UK elections - are they irrelevant?

[Webbo]

Not really relevant to the topic....but I will answer anyhow

I think he has the potential to be a premiership player. Though his attitude lets him down. I was at Peterbro' away last season in which he just stopped playing. Stood on the centre circle with his hands on his hips. Disgraceful. I hope Waggy can get into some form, and Beckford can be on the bench

Well researched.

[Free Fox?]

Well researched.

researched? No mate. Not at all.

[Guest MattP]

Hello Mattp (interesting avatar)

Caroline Lucas...yes. She got a career out of politics, Though that wasn't my point. When she joined the Green party nobody would have guessed she would ever have been a MP. She didn't join for a career in politics, she joined to follow her beliefs.

You stated we don't have unemployment at 20% yet. That is the official figures. Though If I remember correctly, we have 1 in 3 people of working age, not in work, That figure should send shockwaves through the establishment. Get that addressed and these cuts would not be needed

Yeah I like the avatar, met him a few times, lovely fella and fantastic speaker in more ways than one.

Yeah I take the point on Lucas, don't like a lot of what she does now but I'm sure her original intentions were good.

[21st Century Fox]

Yeah I like the avatar, met him a few times, lovely fella and fantastic speaker in more ways than one.

Yeah I take the point on Lucas, don't like a lot of what she does now but I'm sure her original intentions were good.

From his mouth and arse, impressive.

[Guest MattP]

From his mouth and arse, impressive.

Very good, I'm sure you give him a fair shake everytime he decides to put his point across.

[Captain...]

Great response free fox, you are clearly well informed on this and make a good case, and perhaps disbanding the eu and starting again would be benficial, but I feel we have a lot already in place, and itmay be too great a step backwards.

Great response free fox, you are clearly well informed on this and make a good case, and perhaps disbanding the eu and starting again would be benficial, but I feel we have a lot already in place, and itmay be too great a step backwards.

[21st Century Fox]

Very good, I'm sure you give him a fair shake everytime he decides to put his point across.

Always open to the opinions of the privileged and entitled.

[The Doctor]

And Large Al....really? You must have been one of the many that believed the line "I have abolished boom and bust". Gordon Brown the saviour? More like Gordon Brown the clown. How could one man have stopped a natural cycle that has been in place in market forces since the dawn of time? It was widely regarded as a good move by those that believed a bust wasn't coming. But those who have a firmer grip on economics knew very well a bust was on the horizon. And when that happens, people need something to put their money in. Gold always does very well when markets crash.

Did I say he was the saviour? No - so shove your bullshit up your arse (it might make UKIP's bollocks slightly more sensible mind).

The gold reserves were sold, done with, by 2002 - 5 years before the downturn and around the time of the massive credit market boom in the early to mid 2000's.

It was a crap price to sell at - but hindsight's a fucking wonderful thing and if you want to attack something that was clearly ridiculous at the time - how about Thatcher privatising the water? Although, I guess you'd approve of making people pay to stay alive.

As for your claim earlier that UKIP are libertarian - fuck off. Libertarians are generally, well, socially liberal (if ridiculously in love with the free market) and not fundamentalist, homophobic cunts. UKIP are the authoritarian right that feel left behind by the tories considering for a single second about treating people like people rather than just cattle to be milked.

[Daggers]

Surely not yet another iteration of a moosense?

[Free Fox?]

Wow....have a bad night LargeAl?

You carry on believing what you want. If it makes your world more comfatable, then so be it. Thatcher privatising the water was no great thing at all. Clearly outside interests were at play. Taking advise from people who would benefit. Privatising anything which are a nessessaty to homes is very bad news. Look at the energy companies. A clear monopoly, holding people to ransom. Its a disgrace. Done by the Tories, and left alone by Labour. Could have at least been windfall taxed to serve as a warning of record profits off the backs of the people. No, instead Brown taxed pension pots. What a great advert for labour. Greedy energy comlanies left alone, but anybody that works hard, and puts a little aside, bang! lets tax 'em. Labour offer nothing for the private sector low income worker. And clearly the tories don't.

Authoritarian? Your talking out you arse. Labour are the ones who have the thought police. Don't think like us? We will demonise and castigate you. And we will use our friends in the media to do it.

