UK elections - are they irrelevant?

[Guest MattP]

Or maybe because at the time, Gold prices were expected to go down faster than Drogba on a ski-slope. I'm not keen on Brown by any means, but the whole gold thing is pathetic from the nay-sayers - it was widely regarded as a clever move at the time.

Al that's complete bollocks and you know it!

[ithuriel]

We have incompetents running the country who ignore the public and have handed powers to the european parlaiment.

They are irrelevant to the working class but then again the working class is irrelevant to them.

Gordon Brown and Tony Blair, i voted for Blair first time round but they truly were the biggest pair of undemocratic ***** taking the country to war on a whim, doing what ever they wanted without reference to the public urinating all over the BBC.

Doubt i will ever vote for Labour ever again while i have breath and Cameron and Tossbourne are making me feel the same way about the Conservatives.

[Free Fox?]

.....Tossbourne....I will have to remember that!

You seem to be where I was 3-4 years ago. Angry that the working class are not only ignored, but always get trodden on by those who we elect to represent us.

If anyone is not comfortable with ukip, that's cool. It takes a bit of gumption to look at the facts and make the move. It took me a few years to do so

There are other options. Look at those who get into politics, not to make a career out of it. Such as the Greens or Independents, Career politicians in the big 3 are the cancer of the country. In it for themselves, not the people. I could never support the Greens.....very different ideology, but I have respect for those that stand for them. I have no respect for the big 3. The more that people vote alternative options, the more the main 3 will realise that they will have to change, and actually start listening to the public. If you truly want your vote to make a difference, than vote anything but the big 3!

[Guest MattP]

.....Tossbourne....I will have to remember that!

You seem to be where I was 3-4 years ago. Angry that the working class are not only ignored, but always get trodden on by those who we elect to represent us.

If anyone is not comfortable with ukip, that's cool. It takes a bit of gumption to look at the facts and make the move. It took me a few years to do so

There are other options. Look at those who get into politics, not to make a career out of it. Such as the Greens or Independents, Career politicians in the big 3 are the cancer of the country. In it for themselves, not the people. I could never support the Greens.....very different ideology, but I have respect for those that stand for them. I have no respect for the big 3. The more that people vote alternative options, the more the main 3 will realise that they will have to change, and actually start listening to the public. If you truly want your vote to make a difference, than vote anything but the big 3!

Caroline Lucas

[Captain...]

A quick question Free Fox? (I like the question mark, are you free or are you not)

Did you vote yes on AV?

I thought that UKIP would have been backing it, but don't really remember there being much about their involvement.

Back to the matter in hand, I do like Farage he often speaks well on QT, but I disagree with UKIP. I don't always agree with Brussels, but I would welcome greater EU influence over the UK, partly because I am sick of politicians in the UK, especially party politics, if one says it is black the other will swear it is white, every time the government changes hands projects are stopped without being completed schemes are cancelled and good work is undone. Not to mention the sabotage that happens by the out going Government.

I would really welcome the EU to take over our economy and use their economic experts, because at the moment it is being run by someone who knows fvck all about the economy and is being used as an electioneering tool by both sides. I would also like Europe to get involved when it sees the government doing something against the will of the people, such as the war in Iraq, tuition fees, privatising the police force. I also see it as a resource where we can learn from other countries in europe on their successes and failures, specifically towards energy, whether it is France's nuclear power stations, Denmark's bio energy and waste energy plants or Spanish wind and thermic energy projects.

I fully believe a United Europe is the way forward and that a form of policing our Governments is necessary, a steady and stable European government could ensure that we progress forwards together rather than fighting against each other and actually become the leading force in world politics, as well as leading the way to true globalisation and understanding.

I appreciate the current EU is not necessarily doing all of these things but it is a start, and it has been a success, and I believe once we get through this mess it will continue to be so.

[Guest MattP]

UKIP want full PR, supporting AV wouldn't really have been too beneficial for them and they certianly wouldn't want to side with the Liv Dems given what the Liberals would have got us into had we followed their opinions on Europe over the last 15 years.

I agree with you the EU could have been a success, problem is it wasd never going to be as soon as you invited in countries like Greece, Spain etc that have completely different economies and cultures to Northern Europe. It's finished it's in present form now and considering the power it wants to have I can only see that as a good thing.

Which "ecomonic experts" in the EU are you talking about? All I see is a trial of complete disaster.

