Wikileaks

[Guest MattP]

Dressing up in womans clothes is a bit different to intending to live out your life as a woman.

 

It was presented to the court wasn't it? Can't blame the media for reporting this.

[Zingari]

Dressing up in womans clothes is a bit different to intending to live out your life as a woman.

 

It was presented to the court wasn't it? Can't blame the media for reporting this.

IMO , it's nothing to do with the rights and wrongs of his action though.

 

The media did a similar job on that bloke who supposed to have committed suicide by locking himself in a sports bag a while back.

And David Shayler was treated in the same way. 

 

It's distraction from the core issues , which are very very serious . 

We become more interested in the tittle tattle of his life that what he stood up against 

[Guest MattP]

IMO , it's nothing to do with the rights and wrongs of his action though.

 

The media did a similar job on that bloke who supposed to have committed suicide by locking himself in a sports bag a while back.

And David Shayler was treated in the same way. 

 

It's distraction from the core issues , which are very very serious . 

We become more interested in the tittle tattle of his life that what he stood up against 

 

He wouldn't be the first gay to end up killing themselves in the middle of some sick perverted act though would he?

 

I'll never forget this gay I worked with at Sainsburys, the dirty bastard managed to hang himself on the meat hooks after sneaking to do whatever it was at night.

[Zingari]

He wouldn't be the first gay to end up killing themselves in the middle of some sick perverted act though would he?

 

I'll never forget this gay I worked with at Sainsburys, the dirty bastard managed to hang himself on the meat hooks after sneaking to do whatever it was at night.

That's not the point though .

We should be totally focused on the rights and wrongs of his disclosures.

All the other shit is just waving the magicians cane to distract us from what's the reality and trickery 

 

 

 

I'm fairly sure straight, gays, bisexuals etc have all indulged in stuff that's best left in the gutter press .

 

i'm sure even Big John Steader is not the Mr Squeaky clean he pretends to be 

[The Doctor]

Where the **** was Snowden meant to go?

 

Back to Snowdonia national park? Surprised the CIA hired a mountain in the first place though.

[MooseBreath]

Well there's no prizes for guessing what he's going to be spending most of his time in prison doing. He's probably looking forward to being the prison queen for the next 35 years.

[leicsmac]

He wouldn't be the first gay to end up killing themselves in the middle of some sick perverted act though would he?

 

I'll never forget this gay I worked with at Sainsburys, the dirty bastard managed to hang himself on the meat hooks after sneaking to do whatever it was at night.

 

Last time I checked, the gay population didn't have a monopoly on perversion. I'm sure many straight lads have...'interesting' tastes too.

[Guest MattP]

Last time I checked, the gay population didn't have a monopoly on perversion. I'm sure many straight lads have...'interesting' tastes too.

 

Not a monopoly, they are certainly errr.. 'kinkier' shall we say?

[leicsmac]

Not a monopoly, they are certainly errr.. 'kinkier' shall we say?

 

No disagreement there.

 

In any case, this new development (attempt at slander or not) has nothing to do with the veracity of the information he uncovered. It does suggest that he wasn't, shall we say, in a frame of mind suitable for a military career when he did what he did but again that shouldn't cast dispersions on his actions. It does however go some way to explaining them.

[foz.foz]

IMO , it's nothing to do with the rights and wrongs of his action though.

 

The media did a similar job on that bloke who supposed to have committed suicide by locking himself in a sports bag a while back.

And David Shayler was treated in the same way. 

 

It's distraction from the core issues , which are very very serious . 

We become more interested in the tittle tattle of his life that what he stood up against 

The media usually throw in some "sexually orientated" spin on a story to make someone look bad. Take a look at this documentry, about Julian Assange. Bradley will get a similar kind of tabloid treatment.

 

Edit. The link I've posted has already been mentioned by OzFox on post 108. apologies people.

[Guest MattP]

Isn't Assange wanted in Sweden for sexual assault?

 

They can't be making up all this sexual deviancy.

[leicsmac]

Isn't Assange wanted in Sweden for sexual assault?

They can't be making up all this sexual deviancy.