[The Doctor]

Wow....have a bad night LargeAl?

You carry on believing what you want. If it makes your world more comfatable, then so be it. Thatcher privatising the water was no great thing at all. Clearly outside interests were at play. Taking advise from people who would benefit. Privatising anything which are a nessessaty to homes is very bad news. Look at the energy companies. A clear monopoly, holding people to ransom. Its a disgrace. Done by the Tories, and left alone by Labour. Could have at least been windfall taxed to serve as a warning of record profits off the backs of the people. No, instead Brown taxed pension pots. What a great advert for labour. Greedy energy comlanies left alone, but anybody that works hard, and puts a little aside, bang! lets tax 'em. Labour offer nothing for the private sector low income worker. And clearly the tories don't.

Authoritarian? Your talking out you arse. Labour are the ones who have the thought police. Don't think like us? We will demonise and castigate you. And we will use our friends in the media to do it.

I'll do that - I'll trust my calender, you trust your bias. I think my source is a bit more reliable though.

Gotta admit, I wasn't expecting that given UKIP are old-school tories i.e. cunts who lean further to the right than Heather Mills after McCartney knicked her fake leg.

Right - why mention Labour? You do realise I don't vote for them, what with me being left-wing. Still - UKIP are far from liberal:

Repeal the Human Rights Act to end abuses by convicted criminals and illegal immigrants.

Withhold all State benefits from immigrants for five years

Opposing gay marriage

Not bad for a quick search on google.

[Free Fox?]

I will level with you LargeAl, I am labelled as being on the left of the party. As is the Leicester branch as a whole. I am a former Lib Dem voter. And one for a long time. There is no hatred to others in me, well except the political elite who abuse the poor, to protect the rich. I mentioned earlier, it took a few years for me to make the move. It took me right out of my comfort zone. But the Lib Dems are part of the establishment. And I am glad I got out before they betrayed their grass roots and voters.

As for your google searcg points I will try to address them.

The Human Rights Act. You have to admit our judges have made a mochary of it. There a thousands of cases of abuse of the act to protect the guitly. Taxpayers should not have to pay £41K a year to house a foreign criminal. Before the act was sworn into parliament (1999 I think) we had protections under common law. Did we not think the human rights in this country were not enough? Did people not have the same freedoms and protection they recieve today? It worked. And the abuse of the system was alot less. The only real winners I can see from the HRA is the greedy legal profession.

Freezing state benefits from immigrants for 5 years? Ties in to a previuos post regarding having a sensible discussion on th impact of immigration. Once the country is back on its feet again, and immigration can be then be a benefit to both the country and the economy, we need to promote the right kind of immigration. We are currently in a situation in which foreign newspapers advertise how to apply for benefits in the UK. That is unnacceptable isn't it? We can't pay for the world. There aren't enough taxpayers . We should be actively encouraging positive immigration. In which GDP per capita doesn't fall, when GDP rises. If the economy is doing well, then I would like the standard of living to be going up for everyone. Not like last time when the gap between the rich and the poor grew alarmingly.

And oppsing gay marriage. I will admit doesn't sit well with me. Who are the state to say who can and cannot get married? Marriage based on sexual orientation should not be allowed, should be open to all. However, I am not christian. The ceremony of marriage is. The Church has always had an influence within the UK. Equally it does not sit well with me that the state can legislate against the practice of a religion. I don't like it at all. I will be honest, I am on the fence on the matter. I can understand both arguements, and don't like the outcome, no matter what happens.

There are a few things I am directly opposed to within ukip. But because I am in ukip, I don't have to follow the party line in all things. I can publicly oppose some policies, without fear of comeback

one last thing....got passed an idea today. But I am at work on my iphone, with weak signal. So can't really take a good look. A very radial tax plan has been proposed. Its on fairtax.org. If anyone has the time, please take a look. I would be interested to hear opions of those outside ukip. Thanks

[MooseBreath]

Surely not yet another iteration of a moosense?

