Stumbling blocks

[Mack]

There was a very obvious contrast between our opponents on Saturday and last night.

Burnley had come to play their own game, confident in their ability to impose their own style of play and positives on the game they were not overly bothered with studying video, pro zone or scout reports of Leicester City.

As a result we were allowed to play to our strengths and rolled them over with some ease. And it's not the first time a team has come to the Walkers confident in their own ability and have found us a force too strong when allowed to enact our game plan.

In contrast Palace were highly briefed and superbly prepared for the task in front of them. It was clear Freedman had used every piece of information, stat and video to work out how we go about our business and had set his team up to spoil. Our wide players were consistently forced inside by double teaming on the flanks, and Wellens and co were left shrugging their shoulders whilst trying to find a telling pass while Palace had their whole team behind the ball and in effective positions to snuff us out.

And whilst they never really looked liked scoring until Weale gifted them the lead their efforts left us looking a shadow of ourselves in comparison to our performance on Saturday.

This thread of teams finding success at the Walker's when they have done their homework can been seen right though our run in, with Norwich and Portsmouth both claiming victories having done their prep work and snuffed out Sven's game plan.

Now Sven has been here a while there is a vast array of stats and footage of his teams performance for wiley Managers to pour over and hatch a game plan to put a stop to our threats, and whilst we can all point in frustration at times to goalkeeping errors, wayward passes and chances missed I cant help feeling if we are to achieve our goal this or next season Sven and his coaching staff have to come up with a plan B to deploy in game when our plan A of passing and raiding full backs is spoilt by an organised opponent sent out to spoil like last night.

In the end last night we reverted to the good old industrial long ball with Steve Howard as the target.

Sven must be able to come up with something better than that. In the Championship you cant play pure passing quality football as your only weapon and hope that the righteous values of playing the game the beautiful way will conquer all. Sometimes you need to win rough hard fast and ugly, and right now that is a stumbling block.

[Babylon]

Sven must be able to come up with something better than that. In the Championship you cant play pure passing quality football as your only weapon and hope that the righteous values of playing the game the beautiful way will conquer all. Sometimes you need to win rough hard fast and ugly, and right now that is a stumbling block.

Sven has said it himself that technically we are one of the best in the league, but we aren't strong enough and aren't good enough when it turned into a battle.

I think he knows the problem, whether he can solve it is a different matter. The summer transfer market is going to be key as it seems like the players we have aren't able to dominate a fight.

[smudgerfox]

You could add to that a naiivety when confronted by streetwise tactics. In another thread someone has asked why Palace players got so angry at the end of the match - well it's obvious - they were causing time-consuming conflagrations - for which a yellow or even a red card was a minor convenience as compared to a precious point. A few examples of our own naiivety in the closing minutes

Cross from the left to the backpost finds two Leicester shirts unmarked. It's a situation which should at the very least produce a shot on target but they both contrive to miss the ball altogether and the ball runs out for a time-consuming goal kick

Ball played down the line to PVA - he's closed down immediately tight to the touchline - a throw-in to us seems a minimum outcome - but PVA takes his eye off it, lets it run out under his foot and CP take ages to take the unexpected throw in

Wellens gets the ball tight to the goal line wide on the left - again he's tightly closed down but a corner is available by simply slamming the ball into his opponent. He tries something more elaborate and ends up conceding another goal kick

The PVA free kick in injury time - goes for glory, when a "percentage" ball into the box might have been a more productive if less spectacular option..

These were all relatively minor incidents but each one halted our momentum and failed to capitalise on the territorial advantage we'd established.

[breadandcheese]

The biggest stumbling block has been our lack of a good goalkeeper. Goalkeeper errors have cost us 8-10 points throughout the season (whether it be Weale, Kirkland, Ricardo). With those points, we would be battling for automatic promotion and a result like last night would be seen as frustrating but not serious.

[FoxyPV]

The biggest stumbling block has been our lack of a good goalkeeper. Goalkeeper errors have cost us 8-10 points throughout the season (whether it be Weale, Kirkland, Ricardo). With those points, we would be battling for automatic promotion and a result like last night would be seen as frustrating but not serious.

[Rusko187]

There was a very obvious contrast between our opponents on Saturday and last night.

Burnley had come to play their own game, confident in their ability to impose their own style of play and positives on the game they were not overly bothered with studying video, pro zone or scout reports of Leicester City.

As a result we were allowed to play to our strengths and rolled them over with some ease. And it's not the first time a team has come to the Walkers confident in their own ability and have found us a force too strong when allowed to enact our game plan.

In contrast Palace were highly briefed and superbly prepared for the task in front of them. It was clear Freedman had used every piece of information, stat and video to work out how we go about our business and had set his team up to spoil. Our wide players were consistently forced inside by double teaming on the flanks, and Wellens and co were left shrugging their shoulders whilst trying to find a telling pass while Palace had their whole team behind the ball and in effective positions to snuff us out.

And whilst they never really looked liked scoring until Weale gifted them the lead their efforts left us looking a shadow of ourselves in comparison to our performance on Saturday.

This thread of teams finding success at the Walker's when they have done their homework can been seen right though our run in, with Norwich and Portsmouth both claiming victories having done their prep work and snuffed out Sven's game plan.

Now Sven has been here a while there is a vast array of stats and footage of his teams performance for wiley Managers to pour over and hatch a game plan to put a stop to our threats, and whilst we can all point in frustration at times to goalkeeping errors, wayward passes and chances missed I cant help feeling if we are to achieve our goal this or next season Sven and his coaching staff have to come up with a plan B to deploy in game when our plan A of passing and raiding full backs is spoilt by an organised opponent sent out to spoil like last night.

