in the team and management. [..]

113683[/snapback]

No. It reflects a more mature and realistic attitude toward the current squad and management. It reflects an understanding that a group of new players need time to gel into a team and that consistency and, hopefully, good results only come after this process is complete.

Had we had this kind of 'phlegmatic' attitude at the start of last season then MA would probably still be managing City.

113781[/snapback]

I've given up bothering with him Chimp. Whatever you say you 'lose'. If we aim high Channy tells us to calm down, if we are being realistic he then tells us that that is a sign we have no faith in the management, and by implication, therefore, we should aim higher... but oh no... wait a minute...

See where I'm going?

[Chandler]

Whilst I agree with you that expectations are pretty low amongs the majority of fans I struggle to see that as a good thing. Deep down, it suggests a general lack of confidence in the team and management. [..]

113683[/snapback]

No. It reflects a more mature and realistic attitude toward the current squad and management. It reflects an understanding that a group of new players need time to gel into a team and that consistency and, hopefully, good results only come after this process is complete.

Had we had this kind of 'phlegmatic' attitude at the start of last season then MA would probably still be managing City.

113781[/snapback]

I've given up bothering with him Chimp. Whatever you say you 'lose'. If we aim high Channy tells us to calm down, if we are being realistic he then tells us that that is a sign we have no faith in the management, and by implication, therefore, we should aim higher... but oh no... wait a minute...

See where I'm going?

113786[/snapback]

...in the wrong direction (as usual), Cambridge Fox.

My post had nothing to do with DICTATING what our expectations should be. It is everything to do with EXPLAINING why our expectations have dropped off the bottom of the scale. In fact, expectations now are probably lower at LCFC than at any time since the late 1980's.

Our pessimism is an unconscious vote of no confidence in the management. Instead of being honest about the fact that we really feel Levein and his set-up is not up to the play-offs, some fans choose to cover-up for him and offer all sorts of excuses as to why we should not raise our expectations (need to clear up Adams' 'mess', team needs time to gel, jockstraps are too tight etc).

For the record, my expectations are low and I have no intention of conning myself into believing that we will get promotion next year. Whether I am prepared to be philosophical about this situation is a different matter.

Unless our results are as disastrous as Taylor's and/or a very good proven candidate emerges for his job I won't be going in for a 'Levein Out' campaign once the whistle is blown for the new season (which may prove to be a very ironic statement).

Timing is everything in football and Levein should have gone immediately after our abysmal performance against Plymouth Argyle. Unfortunately we didn't get down to the harbour in time to catch that boat.

I suggest a change in direction - a crash course in semantics, perhaps. Or are you doing one of those non academic majors like pole dancing?

[step]

Chandler give up trying to wind people up and try to be constructive

[Leicesterboi]

Chandler give up trying to wind people up and try to be constructive

113875[/snapback]

Here here step

[Chandler]

Chandler give up trying to wind people up and try to be constructive

113875[/snapback]

Here here step

113893[/snapback]

Another one. It's 'hear hear' actually.

[Jonbluefox9]

Timing is everything in football and Levein should have gone immediately after our abysmal performance against Plymouth Argyle. Unfortunately we didn't get down to the harbour in time to catch that boat.

Plymouth was the last game of the season and a different side was played to see what they could do. Why should should he have gone after that game in particular?

[step]

Another one. It's 'hear hear' actually.

113895[/snapback]

Chandler, In the grand scheme of things. Does it realy matter if here is a hear, or hear a here. we all know what each other means. and this is a friendly place for exchanging information and having a bit of banter.

I dont think that even you enjoy these attacks on others all the time. so give it up

[Chimp]

Our pessimism is an unconscious vote of no confidence in the management.  Instead of being honest about the fact that we really feel Levein and his set-up is not up to the play-offs, some fans choose to cover-up for him and offer all sorts of excuses as to why we should not raise our expectations (need to clear up Adams' 'mess', team needs time to gel, jockstraps are too tight etc).

No it's not, don't talk nonsense. It's not pessimism, it's pragmatism. It's understanding football, understanding our current situation and understanding what that brings.

For the record, I felt the exact same way at the start of last season. I couldn't believe the bookies, the media and especially MA had us all but promoted before a ball had been kicked.

Also, how can you cay that giving time for a team to become a team is not important? Surely, one as knowledgeable about football as you claim to be should see the absolute truth in the fact that a group of individuals, no matter their pedigree or skill, will never succeed unless they play as a team?

For the record, my expectations are low and I have no intention of conning myself into believing that we will get promotion next year. Whether I am prepared to be philosophical about this situation is a different matter.

Fine, you do that, as is your right, but don't think for once that your pessimism, short-sightedness and lack of faith is shared by many others.