[Guest MattP]

I fully believe a United Europe is the way forward and that a form of policing our Governments is necessary, a steady and stable European government could ensure that we progress forwards together rather than fighting against each other and actually become the leading force in world politics, as well as leading the way to true globalisation and understanding

That sounds like someone from the 1930's.....

[Captain...]

That sounds like someone from the 1930's.....

I've gone so far to the left I've popped up on the far right again haven't I

I truly believe that all of the current big problems in the world are global problems, and we need to find a global solution, the only way to do that is through global co-operation, we all need to look at reducing our drain on limited resources, and we all need to work together to find solutions to the imminent energy problem, and over-population, not to mention exploitation of cheap labour and the destructive nature of greed.

As for the European Economic Experts, there must be some, but they don't seem to be running the economies just commentating on it. One of the big problems in the UK was the de-regulation of the banks, this is when Europe or someone with a bit of knowledge should have stepped in and said, hang on, that could have some serious impact on the global economy, and this is what they are trying to do now, set-up a greater regulatory body that will stop countries running up huge debts and deficits.

[Guest MattP]

I truly believe that all of the current big problems in the world are global problems, and we need to find a global solution, the only way to do that is through global co-operation, we all need to look at reducing our drain on limited resources, and we all need to work together to find solutions to the imminent energy problem, and over-population, not to mention exploitation of cheap labour and the destructive nature of greed.

As for the European Economic Experts, there must be some, but they don't seem to be running the economies just commentating on it. One of the big problems in the UK was the de-regulation of the banks, this is when Europe or someone with a bit of knowledge should have stepped in and said, hang on, that could have some serious impact on the global economy, and this is what they are trying to do now, set-up a greater regulatory body that will stop countries running up huge debts and deficits.

I thought it was worldwide but I generally couldn't see any of it when I went to Japan and Australia last year and the people seemed to hold an argument that it wasn't (though Japans debt levels say otherwise), they seemed to still be absolutely booming, I've also got business contacts in Canada who say they haven't seen anything of a global recession.

Greed is human nature and will never leave and the major economic powerhouses of the next 100 years appear to be countries that can only do it because of the way they can produce cheap Labour so I think we have our work cut out.

My main problem with the EU doesn't really revolve around economics anyway, I always thought the Euro was doomed but it's the significent loss of being allowed to make your own laws and the completely undemocratic way the whole place is run, how dare they go into European countries and replace their elected representatives with people they best see fit consider they are responsbile for bringing half of Euopre to chaos?

We all know we'll leave it eventually and that day can't quick enough for me, just glad we arent as deep into it as what others are or I dread to think the mess we could be in.

[Captain...]

I thought it was worldwide but I generally couldn't see any of it when I went to Japan and Australia last year and the people seemed to hold an argument that it wasn't (though Japans debt levels say otherwise), they seemed to still be absolutely booming, I've also got business contacts in Canada who say they haven't seen anything of a global recession.

Greed is human nature and will never leave and the major economic powerhouses of the next 100 years appear to be countries that can only do it because of the way they can produce cheap Labour so I think we have our work cut out.

My main problem with the EU doesn't really revolve around economics anyway, I always thought the Euro was doomed but it's the significent loss of being allowed to make your own laws and the completely undemocratic way the whole place is run, how dare they go into European countries and replace their elected representatives with people they best see fit consider they are responsbile for bringing half of Euopre to chaos?

We all know we'll leave it eventually and that day can't quick enough for me, just glad we arent as deep into it as what others are or I dread to think the mess we could be in.

We are hardly living under a democracy, we effectively get a choice of 2 very similar parties, people are put in to safe seats to get them into the cabinet regardless of where they live, we get no say on who does what role in the cabinet, and we get ignored/kettled/killed every time we try and protest.

Democracy is an illusion in this country, so I have no problems with the EU doing something undemocratic for the right reason, the whole sham of the CONDEM coalition just exposes it for what it is, nobody voted for this, and neither side's policies got a majority so they are not the will of the people, the fact that are managing to dilute them all to such an extent that nobody is happy just shows this mockery for what it really is, I wish it was just a miserable little compromise, in fact it is an unmitigated, undemocratic disaster.

Edit: Oh and even though not every country is having a recession, which I think would be impossible, it doesn't mean it is not a global problem, the knock on effect of this recession will be seen far and wide, and even if some countries profit from it now, they will probably be the first to go under when we recover.

