Investments, stocks, shares

[Lako42]

2 minutes ago, Fox1norfolk said:

The market has been quite tricky for a few years. I have been trading just as a hobby for many years, but nevertheless it’s a steep leaning curve with several mistakes en route. What to buy and when to sell is the magic formula.

Time in the market not timing the market

[Fox1norfolk]

6 minutes ago, Lako42 said:

Time in the market not timing the market

Plus avoid the AIM market

[Lako42]

5 minutes ago, Fox1norfolk said:

Plus avoid the AIM market

On a general level I agree, however, some of my best investments have and are on AIM. 

 

Sadly the index gets it's reputation from the many shitty pump n dump stocks that live there. 

 

Research is key and my AIM portfolio is actually up considerably during this Trump sabotage of the main markets. 

[Fox1norfolk]

18 minutes ago, Lako42 said:

On a general level I agree, however, some of my best investments have and are on AIM. 

 

Sadly the index gets it's reputation from the many shitty pump n dump stocks that live there. 

 

Research is key and my AIM portfolio is actually up considerably during this Trump sabotage of the main markets. 

After buying into several companies on the AIM market, many have simply disappeared or are showing major losses. I look out for well known companies who are in a difficult positions, but my gut instinct feel they will turn around. A good example is I bought RR when there was a big question mark over the company a few years ago for 92p and this morning they are hovering around £8

[Lako42]

4 minutes ago, Fox1norfolk said:

After buying into several companies on the AIM market, many have simply disappeared or are showing major losses. I look out for well known companies who are in a difficult positions, but my gut instinct feel they will turn around. A good example is I bought RR when there was a big question mark over the company a few years ago for 92p and this morning they are hovering around £8

Yep, I sold some of my RR shares at a good profit to buy into EEE that I mentioned a while back. 

 

I will be holding these for until they allow me to retire....

[richardsfoxes]

@Lako42 Thank you for EEE, ive put a decent chunk and wait for more RCS announcements and hopefully they can come up with a plan on getting the product to market. A company i would look at if your not in already is GSCU, again do your own research but very very very good results with a lot of institutions collecting. 

Edited 6 March by richardsfoxes

[Lako42]

6 minutes ago, richardsfoxes said:

@Lako42 Thank you for EEE, ive put a decent chunk and wait for more RCS announcements and hopefully they can come up with a plan on getting the product to market. A company i would look at if your not in already is GSCU, again do your own research but very very very good results with a lot of institutions collecting. 

Will take a look. 

 

Will be bumps along the way on Empire but the potential is staggering. Funding news from the Aus government would be one hell of an inflection point and the project has moved at a really good pace so far. Some very serious industry people with great connections involved. 

 

Fingers crossed for us

[Fox1norfolk]

14 minutes ago, Lako42 said:

Yep, I sold some of my RR shares at a good profit to buy into EEE that I mentioned a while back. 

 

I will be holding these for until they allow me to retire....

I have EEE shares which I bought some years ago when they were Georgian Mining, 

[Lako42]

4 minutes ago, Fox1norfolk said:

I have EEE shares which I bought some years ago when they were Georgian Mining, 

LTH indeed

 

They've moved on under SB that's for sure 

[Fox1norfolk]

1 minute ago, Lako42 said:

LTH indeed

 

They've moved on under SB that's for sure 

They are showing around 50% loss from the price I originally paid for GM. 

[richardsfoxes]

11 minutes ago, Lako42 said:

Will take a look. 

 

Will be bumps along the way on Empire but the potential is staggering. Funding news from the Aus government would be one hell of an inflection point and the project has moved at a really good pace so far. Some very serious industry people with great connections involved. 

 

Fingers crossed for us

Huge potential, ive never invested in mining before EEE tbh, i'd be interested to see your thoughts on the potential price per share and what your aiming for when you will start taking profit. I got in very early with this GSCU at 2.5p a share, im aiming at 10-12p then will look at taking half in profits and hold the rest. 

[Tommy G]

2 hours ago, Fox1norfolk said:

The market has been quite tricky for a few years. I have been trading just as a hobby for many years, but nevertheless it’s a steep leaning curve with several mistakes en route. What to buy and when to sell is the magic formula.

