Returning a 2nd hand car to a dealer for money back

[CarbonVirtine]

I bought a 2009 diesel car with 50k on the clock from a decent 2nd dealer nearly 2 months ago, I've done around 1,000 mile in it. It broke down last week with DPF problems, I had to be recovered back home. It's still under warranty and I've contacted the warranty company and they're aware of the situation. Garage estimate is upwards of £500 repairs - new pressure sensor plus new (or regenerated) DPF. The warranty limit is £300 - and that's IF the warranty company plays ball. 

 

Thing is, I'm thinking of taking it back to the dealers as 'not fit for purpose' under the law. Has anyone any actual experience of doing this?  

[RoboFox]

If you're past the first 30 days (standard consumer rights) but a problem has arisen that you think would have been there at the time of purchase, you're entitled to ask for a repair or replacement free of charge. In most cases this will be a repair, as whoever sold the car to you will usually be able to prove that the cost of replacing it would be disproportionate. 

 

During the first six months after purchase, it's the responsibility of the seller to prove the fault wasn't there, not for you to prove that it was. 

 

If the attempt at a repair or replacement is unsuccessful, you're entitled to a refund, but the car dealer can make a deduction from the refund after the first 30 days for 'fair use'.

 

[Babylon]

16 minutes ago, CarbonVirtine said:

I bought a 2009 diesel car with 50k on the clock from a decent 2nd dealer nearly 2 months ago, I've done around 1,000 mile in it. It broke down last week with DPF problems, I had to be recovered back home. It's still under warranty and I've contacted the warranty company and they're aware of the situation. Garage estimate is upwards of £500 repairs - new pressure sensor plus new (or regenerated) DPF. The warranty limit is £300 - and that's IF the warranty company plays ball. 

 

Thing is, I'm thinking of taking it back to the dealers as 'not fit for purpose' under the law. Has anyone any actual experience of doing this?  

From Which...

 

"If you're past the first 30 days but a problem has arisen that you think would have been there at the time of purchase, you're entitled to ask for a repair or replacement free of charge. 

In most cases this will be a repair, as whoever sold the car to you will usually be able to prove that the cost of replacing it would be disproportionate. 

During the first six months after purchase, it's the responsibility of the seller to prove the fault wasn't there, not for you to prove that it was. 

But after the first six months, the onus will be on you to prove that the fault was present from the day you bought the car. 

If the attempt at a repair or replacement is unsuccessful, you're entitled to a refund.

But the car dealer can make a deduction from the refund after the first 30 days for 'fair use'."

 

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights

 

Basically they have to prove the fault wasn't there when purchased, you don't have to prove it was. If they can't prove it, then they will have to repair or accept a return. Is this something that they would have checked to pass an MOT or to service the car? If it is, then it might be a case of them showing it passed the MOT or that there was no fault during the service, is proof enough that it wasn't there. Who knows, sounds like dodgy ground.

[CarbonVirtine]

1 minute ago, RoboFox said:

During the first six months after purchase, it's the responsibility of the seller to prove the fault wasn't there, not for you to prove that it was. 

That's the bit of the law that I'm relying upon. And they can't as I spoke to them this morning (before the garage diagnosed the exact fault) and they have no diags, DPF or otherwise from when they obtained the car.

 

But having the law on ones side (or even arguably on ones side) and actually putting into action are two separate matters! I'm waiting to see what the warranty company say before speaking to the dealers - if the dealers pick up the tab for the repair then I'll be happy. They might prefer that to getting into a discussion about it. I can but hope!

[CarbonVirtine]

5 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Is this something that they would have checked to pass an MOT or to service the car? If it is, then it might be a case of them showing it passed the MOT or that there was no fault during the service, is proof enough that it wasn't there. Who knows, sounds like dodgy ground.

It's certainly a grey area.

 

The exact fault (and the diags on the car revealed several, not just the DPF, but they're minor in comparison) would not have been an MOT issue. IF the DPF had been removed entirely then, yes, MOT fail BUT otherwise it's just emission levels that would have been checked I guess - and they're fine. The car was serviced (not by the dealers) around 5000 mile ago/11 months and is not due until next month. The problems would have been found at service I suspect.