Why not? It's a very clever accusation, as even unproved it can wreck reputations and rob the accused of legitimacy, as well as dividing the main body of support for such people. And as it does its job without being proved it can be used multiple times.

[foz.foz]

Matt. Watch the video in the link I just posted. Makes you wonder wtf really happened

 

Edit. The link I've posted has already been mentioned by OzFox on post 108. apologies people.

[Guest MattP]

Matt. Watch the video in the link I just posted. Makes you wonder wtf really happened

 

I'm working late at the minute but I'll give it a watch tomorrow.

 

Why not? It's a very clever accusation, as even unproved it can wreck reputations and rob the accused of legitimacy, as well as dividing the main body of support for such people. And as it does its job without being proved it can be used multiple times.

 

Sweden complicit? I find that to hard to believe. We're talking serious NWO stuff is that's true, everyone would be involved.

[Guest MattP]

Just been on NBC. It was a statement from Manning himself about wanting to be a woman. Complete with pictures.

He wont be allowed to wear a bra or a wig whilst in prison.

[Zingari]

I'm working late at the minute but I'll give it a watch tomorrow.

 

 

Sweden complicit? I find that to hard to believe. We're talking serious NWO stuff is that's true, everyone would be involved.

Why does "Sweden" need to be "complicit"?

It's like saying the whole of Italy or Sicily must be involved and part of a conspiracy in creating the mafia. 

 

There only need be a few people in Sweden  to make the accusations,throw some shite around , get a few feminists demanding the accusations are "thoroughly investigated" and the "evil man" is brought to justice ( I think you'll agree that's not hard to do )

 

A compliant media then picks up the story and sells it to us.

Much easier than doing all that complicated investigative stuff they like pride themselves on , but ultimately doesn't sell newspapers.  (and probably endangers their own lives and careers) 

 

The legal system there needs to act on accusations , but doesn't need to actively be "involved" 

Don't you see how simple the trick really is to destroy the credibility of someone or distract from the core issues ?

 

 

Whom the gods wish to destroy ,they first make mad !

 

In the modern age this can be taken to mean angry or mentally disturbed in any way. And nothing sells like sex .

 

Conspiracies are really very very easy if you've got the right people pulling a few strings .

 

 

Just out of interest try this .

Look up the name Leslie Groves and the word "compartmentalization" to  see how easy thousands and thousands of people can be involved in complex projects not knowing what the true goal is .( this of course was the Manhattan project and obviously needed to be done this way and understandable why )

 

But this is how "bad" conspiracies work too , with most people totally unaware of the big picture .

 

edit ;

just seen your post fozfoz and will try to watch later , i already am aware of these dirty tricks though 

[Rincewind]

Actually I agree with you about the newspapers and manipulation news stories not so much to trick the public but enhancing beliefs already lurking inside their head. One or two headlines, a chat in the pub with a bloke who has a relative that knows for sure of a dozen others like in the story then some social media posts and before you know it the Government of the time has rushed through a load of controversial policies of  which the public are now saying about time too.

The ones pointing out the flaws are often regarded as the crazy ones.

There may well have been some rebel leaders 'taken out' because their activities could affect trade and economy of big businesses. A few words and backhanders to influential politicians and hey presto the leader is now a baby eating madman intent on murdering all his people.

But that is as far as I'll go with conspiracies. There are some which would be too complex to arrange.

 

Abe Lincoln said it best which is why it's in my sig.

[breadandcheese]

 

Why does "Sweden" need to be "complicit"?

It's like saying the whole of Italy or Sicily must be involved and part of a conspiracy in creating the mafia. 

 

There only need be a few people in Sweden  to make the accusations,throw some shite around , get a few feminists demanding the accusations are "thoroughly investigated" and the "evil man" is brought to justice ( I think you'll agree that's not hard to do )

 

A compliant media then picks up the story and sells it to us.

Much easier than doing all that complicated investigative stuff they like pride themselves on , but ultimately doesn't sell newspapers.  (and probably endangers their own lives and careers) 

 

The legal system there needs to act on accusations , but doesn't need to actively be "involved" 

Don't you see how simple the trick really is to destroy the credibility of someone or distract from the core issues ?