Not likely. I'm nowhere near interested enough in politics to know all that shit. And he's talking about population control... Wtf is he proposing? Sounds ominous. Population growth as our biggest problem? Doubt it what with the population predicted to peak at less than nine billy. No, I have no interest in the ukip. It's like shopping at londis rather than Asda or Tesco, sure they might have a great deal on frozen breaded prawns at the moment, but that doesn't excuse the fact that their bread is out of date and the mince beef is more brown than shit and smells worse as well. Stick with the big guns, know what you're getting. The lib dem debacle has put me off alternative parties forever. Their headlines might sound attractive, but their execution would almost definitely be a complete disaster.

[SemperEadem]

Not a chance are they irrelevant! I feel anyone that thinks they are should really open their own eyes. If we get another Tory government it will continue to take Britain decades backwards with huge inequality at the heart.

[Rincewind]

Not a chance are they irrelevant! I feel anyone that thinks they are should really open their own eyes. If we get another Tory government it will continue to take Britain decades backwards with huge inequality at the heart.

Yes but iif a person is one of those that unequality does not touch then as a rule that person will not care a radiactive shite.

[SemperEadem]

Yes but iif a person is one of those that unequality does not touch then as a rule that person will not care a radiactive shite.

But I would hope/ like to think in a perhaps naive way that they would care about others and value society as a whole, something that Thatchers government destroyed.

[Guest MattP]

I'll do that - I'll trust my calender, you trust your bias. I think my source is a bit more reliable though.

Gotta admit, I wasn't expecting that given UKIP are old-school tories i.e. ***** who lean further to the right than Heather Mills after McCartney knicked her fake leg.

Right - why mention Labour? You do realise I don't vote for them, what with me being left-wing. Still - UKIP are far from liberal:

Irony

Just get more polite the left on here.....

[Free Fox?]

@Moosebreath,

I love your descriptive use of the language. Never heard of ukip being linked to frozen prawns before .

Just to clarify, I was talking about population at a global level. And I would never endorse poplutaion control. But you have to admit, the gravity of the problem is huge. Just the carbon problem alone. Whats the point on reducing the size of everones carbon footprint if billions more footprints are to be added? And look at food levels. We are approaching breaking point. Food prices could soar. And alot of other factors to consider. We already have widespread famine and poverty in the world. Billions will be added to it. But that happens in far away places. Won't ever effect us will it. Only talking as a person here, nothing to do with ukip.

The toires taking us backwards with unfairness at the heart? You bet. Aided by Labour. None represent the people. That is what I have been ranting about for the last few days

[The Doctor]

I will level with you LargeAl, I am labelled as being on the left of the party. As is the Leicester branch as a whole. I am a former Lib Dem voter. And one for a long time. There is no hatred to others in me, well except the political elite who abuse the poor, to protect the rich. I mentioned earlier, it took a few years for me to make the move. It took me right out of my comfort zone. But the Lib Dems are part of the establishment. And I am glad I got out before they betrayed their grass roots and voters.

As for your google searcg points I will try to address them.

The Human Rights Act. You have to admit our judges have made a mochary of it. There a thousands of cases of abuse of the act to protect the guitly. Taxpayers should not have to pay £41K a year to house a foreign criminal. Before the act was sworn into parliament (1999 I think) we had protections under common law. Did we not think the human rights in this country were not enough? Did people not have the same freedoms and protection they recieve today? It worked. And the abuse of the system was alot less. The only real winners I can see from the HRA is the greedy legal profession.

So a few people have taken advantage - doesn't mean we should get rid of what is a very good thing. By that logic we could say that if, say, the tories, were to do a tad of vote rigging to hold onto the Corby seat, democracy has been made a mockery and we'd be better off rid of it.

Ultimately, repealing the human rights act is a declaration that we disagree that people deserve rights. Regardless of what someone has done, they still have the right to certain things - clean water, shelter and food for instance.

Freezing state benefits from immigrants for 5 years? Ties in to a previuos post regarding having a sensible discussion on th impact of immigration. Once the country is back on its feet again, and immigration can be then be a benefit to both the country and the economy, we need to promote the right kind of immigration. We are currently in a situation in which foreign newspapers advertise how to apply for benefits in the UK. That is unnacceptable isn't it? We can't pay for the world. There aren't enough taxpayers . We should be actively encouraging positive immigration. In which GDP per capita doesn't fall, when GDP rises. If the economy is doing well, then I would like the standard of living to be going up for everyone. Not like last time when the gap between the rich and the poor grew alarmingly.