[Chandler]

Our pessimism is an unconscious vote of no confidence in the management.  Instead of being honest about the fact that we really feel Levein and his set-up is not up to the play-offs, some fans choose to cover-up for him and offer all sorts of excuses as to why we should not raise our expectations (need to clear up Adams' 'mess', team needs time to gel, jockstraps are too tight etc).

No it's not, don't talk nonsense. It's not pessimism, it's pragmatism. It's understanding football, understanding our current situation and understanding what that brings.

For the record, I felt the exact same way at the start of last season. I couldn't believe the bookies, the media and especially MA had us all but promoted before a ball had been kicked.

Also, how can you cay that giving time for a team to become a team is not important? Surely, one as knowledgeable about football as you claim to be should see the absolute truth in the fact that a group of individuals, no matter their pedigree or skill, will never succeed unless they play as a team?

For the record, my expectations are low and I have no intention of conning myself into believing that we will get promotion next year. Whether I am prepared to be philosophical about this situation is a different matter.

Fine, you do that, as is your right, but don't think for once that your pessimism, short-sightedness and lack of faith is shared by many others.

113972[/snapback]

I have never claimed to be knowledgeable about the game, Chimp. That's an observation for others to make. I am, though, an extraordinarily good judge of character (in my line of work I wouldn't survive if I wasn't). And football is a people game.

But relax Chimp, I am not going to bite your head off. Your arguments appear to be reasonable. Nothing that you say is radically wrong. By the same token though, nothing that you say is radically right either.

Your argument (about playing as a team) is what ivory tower intellectuals call 'non falsifiable' ie cannot be proven one way or another. This kind of woolly thinking

plagues football so fans cannot be blamed for picking it up and parroting it.

It is though rather an odd bit of wooliness to be hawking around because if my memory serves me correctly isn't this the problem that Levein has already cracked? You know whenever I point out our winless streaks I am always told that 'at least we are playing as a team again.' The team thing clearly means different things to different people.

Then there is your fatalism. As long as we keep the faith and are patient, LCFC will eventually play as a team and will then be successful. What time scale are you looking at? 2006, 2016 or 2066?

You see I can't jump and down about what you are saying because there is very little that is substantive to disagree with. However, I don't want to give Levein the luxury of a free ride this season because I know what that will mean to him.

That P15 is OK.

[Chimp]

Your argument (about playing as a team) is what ivory tower intellectuals call 'non falsifiable' ie cannot be proven one way or another. This kind of woolly thinking

plagues football so fans cannot be blamed for picking it up and parroting it.

Ok, so saying that it's an 'undeniable truth' was erroneous, this is football after all where there are no guarantees. However, if you ask anyone that is involved with the game, at whatever level, they'll say pretty much the same. A group of players will play better once they get used to each other, ie they've become a team instead of a group of individuals. Maybe not a fact but a generally agreed observation.

It is though rather an odd bit of wooliness to be hawking around because if my memory serves me correctly isn't this the problem that Levein has already cracked? You know whenever I point out our winless streaks I am always told that 'at least we are playing as a team again.' The team thing clearly means different things to different people.

No, because CL is in the same position now that MA was in last season. We've had a large number of players leaving and a large number of players coming in. Even with a pre-season it's going to take time for CL and the team to 'crack it'.

Then there is your fatalism. As long as we keep the faith and are patient, LCFC will eventually play as a team and will then be successful. What time scale are you looking at? 2006, 2016 or 2066?

I'm looking for improvement during next season. As I've said in previous threads we should aim for the play-offs (as any team should do) but I think we would have achieved something positive if we finish in the top 8-10 next season. Who knows what will happen after that. As long as we've improved then it's something to build upon for the future.

You see I can't jump and down about what you are saying because there is very little that is substantive to disagree with. However, I don't want to give Levein the luxury of a free ride this season because I know what that will mean to him.

I'm not giving CL a free ride, if he makes what I consider to be mistakes then I'll speak up. Having said that I will be at the same time concious of other factors that may contribute to his decisions, the players performances on pitch and the results we achieve. This is the same frame of mind that I had at the start of last season.

[Frenzied]

Whilst I agree with you that expectations are pretty low amongs the majority of fans I struggle to see that as a good thing. Deep down, it suggests a general lack of confidence in the team and management. [..]

113683[/snapback]

No. It reflects a more mature and realistic attitude toward the current squad and management. It reflects an understanding that a group of new players need time to gel into a team and that consistency and, hopefully, good results only come after this process is complete.

Had we had this kind of 'phlegmatic' attitude at the start of last season then MA would probably still be managing City.

113781[/snapback]

I've given up bothering with him Chimp. Whatever you say you 'lose'. If we aim high Channy tells us to calm down, if we are being realistic he then tells us that that is a sign we have no faith in the management, and by implication, therefore, we should aim higher... but oh no... wait a minute...

See where I'm going?

113786[/snapback]

...in the wrong direction (as usual), Cambridge Fox.