Or just stick it in a managed fund. I've never picked and chosen investments as its 90% luck - regular deposit in a diverse fund IMO is safer and still get double digit returns.

[Fox1norfolk]

5 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Or just stick it in a managed fund. I've never picked and chosen investments as its 90% luck - regular deposit in a diverse fund IMO is safer and still get double digit returns.

I am not sure as my portfolio is now showing 57% profit which is far better than any bank, fund or isa. I agree it’s a risk, but I never invest more than I am prepared to lose

[CheeseHead]

53 minutes ago, Fox1norfolk said:

I am not sure as my portfolio is now showing 57% profit which is far better than any bank, fund or isa. I agree it’s a risk, but I never invest more than I am prepared to lose

But over what term? As a true guide to how you are performing vs a standard index such as S&P500 or MSCI World Index, you need to calculate your money-weighted rate of return (quite easily done in an Excel spreadsheet), which caters for the timing and amounts of any ongoing deposits and (if any) withdrawals. If you aren't beating those indices, you will be better off just investing in them. An index averaging 10% per year, with no additional contributions may well show a 50%+ profit in 4 years or so.

[CheeseHead]

2 hours ago, Lako42 said:

Will take a look. 

 

Will be bumps along the way on Empire but the potential is staggering. Funding news from the Aus government would be one hell of an inflection point and the project has moved at a really good pace so far. Some very serious industry people with great connections involved. 

 

Fingers crossed for us

@Lako42 what ever happened to HVO? I remember it was at GBX30 at one point, now seen this morning it's at about GBX17

[Lako42]

7 minutes ago, CheeseHead said:

@Lako42 what ever happened to HVO? I remember it was at GBX30 at one point, now seen this morning it's at about GBX17

A very long story that I will try and explain when I get a moment 

[Lako42]

2 hours ago, richardsfoxes said:

Huge potential, ive never invested in mining before EEE tbh, i'd be interested to see your thoughts on the potential price per share and what your aiming for when you will start taking profit. I got in very early with this GSCU at 2.5p a share, im aiming at 10-12p then will look at taking half in profits and hold the rest. 

Apologies for the length of this but it is very relevent based on Kenmare (titanium miner) being approached for takeover at £5.30 per share. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My thoughts on Kenmare Resources on LSE.

SB did a comparison too and we ended up agreeing that Empire has potential to be multiples of Kenmare (That was when they were £400m MC 12 months ago.

Kenmare’s Primary Operations: They operate the Moma Titanium Minerals Mine in northern Mozambique, which has been in production since 2007.

Resource Estimates:

Ore Reserves: According to a December 31, 2023 report, the Moma Mine’s proved and probable ore reserves are estimated at 1.4 billion tonnes, grading 2.6% ilmenite, 0.17% zircon, and 0.06% rutile. This equates to approximately 37.8 million tonnes of ilmenite, 2.4 million tonnes of zircon, and 0.8 million tonnes of rutile.

Mineral Resources: The total mineral resources, excluding ore reserves, are estimated at 7.5 billion tonnes, grading 2.2% ilmenite, 0.14% zircon, and 0.05% rutile, containing about 162.3 million tonnes of ilmenite, 10.7 million tonnes of zircon, and 3.5 million tonnes of rutile.

Production and Grades:

Ilmenite Production: last year , Kenmare produced approximately 1,008,900 tonnes of ilmenite, a 2% increase in 2023, due to higher ilmenite content in the heavy mineral concentrate and improved recoveries.

Ore Grades: The average ore grade processed last year was 4.17% total heavy minerals, a 5% decrease compared to 2023.

Project Status:

They are currently progressing with the transition of Wet Concentrator Plant A to the Nataka ore zone, the largest ore zone in their portfolio, containing 6.4 billion tonnes of Moma’s 9.0 billion tonnes of mineral resources. This transition is expected to secure production for decades and shareholders expect to maintain their position in the first quartile of the industry revenue-to-cost curve.

Mining Method: Kenmare employs a dredge mining method, utilising floating dredges in artificial mining ponds to extract titanium-rich sands. The dredged material is processed in Wet Concentrator Plants to produce Heavy Mineral Concentrate, which is then separated into final products.