Edit 2: Oh and of course greed will always exist but we should be trying to control it and not facilitate it.

[Guest MattP]

Whatever you think of our democracy it's far better than anything the EU can provide, I'm not mad on the coalition but at least we have the party most people wanted into Government actually as the main players in running it. I'd prefer an end to coalitions anyway and being forced to run on a Minority if so be it as what's even more wrong is the Lib Dems can hold so much power over who goes into govermment despite having so few people actually voting for them.

so I have no problems with the EU doing something undemocratic for the right reason

Considering all we have been through, all we have done and all we have fought for, I find that comment absolutely frightening.

You really think people who have probably never been here, never lived here, never worked here, who very few here know who they are or what they do, should have the power to come into our country, remove people from positions of power who we have elected and put in who they want for their own needs that probably don't hold the British peoples best interests at heart? Add to that the same people whose project has brought countries to its knees and create youth unemployment of upto 50% in some of them?

This just complete and utter lunacy. I honestly don't know where to start.

[Captain...]

Whatever you think of our democracy it's far better than anything the EU can provide, I'm not mad on the coalition but at least we have the party most people wanted into Government actually as the main players in running it. I'd prefer an end to coalitions anyway and being forced to run on a Minority if so be it as what's even more wrong is the Lib Dems can hold so much power over who goes into govermment despite having so few people actually voting for them.

Considering all we have been through, all we have done and all we have fought for, I find that comment absolutely frightening.

You really think people who have probably never been here, never lived here, never worked here, who very few here know who they are or what they do, should have the power to come into our country, remove people from positions of power who we have elected and put in who they want for their own needs that probably don't hold the British peoples best interests at heart? Add to that the same people whose project has brought countries to its knees and create youth unemployment of upto 50% in some of them?

This just complete and utter lunacy. I honestly don't know where to start.

you are obviously referring to a specific example, but I don't know the details, but judging by the way the economy has been run over the last few years, I would welcome someone coming in, who knew what they were doing and taking over our economy, if they were going to do a better job of it, and lets face it that wouldn't be difficult. George Osbourne was not democratically elected to ruin our economy, he was elected to represent his constituency.

I agree with you on the coalition, I would rather the Tories ran as a minority Government, and no we don't have the party most people wanted, most people didn't want the Tories, that is why they didn't get a majority in terms of seats and number of votes. More people didn't want the Tories than wanted them, but more people wanted the Tories than any other party so they have their mandate to rule.

[ADK]

My faith in democracy went down a little bit more when AV was rejected. Our current system is terrible.

[Guest MattP]

you are obviously referring to a specific example, but I don't know the details, but judging by the way the economy has been run over the last few years, I would welcome someone coming in, who knew what they were doing and taking over our economy, if they were going to do a better job of it, and lets face it that wouldn't be difficult. George Osbourne was not democratically elected to ruin our economy, he was elected to represent his constituency.

I agree with you on the coalition, I would rather the Tories ran as a minority Government, and no we don't have the party most people wanted, most people didn't want the Tories, that is why they didn't get a majority in terms of seats and number of votes. More people didn't want the Tories than wanted them, but more people wanted the Tories than any other party so they have their mandate to rule.

Of course but no government has ever had a complete mandate from it's people, even Blair and Thatcher at the height of their landslide victories didn't achieve 50% of the people voting for them, we can't go down that road or we would never have a governent to run the country. I'm not completely happy with FPTP but it appears to be the best form of democracy, I like PR but again we'll just end up with coalition after coalition and it gives the smaller parties too much power. The idea of the BNP being able to get a couple of policies implemented to be able to get someone into government is more than a little scary.

Despite the Job you think the Tories are doing a I really don't see how anyone can hold anyone in the EU up as doing a better one? We are not having the best of times but as far as I'm aware we haven't needed a billion dollar bailout or had our unemployment levels hitting 20% yet.

My faith in democracy went down a little bit more when AV was rejected. Our current system is terrible.

Your faith in Democracy went down when AV was rejected in a Democratic referendum?

[Captain...]

Of course but no government has ever had a complete mandate from it's people, even Blair and Thatcher at the height of their landslide victories didn't achieve 50% of the people voting for them, we can't go down that road or we would never have a governent to run the country. I'm not completely happy with FPTP but it appears to be the best form of democracy, I like PR but again we'll just end up with coalition after coalition and it gives the smaller parties too much power. The idea of the BNP being able to get a couple of policies implemented to be able to get someone into government is more than a little scary.