 

 

Whom the gods wish to destroy ,they first make mad !

 

In the modern age this can be taken to mean angry or mentally disturbed in any way. And nothing sells like sex .

 

Conspiracies are really very very easy if you've got the right people pulling a few strings .

 

 

Just out of interest try this .

Look up the name Leslie Groves and the word "compartmentalization" to  see how easy thousands and thousands of people can be involved in complex projects not knowing what the true goal is .( this of course was the Manhattan project and obviously needed to be done this way and understandable why )

 

But this is how "bad" conspiracies work too , with most people totally unaware of the big picture .

 

edit ;

just seen your post fozfoz and will try to watch later , i already am aware of these dirty tricks though 

 

 

The Swedish legal system is not some mickey-mouse banana republic system.  

 

Furthermore, your basis of support for Assange is on the basis that he is some sort of innocent benign influence.  I would argue that he is politically motivated, self-indulgent, and rather cold-hearted and selfish in his approach.  Look at the way he treated Manning using him as a patsy.  Even the Guardian backed away from working with Assange after they realised what he's like.  Bearing in mind the guardian has worked with some pretty questionable people in the past, even they backed away from him.

 

With regards Manning, the media have not tried to smear him as a sexually deviant or anything like that.  He is somebody with gender issues, who has now decided for himself.  Once again, he was a mixed up kid who was used by Wikileaks.

 

I pose the question again that if Manning had leaked the information to the Washington Post, would he have got the sentence he did?  In my opinion, no.  

[Zingari]

The Swedish legal system is not some mickey-mouse banana republic system.  

 

Furthermore, your basis of support for Assange is on the basis that he is some sort of innocent benign influence.  I would argue that he is politically motivated, self-indulgent, and rather cold-hearted and selfish in his approach.  Look at the way he treated Manning using him as a patsy.  Even the Guardian backed away from working with Assange after they realised what he's like.  Bearing in mind the guardian has worked with some pretty questionable people in the past, even they backed away from him.

 

With regards Manning, the media have not tried to smear him as a sexually deviant or anything like that.  He is somebody with gender issues, who has now decided for himself.  Once again, he was a mixed up kid who was used by Wikileaks.

 

I pose the question again that if Manning had leaked the information to the Washington Post, would he have got the sentence he did?  In my opinion, no.  

Sorry but these are no more than  your opinions with absolutely nothing to back them up. How can anyone guess why he didn't use the mass established media .

Surely the very existence of Wikileaks suggest that they aren't that trustworthy anymore.

Actually I agree with you about the newspapers and manipulation news stories not so much to trick the public but enhancing beliefs already lurking inside their head. One or two headlines, a chat in the pub with a bloke who has a relative that knows for sure of a dozen others like in the story then some social media posts and before you know it the Government of the time has rushed through a load of controversial policies of  which the public are now saying about time too.

The ones pointing out the flaws are often regarded as the crazy ones.

There may well have been some rebel leaders 'taken out' because their activities could affect trade and economy of big businesses. A few words and backhanders to influential politicians and hey presto the leader is now a baby eating madman intent on murdering all his people.

But that is as far as I'll go with conspiracies. There are some which would be too complex to arrange.

 

Abe Lincoln said it best which is why it's in my sig.

“Conspiracy theories†seem to be the quintessentially cognitive dissonant concepts of our culture. For many people, the idea that small criminal elements of society are capable of so much manipulation of the goverment , military and media threatens the entire fabric of our consciousness. These things simply cannot be true and people will bend over backwards and resort to irrationality and ridicule to avoid considering them.

 

As I've tried to explain with the Manhattan Project , very few people can easily control huge masses of people to create something as elaborate an atomic bomb with no-one ( other than the few) knowing the final goal. Even Truman knew nothing of it until he became president .

 

All I ask is for everyone to consider the possibility that this method can be used over and over again for all sorts of purposes both Good and Bad . 

 

Would you find it unbelievable that the Chinese or Russians would conspire to mislead the masses ? Probably not , so why trust western governments .