MC: As of today they have a market capitalisation of approximately £264.21 million (was closer to £400m last time I did this comparison).

Empire:

Primary Operations: We are focused on Pitfield, which has shown significant potential for titanium-rich minerals.

Resource Estimates and Grades:

We have confirmed an enormous 32 billion tonnes of inferred ore at Pitfield, containing Ti02 at significantly higher grades than Kenmare’s Moma deposit, exceeding 5% in many areas. This places Pitfield as one of the world’s largest known titanium mineral systems as SB points out at every possible chance.

 

Project Status:

We’re conducting detailed geological studies and drilling campaigns to delineate the extent and grade of the titanium mineralisation and although we’re flying at light speed, it’s still in the early stages, with efforts focused on confirming the resource potential and economic viability. SB has all but shown us the final product in a glass jar (his words last week).

Mining Method: Pitfield is characterised by a weathered cap that is soft and friable, making it amenable to low-cost, open-pit mining methods. The nature of the deposit should allow for efficient extraction of titanium minerals.

MC: As of today, we have an MC of approximately £62 million.

Comparison Summary:

Operational Stage: Kenmare operate an established, producing mine with a defined resource base and ongoing expansion projects. In contrast we’re in the exploration / development phase, working to establish a JORC compliant MRE and assess the feasibility of future mining operations.

Resource and Grades: Kenmare has substantial proven reserves with ilmenite grades averaging 2.6%. We however, have an extraordinary 32 billion tonnes of inferred ore, with titanium dioxide grades exceeding 5% average & far higher in some areas of Pitfield.

Project Development: Kenmare is investing in long-term projects, such as the Nataka transition, to sustain and enhance production.

We are focused on exploration / development activities to validate and quantify the potential of our deposit.

Mining Methods: Kenmare utilises dredge mining in artificial ponds to extract titanium-rich sands, a method suitable for their deposit type. SB plans to employ open-pit mining techniques given the soft and friable nature of the weathered cap at Pitfield, facilitating low-cost extraction.

KR’s market capitalisation is significantly higher than us right now (4 times higher), reflecting their established operations and revenue generation which is understandable. It’s only a matter of time before we 100% confirm the economic viability of our enormous, world class, industry disrupting resource and I believe our valuation will skyrocket.

I personally see a future whereby if KR can successfully transitions to the Nataka ore zone and optimise their production efficiency, their Manx could increase significantly. If they can maintain a stable production growth, their MC could grow to £500-£600 million.

If titanium mineral demand rises (doubling by 2030) and prices strengthen, Kenmare could exceed £750 million IMHO.

If SB & Co. can achieve what they fully believe they can and Pitfield’s potential is fully confirmed and commercialised (looking for customers as we speak), we could reach or exceed Kenmare’s current valuation.

 

Scenario 1: Conservative & unrealistic estimate IMHO.

If we could prove our resource with similar mining economics to KR whilst ramping up operations, a market cap of circa £200 million is absolutely nailed on.

Scenario 2: Mid-Range Estimate (Matching Kenmare)

If the MRE is even a fraction to what is indicated, then we could reasonably reach £300 to £400 million MC.

Scenario 3: Optimistic Upside

Given Pitfield’s vastly larger resource and higher titanium dioxide grades (5%+ TiO2 vs. Kenmare’s 2.6%), and if we can demonstrate economically viable extraction and scale operations beyond Kenmare’s current production, it could surpass £750 million MC.

Scenario 4: Billion-Dollar Potential

If we fully confirmed everything we hope we have (all data suggests this) and we develop Pitfield into a full-scale, globally significant titanium producer, the sheer size of our resource could warrant a MC in the multi-billion-pound range.

For reference, leading titanium producers globally have market capitalisations ranging from £1 billion to £5 billion, depending on scale and profitability. If Pitfield were to reach full production capacity, a valuation north of £1-2 billion would not be unreasonable IMHO.

In summary, I believe KR have a pretty clear pathway to growth, with a potential MC of up to £750 million in the coming years if their projects are fully optimised.

