Salieri Posted 23 October 2011 Posted 23 October 2011 None of this would have happened if we kept wayne brown! had recalled DJ.
Gazza M Posted 23 October 2011 Posted 23 October 2011 Yesterday was obviously very, very disapointing! However, I think knee jerk reactions would be totally wrong. Just chopping and changing players and as some people have suggested, the manager, would be extremely harmful to our chances this season. It's important that we don't panic as a club after one very bad performance. We need to find that consistency again, which we had just leading up to the Birmingham game. We have to learn to stop shooting ourselves in the foot as we have done this year, e.g twice in that match when Mills lost his head and King gave away a needless penalty. I'm expecting a battle next week at Upton Park, against a side who aren't invincible and it's a game we can go and win. We just have to learn to do the basics right at the back (Mr Bamba) and keep our concentration better. I think our fundamental problem is not moving the ball from back to front quick enough and the slow sideways passing normally ends as hit and hope in to the channels or a poor ball in to the box. Possibly reverting back to the 4-3-3 system could be better for us right now and using our pacey players, as I think the diamond formation is floored, as our only wide threat comes from the full-backs and the middle of the park just gets congested. I would prefer a straight 4-4-2, but I don't see that being addressed until January, when we get one or two wide men in. Suggesting that calling back Howard and Waghorn in to the starting XI is wrong, as is removing Sven. If we are 13th after Christmas and still turning out sloppy performances, then I think yes, it will be time for Sven and Derick to move on. They came here for 18 months to try and get us out of the league and have had more than adequete funding. By that stage we should have had progress and if it doesn't come, then time to go. My Team for West Ham: Schmeichal Peltier Bamba St Ledger Konchesky King Wellens Fernandes Dyer Nugent Schlupp Subs: Pantsil, Abe, Tunchev, Beckford, Howard. (Lets take a risk, go without a keeper on the bench. I'm sure one of the outfield players could do as well as Weale anyway!)
The Doctor Posted 23 October 2011 Posted 23 October 2011 But obviously Pearson spent at least a tenner on players , where Sven has wasted millions on players " that were mostly surplus to requiments" at theyre previous clubs , Really - because this summer's signings have been, in the main, fairly cheap: Peltier - Almost certainly well under 1m Nugent - free Kasper - about 1m-1.5m I think was reported Danns - free Paintsil - free Ball - free Konchesky - 1.5m - 2m was bandied about Gelson - loan Johnson - loan Mills - rising to 5m, original fee was reported to be about 4m I believe Beckford - rising to 4m, original fee closer to 3m. St. Ledger - 1m Pearson meanwhile: Gallagher - 1m or there abouts Wellens - 1.5m I believe was reported Hobbs - 400k Brown - 200k Waghorn - loan N'Guessan - Undisclosed. Neilson - free McGivern - loan Weale - free Kermorgant - free Mills and Beckford aside, sven hasn't spent a great deal more than Pearson - that supposed genius with a shoe-string budget. and as we speak not as capable as the players they replaced ...........FACT ! Opinion, not fact. Lets speak the truth & not kid ourselves & talk Bollocks like Radio Leicester ..... So everyone who actually looks past the rubbish in the papers about how we've spent slightly more than the national deficit of Greece and considers the wider picture is talking bollocks?
Guest Col city fan Posted 23 October 2011 Posted 23 October 2011 Really - because this summer's signings have been, in the main, fairly cheap: Peltier - Almost certainly well under 1m Nugent - free Kasper - about 1m-1.5m I think was reported Danns - free Paintsil - free Ball - free Konchesky - 1.5m - 2m was bandied about Gelson - loan Johnson - loan Mills - rising to 5m, original fee was reported to be about 4m I believe Beckford - rising to 4m, original fee closer to 3m. St. Ledger - 1m Pearson meanwhile: Gallagher - 1m or there abouts Wellens - 1.5m I believe was reported Hobbs - 400k Brown - 200k Waghorn - loan N'Guessan - Undisclosed. Neilson - free McGivern - loan Weale - free Kermorgant - free Mills and Beckford aside, sven hasn't spent a great deal more than Pearson - that supposed genius with a shoe-string budget. Opinion, not fact. So everyone who actually looks past the rubbish in the papers about how we've spent slightly more than the national deficit of Greece and considers the wider picture is talking bollocks? What bollox is this! How can you put 'Mills and Beckford aside'? Thats 7/8 million quid!! Hahaha Fookin hell! This forum gets funnier by the day
davieG Posted 23 October 2011 Posted 23 October 2011 What bollox is this! How can you put 'Mills and Beckford aside'? Thats 7/8 million quid!! Hahaha Fookin hell! This forum gets funnier by the day Neither were on the pitch in the 2nd half (some would say that about the 1st half) So hardly the most expensive side in the league on the day.