 

The guy at the garage who did the fault diagnosis is of the opinion that the problems are not due to simple wear and tear, and I'm relying on his opinion. My take, as a non-mechanic, is both warranty company AND dealer will say it's my problem, caveat emptor and all that, because the F stands for 'filter' and one expects those to need changing periodically.

[CarbonVirtine]

Well fek me! I have literally (and I mean that in a literal sense  ) just put down the phone to the warranty company... and they have agreed to pick up the entire cost of the repair AND the dealers are offering me a loan car whilst my car is repaired!

 

I really was not expecting that. I really thought I was going to be told to do one!

 

I have to take it to a different garage but that's not a problem. Apparently, the garage I took it too (my local, and one agreed in advanced with the warranty company) quoted £1200 for the repairs and the warranty company feel that's overboard.

[Babylon]

14 minutes ago, CarbonVirtine said:

Well fek me! I have literally (and I mean that in a literal sense  ) just put down the phone to the warranty company... and they have agreed to pick up the entire cost of the repair AND the dealers are offering me a loan car whilst my car is repaired!

 

I really was not expecting that. I really thought I was going to be told to do one!

 

I have to take it to a different garage but that's not a problem. Apparently, the garage I took it too (my local, and one agreed in advanced with the warranty company) quoted £1200 for the repairs and the warranty company feel that's overboard.

No I wasn't expecting that either

 

Good stuff.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Not all car dealers are crooks.

[CarbonVirtine]

4 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Not all car dealers are crooks.

No, it seems not. I've got to say, it's refreshing. 

 

My guess is that the dealers and the warranty company have come to an arrangement.  

[Raj]

Which dealer was it? Worthy of a name check!!

[CarbonVirtine]

22 minutes ago, Raj said:

Which dealer was it? Worthy of a name check!!

I'll wait until I've got a repaired car before I do that, don't want to tempt fate or count chickens or whatever! But even then, I suspect the mods would step in if I named names!

[Trav Le Bleu]

You do all realise that this is all a complete fabrication and that soon the name of the "too-good-to-be-true" car dealer will be revealed, with us none the wiser that the car dealership is run by none other than @CarbonVirtine 

 

Muuuaahahahahahaha!!!!!

[CarbonVirtine]

As if I would do that!

 

Nah, to be honest, the cynic in me is expecting that something's amiss. I've probably bought a lemon, the dealer knows it and no way wants it back on their forecourt! 

 

I thought buying a low mileage vehicle was a good thing, now I'm thinking there's a reason it's low mileage - it keeps breaking down!

[CarbonVirtine]

Final update (I hope!)

 

Picked up the repaired car on Saturday, it has a new DPF fitted as they couldn't do a forced regen.  A new one was my preference, and I would have paid the difference for one, so that's a bonus for me.

 

The dealer said the DPF fluid (EOLYS) had to be refilled to enable them to reset the ECU. That's not strictly true, it's the other way around - you do need to reset the ECU if you refill the EOLYS reservoir. As the ECU doesn't need to know the 'new-ness' of the DPF (the ECU measures the DPF state and does all its trickery with pressure sensors) no refill of EOLYS was necessary really. 

 

Consumable items (such as oil etc) are not covered by the warranty (I accept that 100% btw) and they wanted to charge me for 2 litres of EOLYS at £50 a litre (and they said that was the trade price) That stuff is expensive but not THAT expensive - and I knew that. Plus, the reservoir capacity on the car was only 1.8 litres - so there's no way they could have used 2 litres to top it up. I pondered a moment, thinking I'd already got a new DPF out of the deal so maybe I could just let it slide, but I queried it - said I was pretty sure you could get it for near on half that price - and asked them to check  it for me. The dealer phones their parts supplier and they confirmed a price of £36 a litre... so we agreed on that.

 

Turns out the garage the dealer uses was trying it on with them! It seems it's not the first time either (if conversations I overheard are to be believed).

 

So, fair play to the warranty company and fair play to the dealer - cannot fault either. Fingers crossed that the garage (who have actually done the work) can be trusted. I'll find out in due course.

 

Edited 18 June 2018 by CarbonVirtine