In the end last night we reverted to the good old industrial long ball with Steve Howard as the target.

Sven must be able to come up with something better than that. In the Championship you cant play pure passing quality football as your only weapon and hope that the righteous values of playing the game the beautiful way will conquer all. Sometimes you need to win rough hard fast and ugly, and right now that is a stumbling block.

Brilliantly put, our style of football was neutralised by them on an all out defensive style and we can't seem to win games any other way.

[Mack]

The biggest stumbling block has been our lack of a good goalkeeper. Goalkeeper errors have cost us 8-10 points throughout the season (whether it be Weale, Kirkland, Ricardo). With those points, we would be battling for automatic promotion and a result like last night would be seen as frustrating but not serious.

You could also add two wins out of the Sousa debacle would see us top 6 right now.

In the end we can only affect what happens from now on.

[Ricey]

Could not agree more.

It's very easy to stop us playing, too easy in fact. It's frustrating seeing teams put 10-men behind the ball, but you can fully understand why they do it.

Next season we need a starting-11 that can play 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. If a team is sitting back, we can easily change.

On the plus side, I can't see Reading, Forest, Watford, Doncaster or Ipswich sitting back against us. Not to the extent that Palace and Pompey did anyway.

[carterfox90]

There was a very obvious contrast between our opponents on Saturday and last night.

Burnley had come to play their own game, confident in their ability to impose their own style of play and positives on the game they were not overly bothered with studying video, pro zone or scout reports of Leicester City.

As a result we were allowed to play to our strengths and rolled them over with some ease. And it's not the first time a team has come to the Walkers confident in their own ability and have found us a force too strong when allowed to enact our game plan.

In contrast Palace were highly briefed and superbly prepared for the task in front of them. It was clear Freedman had used every piece of information, stat and video to work out how we go about our business and had set his team up to spoil. Our wide players were consistently forced inside by double teaming on the flanks, and Wellens and co were left shrugging their shoulders whilst trying to find a telling pass while Palace had their whole team behind the ball and in effective positions to snuff us out.

And whilst they never really looked liked scoring until Weale gifted them the lead their efforts left us looking a shadow of ourselves in comparison to our performance on Saturday.

This thread of teams finding success at the Walker's when they have done their homework can been seen right though our run in, with Norwich and Portsmouth both claiming victories having done their prep work and snuffed out Sven's game plan.

Now Sven has been here a while there is a vast array of stats and footage of his teams performance for wiley Managers to pour over and hatch a game plan to put a stop to our threats, and whilst we can all point in frustration at times to goalkeeping errors, wayward passes and chances missed I cant help feeling if we are to achieve our goal this or next season Sven and his coaching staff have to come up with a plan B to deploy in game when our plan A of passing and raiding full backs is spoilt by an organised opponent sent out to spoil like last night.

In the end last night we reverted to the good old industrial long ball with Steve Howard as the target.

Sven must be able to come up with something better than that. In the Championship you cant play pure passing quality football as your only weapon and hope that the righteous values of playing the game the beautiful way will conquer all. Sometimes you need to win rough hard fast and ugly, and right now that is a stumbling block.

spot on!!!!! :thumbup: last night showed we are to one dimensional & cant pull our sleeves up & battle i think we all know now the play offs are'nt going to happen!!! :scarf:

[MattyFromLE]

I think it was obvious last night that Palace had watched the game from Saturday. Whenever Wellens, Yak or Kamara got the ball there was instantly 2/3 players on them within seconds.

Its been said time and time again, we aren't strong enough and teams marking Wellens out of the game, makes us struggle as there is no creative influence, as King was anonymous last night, Oakley was brilliant, but is never going to pick the perfect through ball.

Last night was dissapointing, but its still not technically over - just think how good next season could be if we don't go up this year.

[Babylon]

The biggest stumbling block has been our lack of a good goalkeeper. Goalkeeper errors have cost us 8-10 points throughout the season (whether it be Weale, Kirkland, Ricardo). With those points, we would be battling for automatic promotion and a result like last night would be seen as frustrating but not serious.

I think that's far too simplistic to be honest, you could easily point out mistakes by any player that has potentially cost us points. Whether it was a striker missing a sitter, a defender not defending or a midfielder not winning a ball or tracking a runner that has cost us points.

[lcfc_jme]

Burnley had come to play their own game, confident in their ability to impose their own style of play and positives on the game they were not overly bothered with studying video, pro zone or scout reports of Leicester City.

As a result we were allowed to play to our strengths and rolled them over with some ease. And it's not the first time a team has come to the Walkers confident in their own ability and have found us a force too strong when allowed to enact our game plan.

That should surely bode well for us in our next two, then? I can't see Reading or Forest being overly concerned with neutralising us considering that playing their own way and imposing their own style, one is in great form and the other seem to win home games without even trying.

Sven must be able to come up with something better than that. In the Championship you cant play pure passing quality football as your only weapon and hope that the righteous values of playing the game the beautiful way will conquer all. Sometimes you need to win rough hard fast and ugly, and right now that is a stumbling block.

I would say that's not exactly true, in all honesty. Certainly West Brom, and even Blackpool to an extent, won promotion from this division cutting teams to pieces playing along the floor. It can happen, provided you've got the right personnel - which we have not, if truth be told. We've not got a good enough goalkeeper, and we don't have the two out-and-out, quality, consistent wingers Sven would usually look for in a team.

Yes, a team needs a plan B, that much is clear. Especially in the winter months when games are more of a battle and pitches get cut up. But if we also have aspirations of storming this division, going up and staying there, we need to be able to play our own way, impose that on most teams and worry them into changing their own gameplan if they're to cope with us.