The Doctor Posted 23 October 2011 Posted 23 October 2011 What bollox is this! How can you put 'Mills and Beckford aside'? Thats 7/8 million quid!! Hahaha Fookin hell! This forum gets funnier by the day because if we leave those two out of the equation for a second then we see that the total fees spent this summer and by pearson when we came back up are similar. With them it becomes significantly more but the point is: We have not spent massive amounts as is being claimed this summer, we paid big fees on TWO PLAYERS, not the WHOLE SQUAD.
Guest Col city fan Posted 23 October 2011 Posted 23 October 2011 because if we leave those two out of the equation for a second then we see that the total fees spent this summer and by pearson when we came back up are similar. With them it becomes significantly more but the point is: We have not spent massive amounts as is being claimed this summer, we paid big fees on TWO PLAYERS, not the WHOLE SQUAD. And... If Pearson had had 7/8 million quid he might have signed another four or five decent players! Ridiculous argument.. You're clutching at straws here mate We know you like Sven but you gotta put up a better argument than this! I'm pissin miself this end..
Fox92 Posted 23 October 2011 Posted 23 October 2011 From your post, I agree that Tunchev should come back, and Howard should be on the bench.
The Doctor Posted 23 October 2011 Posted 23 October 2011 And... If Pearson had had 7/8 million quid he might have signed another four or five decent players! Ridiculous argument.. You're clutching at straws here mate We know you like Sven but you gotta put up a better argument than this! I'm pissin miself this end.. I neither like nor dislike Sven - I was pleased with his appointment, likewise the start to the (calender) year we made, while I've been disappointed with the way we fell away with the play-offs in touching distance last season, and the mediocre start we've made this season - all I'm trying to do is get people to be rational and not over-react at every little set-back we have, because otherwise this place is going to be very depressing for the next 7 months and beyond. Now then, We have spent quite a bit this summer (although not as much as the media will insist), we've been inconsistent so far and not shown our full potential, but despite mediocre performances, promotion is still a very realistic target, we are within touching distance of 2nd and, in theory, when this team "clicks" we should be right up there. Our current form is good enough for play-offs at the least, even if the performances haven't - but performances were hardly spectacular under O'Neill, Adams & Pearson, they were, in the main, functional and about getting the job done - similar to the start of this season. Changing the manager is not the solution to everything - in fact the 07-08 season suggests it can exacerbate the problem. As I said in the post match thread - two defeats in close succession does not make us a crap team anymore than 2 wins in close succession makes us a top team. Plenty has been left desired but we have not been as bad as some may lead you to believe. Now can we please approach this in a considered and rational way, feel free to make arguments for Sven to be sacked, but at least give better reasoning than the "he's spent kazillions of pounds and we aren't winning every match in spectacular fashion" as have reared their ugly heads on here. Likewise those defending Sven, coherent, well structured arguments rather than some of the mindless drivel that has come out.