Right - but what about those already in the country when you freeze immigration? Just fuck 'em, should have thought about not being able to afford to live before they got low-paid jobs/got laid off ey?

This is one of the biggest lies the right-wing go on about - people on benefits are not stealing from the lower level workers because they are generally one and the same - people who are ripped off by businesses to the point that they can't afford on the pathetically low wages they're given to live around the factories/shops/schools that they work in to keep the country running. It's nothing more than an attempt to divide the potential opposition to what they want to do.

And oppsing gay marriage. I will admit doesn't sit well with me. Who are the state to say who can and cannot get married? Marriage based on sexual orientation should not be allowed, should be open to all. However, I am not christian. The ceremony of marriage is. The Church has always had an influence within the UK. Equally it does not sit well with me that the state can legislate against the practice of a religion. I don't like it at all. I will be honest, I am on the fence on the matter. I can understand both arguements, and don't like the outcome, no matter what happens.

Except of course - it's not. Marriage is a purely state thing - it's become linked with the Church of course, but that doesn't change the basic fact - Marriage is not something that belongs to the religious and they have no right to say who can or cannot get married. Add into that that the arguments made against are all crap and often out-right lies, and really, opposing gay marriage is the work of a bigot who's happy to use the church as a smokescreen for their own garbage.

[MooseBreath]

one last thing....got passed an idea today. But I am at work on my iphone, with weak signal. So can't really take a good look. A very radial tax plan has been proposed. Its on fairtax.org. If anyone has the time, please take a look. I would be interested to hear opions of those outside ukip. Thanks

Didn't look at it in any detail, but I gather the proposal is a consumption tax only system. Obviously we already have a consumption tax in VAT, which will be have to be increased to a much higher percentage to cover the losses elsewhere. I can see the logic in thinking it would be fair for people to pay tax based on how much they consume rather than how much they earn, but it goes against basic economic principles by incentivising people to not spend, which would quickly cause the economy to collapse in on itself.

[MooseBreath]

Also regards immigrants, instead of blocking them from receiving benefits for five years or whatever, why not give them benefits if required but prevent them from directly sending any money abroad? Money given to people on benefits who then spend it in the local economy is not money wasted or lost, it all helps towards economic growth. The only way the economy loses out is when money is saved or leaves the country, so if you want to make a move that will appeal to certain anti-immigration voters why not prevent immigrants from sending money home?

[ADK]

At the moment we pay benefits directly to foreigners.

[The Doctor]

At the moment we pay benefits directly to foreigners.

Who live in Britain, and what with food bills and what not, put the money back into the local economy - fucking disgraceful, how dare they do something that most British people do as well...

However if you mean benefits going to people who then store money away to take home after a while -

a) How is does that really differ to me saving up a load of money and going to Vegas for a couple of weeks?

b) How stupid are you to think people come to live in this country, sit around doing nothing for a couple of months and then can take that money back? They'll have a fair few bills to be paid, they can't just survive on those benefits and also be able to send a significant amount back home. So, they get jobs and, by god, they're providing a service, paying taxes and generally contributing to the economy - what is this treachery?

[Rincewind]

Not sure if this is relevant to this thread but I received a newsletter from the housing group I'm with and there was an article about a change in benefits.

It affects those in shared housing. The article is advising anyone getting letters from the job centres about housing benefits being stopped to go and see them because they shouldn't.

It's something to do with changing to something called Universal benefits being phased in in 2013.

Never heard about this before and was wondering if it would affect other things like tax or pension credits or disabilitiy rights.

[ADK]

Who live in Britain, and what with food bills and what not, put the money back into the local economy - ****ing disgraceful, how dare they do something that most British people do as well...

However if you mean benefits going to people who then store money away to take home after a while -

a) How is does that really differ to me saving up a load of money and going to Vegas for a couple of weeks?

b) How stupid are you to think people come to live in this country, sit around doing nothing for a couple of months and then can take that money back? They'll have a fair few bills to be paid, they can't just survive on those benefits and also be able to send a significant amount back home. So, they get jobs and, by god, they're providing a service, paying taxes and generally contributing to the economy - what is this treachery?

I was more thinking of cases where we pay money to people living abroad.