For ourselves, assuming full confirmation of our titanium deposit potential, we could realistically achieve £750 million in market capitalisation, with a long-term upside (2030 & beyond) of circa £1 to £2 billion if we go it alone and develop into a major titanium producer which is what SB has set his target sights on. He said he sees no reason why we can’t hold a 10% to 15% market share of the titanium industry (again 2030 was mentioned). As Pitfield contains 32 billion tonnes of inferred ore at significantly higher grades than Kenmare, a valuation in the multi-billion-pound range is not out of the question if we can prove economic extraction and secure long-term production agreements with buyers of pigment & sponge.

If we can succeed in scaling our operations, we have the potential to not only match (near term), but far exceed Kenmare’s valuation, placing us among the largest, if not the single largest titanium producer globally.

All for 10p per share!

Again, whilst we have a long way to go, the team appear to know what they have & if they can continue to advance the project as they have since May 2023 where we had a lot of important items to be clarified & confirmed (now almost fully confirmed), the upside is far in excess of any downside.

DYOR & ATB

 

Credit to ML on LSE

[Fox1norfolk]

1 hour ago, CheeseHead said:

But over what term? As a true guide to how you are performing vs a standard index such as S&P500 or MSCI World Index, you need to calculate your money-weighted rate of return (quite easily done in an Excel spreadsheet), which caters for the timing and amounts of any ongoing deposits and (if any) withdrawals. If you aren't beating those indices, you will be better off just investing in them. An index averaging 10% per year, with no additional contributions may well show a 50%+ profit in 4 years or so.

I just do it as a hobby as I’m not a serious investor. I tend to just buy and build and sell if at the minimum doubled my investment. My portfolio has companies like Tesco, M&S, IAG, Carnival, RR all of which keep climbing. RR I bought for 92p and today they are around £8 so I’m in no hurry to sell. It’s just one of my interests, my dad got me interested when I was in my twenties and tipped me a good share which I sold with a substantial profit and it payed for the deposit on my first house.

[richardsfoxes]

1 hour ago, Lako42 said:

Apologies for the length of this but it is very relevent based on Kenmare (titanium miner) being approached for takeover at £5.30 per share. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My thoughts on Kenmare Resources on LSE.

SB did a comparison too and we ended up agreeing that Empire has potential to be multiples of Kenmare (That was when they were £400m MC 12 months ago.

Kenmare’s Primary Operations: They operate the Moma Titanium Minerals Mine in northern Mozambique, which has been in production since 2007.

Resource Estimates:

Ore Reserves: According to a December 31, 2023 report, the Moma Mine’s proved and probable ore reserves are estimated at 1.4 billion tonnes, grading 2.6% ilmenite, 0.17% zircon, and 0.06% rutile. This equates to approximately 37.8 million tonnes of ilmenite, 2.4 million tonnes of zircon, and 0.8 million tonnes of rutile.

Mineral Resources: The total mineral resources, excluding ore reserves, are estimated at 7.5 billion tonnes, grading 2.2% ilmenite, 0.14% zircon, and 0.05% rutile, containing about 162.3 million tonnes of ilmenite, 10.7 million tonnes of zircon, and 3.5 million tonnes of rutile.

Production and Grades:

Ilmenite Production: last year , Kenmare produced approximately 1,008,900 tonnes of ilmenite, a 2% increase in 2023, due to higher ilmenite content in the heavy mineral concentrate and improved recoveries.

Ore Grades: The average ore grade processed last year was 4.17% total heavy minerals, a 5% decrease compared to 2023.

Project Status:

They are currently progressing with the transition of Wet Concentrator Plant A to the Nataka ore zone, the largest ore zone in their portfolio, containing 6.4 billion tonnes of Moma’s 9.0 billion tonnes of mineral resources. This transition is expected to secure production for decades and shareholders expect to maintain their position in the first quartile of the industry revenue-to-cost curve.

Mining Method: Kenmare employs a dredge mining method, utilising floating dredges in artificial mining ponds to extract titanium-rich sands. The dredged material is processed in Wet Concentrator Plants to produce Heavy Mineral Concentrate, which is then separated into final products.

