Wikileaks

[leicsmac]

As I said before, Mannings mental state should have no bearing whatsoever on the information that he released. That exists and is damning, regardless of the identity or disposition of the source. It does however go some way to why he violated the rules of his profession in order to release it with little thought for the consequences.

 

When I refer to making up accusations of sexual deviancy I am referring more to Assange than Manning. True or not, through the unproven account of a few people and this being released to the mass media he has been discredited in many peoples eyes. FWIW I think he should stand trial in open court to give an answer once and for all, but this again should not detract from the information the organisation he set up has been able to release to the public.

 

People seem to put a lot of quality in the makeup of the messenger when it's the message that is truly important, and that's why such attempts at discrediting work. It's the information itself (shown in black and white) and the need for greater accountability that's the truly important thing here - not that the people uncovering this information are (maybe or maybe not) loons to general society. There's some truly fvcked-up stuff that goes on around the world if not in our name then the name of our allies, and those responsible are not being held accountable.

[Zingari]

flippin heck this really has to be the last one , it's going round and around now 

 

How many more times does this need saying ?

 

His sexual tendencies are fookin irrelevant other that to his defence team who tried to get sympathy for sentencing. 

 

Everyone claims to look down on the gutter press but keeps repeating the salacious crap as though it has any real meaning 

 

 

this is the sort of stuff they should be investigating .

 

 

 

 

"Instead of fighting tooth and nail to lock him up for the equivalent of several life sentences, the U.S. government should turn its attention to investigating and delivering justice for the serious human rights abuses committed by its officials in the name of countering terror," said Widney Brown, senior director of international law and policy at Amnesty International.

Reuters and the Los Angeles Times

[Zingari]

I'm glad you're around leicmac   

[MooseBreath]

Can see your point more with the Assange case but with Manning I think you're looking for a conspiracy where there isn't one. He wants to be a woman, the media are reporting it as a matter of minor interest. His sentence has already been decided so it makes no difference either way. There is no conspiracy, just a weird little man who likes wearing skirts and who is going to have the time of his life in prison.

[ADK]

I saw the footage of those civilians being killed. I think the public benefits from being able to see the atrocities that are carried out by their countries armed forces. Obviously different people will interpret things differently but it's better for the information to be out there.

[Zingari]

I saw the footage of those civilians being killed. I think the public benefits from being able to see the atrocities that are carried out by their countries armed forces. Obviously different people will interpret things differently but it's better for the information to be out there.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!

 

It's much more important we know that he's a creepy little pervert that dresses up in ladies attire .

[MooseBreath]

What if he had released info that allowed terrorists to learn the best way to plant a bomb at the walkers stadium on match day?

We're all dead but hey, at least we know some mid ranking soldier accidentally mistook a civilian for an enemy soldier in the middle of a shootout in a warzone in Iraq.

[leicsmac]

Can see your point more with the Assange case but with Manning I think you're looking for a conspiracy where there isn't one. He wants to be a woman, the media are reporting it as a matter of minor interest. His sentence has already been decided so it makes no difference either way. There is no conspiracy, just a weird little man who likes wearing skirts and who is going to have the time of his life in prison.

 

Agree with you here, but like I said the fact he's odd doesn't make the information he released any less true or viable.

[leicsmac]

What if he had released info that allowed terrorists to learn the best way to plant a bomb at the walkers stadium on match day?

We're all dead but hey, at least we know some mid ranking soldier accidentally mistook a civilian for an enemy soldier in the middle of a shootout in a warzone in Iraq.

 

That's a pretty big what if, understand you were being hypothetical though.

 

This is the problem..there's a balance between maintaining national security by making sure 'bad people' of whatever kind cannot know things they could potentially exploit and corrupt officials using that same excuse to justify/cover up varying bad things and so remain unaccountable for them. 

 

Do the ends always justify the means? It's a tough question. I don't think so, personally.

[Zingari]

What if he had released info that allowed terrorists to learn the best way to plant a bomb at the walkers stadium on match day?

We're all dead but hey, at least we know some mid ranking soldier accidentally mistook a civilian for an enemy soldier in the middle of a shootout in a warzone in Iraq.

Are you seriously suggesting that these well trained terrorists who have shown ( supposedly) to be capable of hijacking four commercial airliners , avoid detection and interception in the most heavily fortified airspace in the world . 

 

They are then capable enough to fly these aircraft with pinpoint precision , executing amazing piloting skills and hit the most iconic buildings in New York and the military defence centre of the whole US. But somehow they   would struggle to blow up a poxy stadium if the didn't have some secret military  information  ?

[Webbo]

Didn't Wikileaks publish the names of Afghans who had co operated with coalition forces, making them a target for reprisals?

[Guest MattP]

 

Are you seriously suggesting that these well trained terrorists who have shown ( supposedly) to be capable of hijacking four commercial airliners , avoid detection and interception in the most heavily fortified airspace in the world . 

 

They are then capable enough to fly these aircraft with pinpoint precision , executing amazing piloting skills and hit the most iconic buildings in New York and the military defence centre of the whole US. But somehow they   would struggle to blow up a poxy stadium if the didn't have some secret military  information  ?

 

 

Anyone could bomb the Walkers if they really wanted to, it wouldn't be hard would it? You don't go through any sort of real security into the ground.

 

Didn't Wikileaks publish the names of Afghans who had co operated with coalition forces, making them a target for reprisals?

 

Yep, some of the stuff that site published was horrific, as I said earlier, one of my own friends started getting death threats from something that site produced and it was nothing to do with him.