Despite the Job you think the Tories are doing a I really don't see how anyone can hold anyone in the EU up as doing a better one? We are not having the best of times but as far as I'm aware we haven't needed a billion dollar bailout or had our unemployment levels hitting 20% yet.

So we should wait until that does happen before getting someone else to run the economy?

Your faith in Democracy went down when AV was rejected in a Democratic referendum?

It was about as democratic as the elections, politicians should have kept out of it, it should have been proposed considered and voted on, but it became about party politics again, the rags got involved blindly supported the Tories and the No vote (that had much greater funding than the yes vote campaign) and it got blown out of the water.

[Guest MattP]

So we should wait until that does happen before getting someone else to run the economy?

It was about as democratic as the elections, politicians should have kept out of it, it should have been proposed considered and voted on, but it became about party politics again, the rags got involved blindly supported the Tories and the No vote (that had much greater funding than the yes vote campaign) and it got blown out of the water.

There is no evidence to suggest that will happen, if it even comes close to it we will have democratically removed the Tories before it does.

Get over AV, it's dreadful, it's used in the World by no one except a few countries who have little relevence to anything, it was democractic referendum, the people clearly didnt want it, end of story. The polls before the politicians got involved still showed a similar level of support for the rentention of FPTP.

It said a lot about the Liberal Democrats and what they know about real people that they seriously thought people would even come close to voting it in.

[Captain...]

There is no evidence to suggest that will happen, if it even comes close to it we will have democratically removed the Tories before it does.

Get over AV, it's dreadful, it's used in the World by no one except a few countries who have little relevence to anything, it was democractic referendum, the people clearly didnt want it, end of story. The polls before the politicians got involved still showed a similar level of support for the rentention of FPTP.

It said a lot about the Liberal Democrats and what they know about real people that they seriously thought people would even come close to voting it in.

Yes a few countries with no relevance to anything, oh and the London Mayoral elections.

Yes it says that the Lib Dems over estimated the intelligence of the British public and didn't dumb down everything to the lowest common denominator to win votes. Idiots.

[Guest MattP]

Yes a few countries with no relevance to anything, oh and the London Mayoral elections.

Yes it says that the Lib Dems over estimated the intelligence of the British public and didn't dumb down everything to the lowest common denominator to win votes. Idiots.

nstant runoff voting is used to elect members of the Australian House of Representatives,^[1] the President of India, members of legislative councils in India, the President of Ireland,^[2] the National Parliament of Papua New Guinea, and the House of Representatives of Fiji.

That's it.

The last line again shows why the Lib Dems will never be elected, the attitude of "everything we think is right and if you don't agree you obviously aren't as educated as us". Shame as they do actually have some extremely good Social Policies. Good luck in the fight with UKIP for 3rd place next time.

[Captain...]

That's it.

The last line again shows why the Lib Dems will never be elected, the attitude of "everything we think is right and if you don't agree you obviously aren't as educated as us". Shame as they do actually have some extremely good Social Policies. Good luck in the fight with UKIP for 3rd place next time.

Ha ha, the liberals won't even get their deposits back by the time they are finished suckling at Cameron's teat, they need to break up the coalition asap to stand a chance and win back any respect, but the damage was done over tuition fees. The Lords Reform issue, one I don't support them on, could actually be good for them, if they get out now and rebel against Cameron then things could get interesting but I fear to the detriment of the stability of this country and the economy.

[Guest MattP]

Ha ha, the liberals won't even get their deposits back by the time they are finished suckling at Cameron's teat, they need to break up the coalition asap to stand a chance and win back any respect, but the damage was done over tuition fees. The Lords Reform issue, one I don't support them on, could actually be good for them, if they get out now and rebel against Cameron then things could get interesting but I fear to the detriment of the stability of this country and the economy.

Think it will break off a year before, I think the damage might be done for both, the Tories have certainly not governed like a Conservative party I expect and at this rate my vote heads off to UKIP and I'm sure that's the same of many traditional voters.

Can see another hung parliament but a Labour maj wouldn't be a great surprise, be very interesting to see a Labour administration have to govern with a huge deficit rather than a stable economy.

[Free Fox?]