MC: As of today they have a market capitalisation of approximately £264.21 million (was closer to £400m last time I did this comparison).

Empire:

Primary Operations: We are focused on Pitfield, which has shown significant potential for titanium-rich minerals.

Resource Estimates and Grades:

We have confirmed an enormous 32 billion tonnes of inferred ore at Pitfield, containing Ti02 at significantly higher grades than Kenmare’s Moma deposit, exceeding 5% in many areas. This places Pitfield as one of the world’s largest known titanium mineral systems as SB points out at every possible chance.

 

Project Status:

We’re conducting detailed geological studies and drilling campaigns to delineate the extent and grade of the titanium mineralisation and although we’re flying at light speed, it’s still in the early stages, with efforts focused on confirming the resource potential and economic viability. SB has all but shown us the final product in a glass jar (his words last week).

Mining Method: Pitfield is characterised by a weathered cap that is soft and friable, making it amenable to low-cost, open-pit mining methods. The nature of the deposit should allow for efficient extraction of titanium minerals.

MC: As of today, we have an MC of approximately £62 million.

Comparison Summary:

Operational Stage: Kenmare operate an established, producing mine with a defined resource base and ongoing expansion projects. In contrast we’re in the exploration / development phase, working to establish a JORC compliant MRE and assess the feasibility of future mining operations.

Resource and Grades: Kenmare has substantial proven reserves with ilmenite grades averaging 2.6%. We however, have an extraordinary 32 billion tonnes of inferred ore, with titanium dioxide grades exceeding 5% average & far higher in some areas of Pitfield.

Project Development: Kenmare is investing in long-term projects, such as the Nataka transition, to sustain and enhance production.

We are focused on exploration / development activities to validate and quantify the potential of our deposit.

Mining Methods: Kenmare utilises dredge mining in artificial ponds to extract titanium-rich sands, a method suitable for their deposit type. SB plans to employ open-pit mining techniques given the soft and friable nature of the weathered cap at Pitfield, facilitating low-cost extraction.

KR’s market capitalisation is significantly higher than us right now (4 times higher), reflecting their established operations and revenue generation which is understandable. It’s only a matter of time before we 100% confirm the economic viability of our enormous, world class, industry disrupting resource and I believe our valuation will skyrocket.

I personally see a future whereby if KR can successfully transitions to the Nataka ore zone and optimise their production efficiency, their Manx could increase significantly. If they can maintain a stable production growth, their MC could grow to £500-£600 million.

If titanium mineral demand rises (doubling by 2030) and prices strengthen, Kenmare could exceed £750 million IMHO.

If SB & Co. can achieve what they fully believe they can and Pitfield’s potential is fully confirmed and commercialised (looking for customers as we speak), we could reach or exceed Kenmare’s current valuation.

 

Scenario 1: Conservative & unrealistic estimate IMHO.

If we could prove our resource with similar mining economics to KR whilst ramping up operations, a market cap of circa £200 million is absolutely nailed on.

Scenario 2: Mid-Range Estimate (Matching Kenmare)

If the MRE is even a fraction to what is indicated, then we could reasonably reach £300 to £400 million MC.

Scenario 3: Optimistic Upside

Given Pitfield’s vastly larger resource and higher titanium dioxide grades (5%+ TiO2 vs. Kenmare’s 2.6%), and if we can demonstrate economically viable extraction and scale operations beyond Kenmare’s current production, it could surpass £750 million MC.

Scenario 4: Billion-Dollar Potential

If we fully confirmed everything we hope we have (all data suggests this) and we develop Pitfield into a full-scale, globally significant titanium producer, the sheer size of our resource could warrant a MC in the multi-billion-pound range.

For reference, leading titanium producers globally have market capitalisations ranging from £1 billion to £5 billion, depending on scale and profitability. If Pitfield were to reach full production capacity, a valuation north of £1-2 billion would not be unreasonable IMHO.

In summary, I believe KR have a pretty clear pathway to growth, with a potential MC of up to £750 million in the coming years if their projects are fully optimised.