My post had nothing to do with DICTATING what our expectations should be. It is everything to do with EXPLAINING why our expectations have dropped off the bottom of the scale. In fact, expectations now are probably lower at LCFC than at any time since the late 1980's.

Our pessimism is an unconscious vote of no confidence in the management. Instead of being honest about the fact that we really feel Levein and his set-up is not up to the play-offs, some fans choose to cover-up for him and offer all sorts of excuses as to why we should not raise our expectations (need to clear up Adams' 'mess', team needs time to gel, jockstraps are too tight etc).

For the record, my expectations are low and I have no intention of conning myself into believing that we will get promotion next year. Whether I am prepared to be philosophical about this situation is a different matter.

Unless our results are as disastrous as Taylor's and/or a very good proven candidate emerges for his job I won't be going in for a 'Levein Out' campaign once the whistle is blown for the new season (which may prove to be a very ironic statement).

Timing is everything in football and Levein should have gone immediately after our abysmal performance against Plymouth Argyle. Unfortunately we didn't get down to the harbour in time to catch that boat.

I suggest a change in direction - a crash course in semantics, perhaps. Or are you doing one of those non academic majors like pole dancing?

113833[/snapback]

Chandler, the mess that needs to be cleaned up isn't that of Adams predominantly but rather the fallout from administration. In Adams promotion season he performed an almost impossible task, albeit still with the nucleus of a Premiership squad. We were nonetheless, promoted against the odds.

Unfortunately Adams couldn't keep us in the Premiership, which if he had would have been another minor miracle. However, the strain of administration, conceding late goals, la Manga and the poor form of early last season took its toll on him and he basically cracked under the pressure, although quite understandably.

Levein has inherited the legacy of administration and a team that was faltering badly under Adams' last weeks in charge. Furthermore, Levein has less money to play with than Adams. However, he is a proven rebuilding of teams on a shoestring and, as has been mentioned in numerous other threads, has improved the team's performances dramatically, although there is still a degree of inconsistency.

For you to say he should have been sacked after the Plymouth game is quite absurd - for what? It was the last game of the season with nothing to play for and he was trying a couple of things out. In fact, despite the fact we didn't play too well, we still got a draw away from home.

It's about time you got off your bizarre high-horse when comes to Levein and start backing a manager that has improved the team and has a plan that will hopefully put to rest the legacy of administration - unfortunately that will take years.

[Chandler]

Your argument (about playing as a team) is what ivory tower intellectuals call 'non falsifiable' ie cannot be proven one way or another. This kind of woolly thinking

plagues football so fans cannot be blamed for picking it up and parroting it.

Ok, so saying that it's an 'undeniable truth' was erroneous, this is football after all where there are no guarantees. However, if you ask anyone that is involved with the game, at whatever level, they'll say pretty much the same. A group of players will play better once they get used to each other, ie they've become a team instead of a group of individuals. Maybe not a fact but a generally agreed observation.

It is though rather an odd bit of wooliness to be hawking around because if my memory serves me correctly isn't this the problem that Levein has already cracked? You know whenever I point out our winless streaks I am always told that 'at least we are playing as a team again.' The team thing clearly means different things to different people.

No, because CL is in the same position now that MA was in last season. We've had a large number of players leaving and a large number of players coming in. Even with a pre-season it's going to take time for CL and the team to 'crack it'.

Then there is your fatalism. As long as we keep the faith and are patient, LCFC will eventually play as a team and will then be successful. What time scale are you looking at? 2006, 2016 or 2066?

I'm looking for improvement during next season. As I've said in previous threads we should aim for the play-offs (as any team should do) but I think we would have achieved something positive if we finish in the top 8-10 next season. Who knows what will happen after that. As long as we've improved then it's something to build upon for the future.

You see I can't jump and down about what you are saying because there is very little that is substantive to disagree with. However, I don't want to give Levein the luxury of a free ride this season because I know what that will mean to him.

I'm not giving CL a free ride, if he makes what I consider to be mistakes then I'll speak up. Having said that I will be at the same time concious of other factors that may contribute to his decisions, the players performances on pitch and the results we achieve. This is the same frame of mind that I had at the start of last season.

114075[/snapback]

There is no iron law that states a group of players will necessarily play better once they have been together for a long period of time. Some squads may develop an understanding and a camaraderie, others may become indifferent or end up knocking seven bells out of one another. Teams are made up of people not robots.

You are also being very defensive about what might constitute success this season. Places 8-10 are a discernible improvement only on Levein's record. And whatever your reasons/excuses for his unimpressive showing, remember, he was the one who took us into freefall.

The Leveinites on this board come across like the usual suspects who are struggling to get their story right. The past and future prospects are continuously being revised.

Some of us though have been pretty constant since the 11th Oct last and, so far, have been proved right. Whilst the past is not a guarantee of the future a betting man with a healthy concern for his wallet would be more inclined to take my tip than yours.

And that is: MID TABLE AT BEST