 

The arguments against such as  "It's unbelievable , too many people would need to be involved " or " someone would talk and blow the whistle on the whole thing "  or " our government wouldn't do this to us" , have been dealt with over and over again ,and proven to be irrelevant nonsense.

Haven't we seen enough of what happens to those that dare speak . 

 

 But of course it doesn't stop people from keep repeating them as I'm sure  it's some sort of  refuge .

 

 

 

Footnote (to those who believe in conspiracies too) 

 

Cognitive dissonance can work both ways though. It is extremely difficult to maintain a vigilantly open mind. Whatever your dominant perspective or worldview happens to be, it is inevitable that you will sometimes use rationalizations in order to save the time or mental stress of dealing with conflicting information. Cognitive dissonance is actually a necessary and natural mental function, but it is also a phenomenon that we should be aware of, in ourselves and others, as it is a process that does not always serve us well in the quest for objectivity and truth

[breadandcheese]

 

Sorry but these are no more than  your opinions with absolutely nothing to back them up. How can anyone guess why he didn't use the mass established media .

Surely the very existence of Wikileaks suggest that they aren't that trustworthy anymore.

 

 

Some of them are opinions, some facts.  Why is wikileaks any more trustworthy than established media? 

[Zingari]

Some of them are opinions, some facts.  Why is wikileaks any more trustworthy than established media? 

I ain't saying it is , but why do they seem so unwilling to deal with issues raised ?

 

Why are they so concerned with his supposed sexual deviance  ?

 

Don't these questions trouble you in the slightest . 

 

Bradley Manning is only one in a long line of whistle-blowers that never seem to get much exposure for what they say , but an incredible amount for whatever sexual tendencies they may have .( or seem to develop once they become troublesome)

 

How did he get to be in such a position in the military if he was such an obvious and unstable threat?

 

 

Even you keep banging on about whatever sexual tendencies he may have rather that trying to see if what he's said just might be true .

 

May I just add that i in no way said the Swedish legal system was mickey mouse banana republic , i said it was duty bound to take the alleged offences seriously . I really don't see how that in any way can be construed any differently 

 

anyway i've probably banged on too much about it for  the time being 

[MooseBreath]

Bradley Manning himself said he wants to live as a woman, and it has been reported as a minor side issue, after he has already been sentenced. So if this was some government conspiracy to slander his image, it is 1) impressive that they got the woman herself involved, 2) not really working as the media don't seem that bothered and 3) pointless anyway because he is already in the can.

[Zingari]

Bradley Manning himself said he wants to live as a woman, and it has been reported as a minor side issue, after he has already been sentenced. So if this was some government conspiracy to slander his image, it is 1) impressive that they got the woman herself involved, 2) not really working as the media don't seem that bothered and 3) pointless anyway because he is already in the can.

Final word from me , yes really this time 

 

Maybe he was everything the media is portraying him to be , but it's still irrelevant to what he has tried to expose.

 

However . 

It's very difficult now for anyone to portray Manning as some sort of heroic living martyr now .

and It's very difficult to garner more support for him now.

 

The  opposition to his arrest , illegal detainment , and imprisonment will be severely diluted .Because no one will want to associate themselves with this "whacko" now 

 

Another old and simple but very effective trick.

[MooseBreath]

How did they get him involved? Has he been brainwashed into saying he wants to be a woman? What about the photo of him dressed as a woman? Is that a fake? Why release this now, after sentencing, when support for him matters less than ever?

Maybe some things are just true.

[breadandcheese]

 

Final word from me , yes really this time 

 

Maybe he was everything the media is portraying him to be , but it's still irrelevant to what he has tried to expose.

 

However . 

It's very difficult now for anyone to portray Manning as some sort of heroic living martyr now .

and It's very difficult to garner more support for him now.

 

The  opposition to his arrest , illegal detainment , and imprisonment will be severely diluted .Because no one will want to associate themselves with this "whacko" now 

 

Another old and simple but very effective trick.

 

 

So should the media have suppressed this news?  Remember, it's not a slur, it is a fact, and a central fact, which Manning and his defence team used in court to partially explain his emotional issues and decision making.  

 

I find it ironic that you're upset with the media publishing information into the public domain.