Lillehamring

Easy enough to mix up those legendary Charlie Chaplin and John Travolta celebrations

I'm sure teams will see leeds and southampton in much the same light.

Dude - the player is sent off - that's the point. If the ref get's a second yellow wrong it ruins the game. It is possible to have different review rules for different situations. A first yellow is not reviewable because on it's own it doesn't punish a team by reducing the amount of players - a second yellow does, thus it should be checked. And of course a second yellow causes a sending off more than the first does - one yellow will never be a sending off without a second; a second will always be a sending off. Nothing ruins a game more than a sending off, that's why they opted for VAR to check all red cards - why should a red for a second bookable offence be any different than a straight red for a hand ball?

I get your point - but it's always going to be the second that is the difference between having a player less or not. It doesn't matter if the first one is right or wrong, what matters is getting the second one right - that second card is, technically, what provokes the red card, not the first one.. Sure if the first one is a bad call it's harsh on the player, but if his second one is checked and seen to be a bad call, at least he isn't sent off for two bad calls. It's a question of balance - checking a second yellow is the compromise between a player being incorrectly sent off and not having to review every card - and it would still have to come down to a clear and obvious error. You have to accept the referee's decision on a first yellow, that's how it is and that's not the issue - the issue is when a ref makes a bad call that leads to a sending off. Or equally, the other side of the coin, how many times does a ref not give a second yellow, because he doesn't want to risk incorrectly sending off a player - a review gives him a safety net.

That's not really a very strong argument because we actually do it a LOT, it's just we're not always the best at finishing these moves off - that's really what the problem is - if it can be classed as a problem, certainly we could be better, we've wasted many such attacks where we have a big overload.

Just going on the fairly strong reports that we already tried to buy him in the summer and that he is enzo's top boy so more than likely we'll return for him in the summer.

Sure, but that's not good enough - he's a squad player, he's not a bad defender and he's not bad going forward, but he excels at neither. If he were doyle's age playing the way he does, there'd be reason for optimism, but he's nearly 26 - he's older than Faes! - is he really going to get to the level he seemed he might, especially as he doesn't really fit in enzo's system - i can't see it. Great pro, nice guy, but he's not the future.

Not denying that. I just feel that Justin's weaknesses are glossed over, whilst Doyle's are over-exaggerated. looking deeper..... according to whoscored - justin is dribbled past 0.6 times per game, doyle 0.8 - not a lot in it, and neither is particularly bad - I guess they both could be better but neither are that bad. FWIW, justin is dispossessed 0.1 per game, doyle 0.3 - neither of which is that high, and possibly the difference a result of doyle being a lot more adventurous on the ball than justin (he attempts four times as many dribbles per game as justin - only five players attempt more); justin also has a slightly higher number of unsuccessful touches per game (not by much and neither are bad). Personally, i don't think either of them are at a standard that we need them to be, but i'd rather we stuck with doyle, seeing as he's 5 years younger than justin.

Yes, had i been ending the sentence, but i wasn't ending the sentence, i was leaving it open to express how lost for words i am... ...mucker.

No not at all - because the vast majority of yellows are single, and a first yellow doesn't really affect the game, certainly not in the way a player being sent off does - effectively, the majority of yellow cards the ref can get away with a bad call. But for a second yellow, it is far more serious, getting it wrong can totally change a game. VAR is supposed to review all red card decisions, but for some reason a red following a second yellow is not considered reviewable.

There is a tendency on here (not saying from you, just generally) to completely overlook the fact that JJ gets done for pace fairly regularly - granted he's quicker than doyle but either he's not as quick as he looks or something to do with his reading of the game, but i've seen several wingers get past him pretty easily this year.

I think this is a bit harsh - JJ had very little to do at left back and only really picked up his attacking game when he moved to the right. Whereas Doyle came on just as watford got the goal and came out all guns blazing. It's hardly a fair comparison

The irrational hatred is par for the course on this forum, but the logic beggars belief...

Down and Out in Paris and London - George Orwell It's interesting but lacking any charm.

Could be me though

He's 17, he's getting more attention than the world champion/world #1 - it's not unreasonable that he's going to feel some pressure.

It was good, it's what we do - but not going to win goal of the season. watford's defense melted and we sliced through it. Not quite barca, but still a lovely quick move.

Don't think we were as bad as people are making out. Only really in the final third that we came up short, and even then there were a few things that were inches away from coming off. Up until the winks error, watford were treading water, whilst we were at our best, playing some lovely stuff - culminating in a superb goal; poor timing as well with their subs having just come on. I see McAteer is the latest to receive the irrational hatred on here - none of our front players were great today, i didn't think McAteer was any worse than anyone else (especially playing out of position) and certainly put in a shift defensively. Silly error made that tighter than it needed to be, but good to see us running down the clock, i don't think watford had a sniff in the time added on.

I get the feeling it's more down to having praet provide some solidity in the early stages - i rate yunus but he's a featherweight.

And then he ruined it by going all 'jumpers for goalposts' on us....

If they can be idle in other sports with sinbins, not to mention sports like american football, i'm sure they can cope with ten minutes inactivity here.

Well, gosh, that's just about the most sensible thing in this entire thread! Bravo, Miss/Mrs

A second yellow really should be checked by VAR anyway, seeing as VAR is supposed to check red cards - this would prevent someone getting sent off for an undeserved 2nd yellow, but give refs more confidence to issue them in the first place.

Sure - but it doesn't happen because the refs don't even enforce the rules they currently have - how many times have we seen a ref bottle a second yellow for example...

Well, no, but the idea would be to act as a deterrent - no one wants to see players sinbinned, they just want to see fewer tactical fouls and less dissent.