Hey Captain Shrapnel,

To answer your AV question...ukip supported AV officially, though the party was split on the issue. I personally did not vote yes. I spoiled my ballot paper scribbling PR all over it Though I regret that decision now. I think if we had got a close result, it would have shown that the there was a will for the voting system to be reformed. Though I think your point about the referendum being hijacked is valid. The big 2 parties currently have a strangle hold. They would not have wanted that kind of power being rescinded. We currently have a situation in which 20% of the country elect the government. The other 80% are safe seats for Labour/Cons.

As for a fully integrated EU, you need to look at their record first. They don't have any problem in letting the people suffer to further their own agenda. The theory of a united Europe is not a bad one. And one I will be open too, though I have to say, this EU is bar far the scariest entity I have come across. They have no shame at all. If you have any sense of personal freedoms and liberty, you will be fighting them. I already talked about the people of Greece. You can have a look online to see the despair there. You won't get much of it in the national media .If that isn't enough alone, then how about the EAW?(European Arrest Warrant). This means they have the power to arrest, and detain people, for as long as they want, without charge or trial. This piece of legislation has taken us back 500 years. And the ACTA proposals?The European commission want the power to police the internet. To stop the free sharing of information between people.

And you state that once we get through this mess, the EU will continue to be a success? Sorry to say, but they are sustaining the mess, if not causing it. The bailouts are illegal. The forced austerity measures are draconian. The euro was badly designed, and I believe to be on purpose. We are now in a crisis, and they are using it to secure more power. I understand you are fed up with our national lot in parliament using the economy as an election tool, but the EU are using it for a far worse purpose. Taking power away from the people to further their own agenda is disgraceful.

You talk about globalism. And that is spot on. The world should be working together, but the current EU trading block (EEA) is isolationist in its very design. It is very insular. More prosperous and advantageous trade agreements with countries across the world cannot be pursued. Trade within the EU has to come first. We should be global in our outlook. We should have our seat on the WTO. We should be trading with the world. And don't lose sight that the EU is throwing its weight around the world like the USA. The EU caused the Somalian pirates. Just google it. And that is just one country,

And you asked probably the biggest question to ever face the world as a whole. Over population. This is by far the biggest problem the world faces. And every political party will run away from it as far as possible. The only answer is population control. It is the only answer. Nothing else will work. But who will support that? How will it be policed? And it is highly immoral, and something I won't support. Ever. It is the toughest subject you could ever approach, because it is a very scary problem, and a very real problem. With no other answers.

Hello Mattp (interesting avatar)

Caroline Lucas...yes. She got a career out of politics, Though that wasn't my point. When she joined the Green party nobody would have guessed she would ever have been a MP. She didn't join for a career in politics, she joined to follow her beliefs.

You stated we don't have unemployment at 20% yet. That is the official figures. Though If I remember correctly, we have 1 in 3 people of working age, not in work, That figure should send shockwaves through the establishment. Get that addressed and these cuts would not be needed

[ADK]

The reason i disliked the AV vote was how obvious it was that the majority of people voting no, did so because they had no understanding of what the proposed new system was.

I face the prospect of a next election where only 2 parties stand a realistic chance of winning and i do not want to vote for either. Therefore to me the system does not work.

[Free Fox?]

The reason i disliked the AV vote was how obvious it was that the majority of people voting no, did so because they had no understanding of what the proposed new system was.

I face the prospect of a next election where only 2 parties stand a realistic chance of winning and i do not want to vote for either. Therefore to me the system does not work.

Correct. The system is deeply flawed. Everybody should feel that their vote will count. It causes people to vote tactically as well. Meaning some parties receive negative votes, just to stop another party. This isn't democracy. Most countries across the world now adopt a PR system of voting, and they get along fine. The main argument to keep FPTP is to stop coalition governments. And we currently have one, and look very likely to have another after the next GE. Not much of an argument

[Webbo]

Correct. The system is deeply flawed. Everybody should feel that their vote will count. It causes people to vote tactically as well. Meaning some parties receive negative votes, just to stop another party. This isn't democracy. Most countries across the world now adopt a PR system of voting, and they get along fine. The main argument to keep FPTP is to stop coalition governments. And we currently have one, and look very likely to have another after the next GE. Not much of an argument

What do you think about Beckford?

[Free Fox?]

What do you think about Beckford?

Not really relevant to the topic....but I will answer anyhow

I think he has the potential to be a premiership player. Though his attitude lets him down. I was at Peterbro' away last season in which he just stopped playing. Stood on the centre circle with his hands on his hips. Disgraceful. I hope Waggy can get into some form, and Beckford can be on the bench