Guest Col city fan Posted 23 October 2011 Posted 23 October 2011 I neither like nor dislike Sven - I was pleased with his appointment, likewise the start to the (calender) year we made, while I've been disappointed with the way we fell away with the play-offs in touching distance last season, and the mediocre start we've made this season - all I'm trying to do is get people to be rational and not over-react at every little set-back we have, because otherwise this place is going to be very depressing for the next 7 months and beyond. Now then, We have spent quite a bit this summer (although not as much as the media will insist), we've been inconsistent so far and not shown our full potential, but despite mediocre performances, promotion is still a very realistic target, we are within touching distance of 2nd and, in theory, when this team "clicks" we should be right up there. Our current form is good enough for play-offs at the least, even if the performances haven't - but performances were hardly spectacular under O'Neill, Adams & Pearson, they were, in the main, functional and about getting the job done - similar to the start of this season. Changing the manager is not the solution to everything - in fact the 07-08 season suggests it can exacerbate the problem. As I said in the post match thread - two defeats in close succession does not make us a crap team anymore than 2 wins in close succession makes us a top team. Plenty has been left desired but we have not been as bad as some may lead you to believe. Now can we please approach this in a considered and rational way, feel free to make arguments for Sven to be sacked, but at least give better reasoning than the "he's spent kazillions of pounds and we aren't winning every match in spectacular fashion" as have reared their ugly heads on here. Likewise those defending Sven, coherent, well structured arguments rather than some of the mindless drivel that has come out. Sven HAS spent a lot of money, in relative terms for this level of football. Whether he spends it on ten players or two matters not, it's still much much more than Millwall, Peterborough, derby etc etc... And there is no sign of us clicking.. That's exactly the point of most of the people posting on here recently. So this is not knee jerk, negative or anything else.. It's just how it is Improvement or get him out..
The Doctor Posted 23 October 2011 Posted 23 October 2011 Sven HAS spent a lot of money, in relative terms for this level of football. Whether he spends it on ten players or two matters not, it's still much much more than Millwall, Peterborough, derby etc etc... And there is no sign of us clicking.. That's exactly the point of most of the people posting on here recently. So this is not knee jerk, negative or anything else.. It's just how it is Improvement or get him out.. 1) I don't think I ever said he hadn't, although given the way things are going in football that could no longer be the case in 3/4 years time. 2) Again, I haven't denied that, just that the fees spent on Beckford and Mills are giving people a false idea as to the way we've been spending in the main. 3) I disagree, there have been times when we've clicked - Forest and So'ton first halves, Brighton and Derby to name a few, we just haven't managed to perform to that level on a consistent basis, and for me that is the main issue. We've shown that the current set-up can work very well, we just need to show it more often.
davieG Posted 23 October 2011 Posted 23 October 2011 Sven HAS spent a lot of money, in relative terms for this level of football. Whether he spends it on ten players or two matters not, it's still much much more than Millwall, Peterborough, derby etc etc... And there is no sign of us clicking.. That's exactly the point of most of the people posting on here recently. So this is not knee jerk, negative or anything else.. It's just how it is Improvement or get him out.. This is what they were saying about Middlesboro' last season with their 'expensively' assembled team it can take a season to get them playing as a 'team' which Middlesboro' are now doing albeit rather boringly based on what i've read and their home results. There are signs of us clicking but not consistently and rarely for a whole game.
Guest Col city fan Posted 23 October 2011 Posted 23 October 2011 1) I don't think I ever said he hadn't, although given the way things are going in football that could no longer be the case in 3/4 years time. 2) Again, I haven't denied that, just that the fees spent on Beckford and Mills are giving people a false idea as to the way we've been spending in the main. 3) I disagree, there have been times when we've clicked - Forest and So'ton first halves, Brighton and Derby to name a few, we just haven't managed to perform to that level on a consistent basis, and for me that is the main issue. We've shown that the current set-up can work very well, we just need to show it more often. I should have added the word 'consistently'... Silly me We'll have to agree to disagree Al.. Another loss at West Ham and we are dropping off too much. You know it like we all do
flowwolf Posted 23 October 2011 Posted 23 October 2011 When the question comes up about how much Sven has paid for players no one has mentioned how much it is costing the club in terms of wages for all these new players. The ones who came here on a free certainly are not free in terms of wages. I have no way of telling but I bet the wages paid at this club outstrip nearly all but West ham in this league. They are certainly on more money than Hobbs or Fryat were and so far are playing no better than them.
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