 

If I could pull the trigger on Assange myself I would do it.

[leicsmac]

Didn't Wikileaks publish the names of Afghans who had co operated with coalition forces, making them a target for reprisals?

 

"In October, the Pentagon concluded that the leak "did not disclose any sensitive intelligence sources or methods", and that furthermore "there has not been a single case of Afghans needing protection or to be moved because of the leak.""

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/10/16/wikileaks.assessment/index.html?hpt=T2

 

So no.

 

Of course, the Pentagon might have lied.   

[Webbo]

"In October, the Pentagon concluded that the leak "did not disclose any sensitive intelligence sources or methods", and that furthermore "there has not been a single case of Afghans needing protection or to be moved because of the leak.""

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/10/16/wikileaks.assessment/index.html?hpt=T2

 

So no.

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said there is still concern Afghans named in the published documents could be retaliated against by the Taliban, though a NATO official said there has been no indication that this has happened.

 

So they could just be waiting until we leave.

[Zingari]

So they could just be waiting until we leave.

Sounds like you don't trust the government to tell the truth , or at least are not totally open and honest with the situation 

[Webbo]

Sounds like you don't trust the government to tell the truth , or at least are not totally open and honest with the situation 

Tbh I don't expect them to tell us the whole truth. Sometimes govts need to do unsavoury things and I except that.

 

The fact that Assange revealed the names of those Afghans and exposed them to danger, whether it actually happened or not, shows a rather nasty, narcissistic streak. 

[MooseBreath]

Are you seriously suggesting that these well trained terrorists who have shown ( supposedly) to be capable of hijacking four commercial airliners , avoid detection and interception in the most heavily fortified airspace in the world .

They are then capable enough to fly these aircraft with pinpoint precision , executing amazing piloting skills and hit the most iconic buildings in New York and the military defence centre of the whole US. But somehow they would struggle to blow up a poxy stadium if the didn't have some secret military information ?

Just an example.

Are you seriously suggesting that leaking confidential military information to the enemy has no potential whatsoever to aid the enemy?

[Zingari]

Tbh I don't expect them to tell us the whole truth. Sometimes govts need to do unsavoury things and I except that.

 

The fact that Assange revealed the names of those Afghans and exposed them to danger, whether it actually happened or not, shows a rather nasty, narcissistic streak. 

i don't trust decorators to tell the truth . 

the last fooker i had told me it was 4 days work and the bastrad took 4 days but about at 3 hours a day. 

 

he told me  some good jokes though 

[Webbo]

i don't trust decorators to tell the truth . 

the last fooker i had told me it was 4 days work and the bastrad took 4 days but about at 3 hours a day. 

 

he told me  some good jokes though 

You didn't leave him alone with the missus did you? Decorators are like catnip to women.

[leicsmac]

So they could just be waiting until we leave.

 

Certainly possible, but the only reason I can think of for that is that they cannot be gotten to right now. The Taliban are hardly squeamish when it comes to killing in groteqsue fashion.

 

Tbh I don't expect them to tell us the whole truth. Sometimes govts need to do unsavoury things and I except that.

 

The fact that Assange revealed the names of those Afghans and exposed them to danger, whether it actually happened or not, shows a rather nasty, narcissistic streak. 

 

I can't trust those in power as far as I can throw them. If they do unsavoury things, they need to be known and judged for them by the people who have elected them. That's the very essence of a democracy.

 

But they haven't released those names, as was said above, as far as we know anyway.

 

Just an example.

Are you seriously suggesting that leaking confidential military information to the enemy has no potential whatsoever to aid the enemy?

 

Depends on the information. Again it's a balance between security and accountability.

[Zingari]

Just an example.

Are you seriously suggesting that leaking confidential military information to the enemy has no potential whatsoever to aid the enemy?

of course , but leaking military information about war crimes should still be taken seriously.

 

here's an example for you to consider if you want to be hypothetical.

 

what if you were a low level guard at Auschwitz and were aware of the holocaust , should you try to blow the whistle or be patriotic and do as you're told rather than give secrets away .

 

all i'm saying is that there can't be carte blanche on secrecy 

 

 

5 more posts than i intended 

[Webbo]

 

 

But they haven't released those names, as was said above, as far as we know anyway.

 

 

According to this quote in the link you posted they have.

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said there is still concern Afghans named in the published documents could be retaliated against by the Taliban, though a NATO official said there has been no indication that this has happened.

 

 

 

[Zingari]

You didn't leave him alone with the missus did you? Decorators are like catnip to women.

come to think of it she did stink of turps for a few days after . i thought it was cheap poundland perfume 

[MooseBreath]

of course , but leaking military information about war crimes should still be taken seriously.

here's an example for you to consider if you want to be hypothetical.

what if you were a low level guard at Auschwitz and were aware of the holocaust , should you try to blow the whistle or be patriotic and do as you're told rather than give secrets away .

all i'm saying is that there can't be carte blanche on secrecy

5 more posts than i intended

You should voice your concerns through the appropriate channels. If you're not happy after that, then plan to quit.

[leicsmac]

 

According to this quote in the link you posted they have.

 

 

 

That'll bloody well teach me for not reading properly 

 

Well, in that case I'm assuming there was a plan in place to protect these individuals if their cover was blown and that should be put into effect. In fact it should be/has been done anyway regardless just to be sure these guys don't get nailed once we do leave...surely that's SOP for informants/double agents in any situation, unless you really want to leave them to swing.

 

Edit: The rest of my post still stands, though.