For ourselves, assuming full confirmation of our titanium deposit potential, we could realistically achieve £750 million in market capitalisation, with a long-term upside (2030 & beyond) of circa £1 to £2 billion if we go it alone and develop into a major titanium producer which is what SB has set his target sights on. He said he sees no reason why we can’t hold a 10% to 15% market share of the titanium industry (again 2030 was mentioned). As Pitfield contains 32 billion tonnes of inferred ore at significantly higher grades than Kenmare, a valuation in the multi-billion-pound range is not out of the question if we can prove economic extraction and secure long-term production agreements with buyers of pigment & sponge.

If we can succeed in scaling our operations, we have the potential to not only match (near term), but far exceed Kenmare’s valuation, placing us among the largest, if not the single largest titanium producer globally.

All for 10p per share!

Again, whilst we have a long way to go, the team appear to know what they have & if they can continue to advance the project as they have since May 2023 where we had a lot of important items to be clarified & confirmed (now almost fully confirmed), the upside is far in excess of any downside.

DYOR & ATB

 

Credit to ML on LSE

Interesting, hopefully more positive RNS will come and we're all winners. As you said, if the Australia goverment get involved we're in for a big winner. 

[Lako42]

Just now, richardsfoxes said:

Interesting, hopefully more positive RNS will come and we're all winners. As you said, if the Australia goverment get involved we're in for a big winner. 

Some nice accumulation going on from someone today

[Bellend Sebastian]

23 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Don’t know what you’re invested in but I guess Elons poodle would’ve gained you a lot more when he first came in during the trump bump. Typical human fallacy, losses hit us harder than gains 

 

22 hours ago, Tommy G said:

How far away are you from drawing anything?

In reality I couldn't really give a toss about what's going on at the minute as it's pension money that I'm not expecting to touch for at ten years. Also, having been working in financial services since the 90s, I've seen it all before anyway - it's all about those long term fundamentals, baby. 

 

Being fully in ESG investments has probably cost me more than the Orange fatberg of late anyway and when I can be arsed I'll have a look at the options and maybe do a bit of tinkering - the non ESG version of what I'm in is about as good as it gets Managed Portfolio wise but I'll have a look to see what it's invested in before I decide how much I'm prepared to compromise my metropolitan liberal elite principles

 

 

 

 

[grobyfox1990]

2 hours ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

 

In reality I couldn't really give a toss about what's going on at the minute as it's pension money that I'm not expecting to touch for at ten years. Also, having been working in financial services since the 90s, I've seen it all before anyway - it's all about those long term fundamentals, baby. 

 

Being fully in ESG investments has probably cost me more than the Orange fatberg of late anyway and when I can be arsed I'll have a look at the options and maybe do a bit of tinkering - the non ESG version of what I'm in is about as good as it gets Managed Portfolio wise but I'll have a look to see what it's invested in before I decide how much I'm prepared to compromise my metropolitan liberal elite principles

 

 

 

 

What do you mean by ESG investments? Full article 9 compliant? Wouldn't be surprised if you're losing money on article 9 given volume of redemptions, but article 8 funds are broadly up 3 YoY.

[Tommy G]

19 hours ago, Fox1norfolk said:

I just do it as a hobby as I’m not a serious investor. I tend to just buy and build and sell if at the minimum doubled my investment. My portfolio has companies like Tesco, M&S, IAG, Carnival, RR all of which keep climbing. RR I bought for 92p and today they are around £8 so I’m in no hurry to sell. It’s just one of my interests, my dad got me interested when I was in my twenties and tipped me a good share which I sold with a substantial profit and it payed for the deposit on my first house.

I used to work with a guy who was ex RR, quite senior and had shares worth about £250k when they were £2 ish, so he's sitting on a cool £1m now after a few years of just holding, the new CEO is working wonders there for the SP. 

[Lako42]

On 06/03/2025 at 11:04, Fox1norfolk said:

They are showing around 50% loss from the price I originally paid for GM. 

Yes I can imagine, meant more in terms of the business itself and it's prospects. 

 

The strength this week is brilliant. Market catching up with already released news.

[Bellend Sebastian]

2 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

What do you mean by ESG investments? Full article 9 compliant? Wouldn't be surprised if you're losing money on article 9 given volume of redemptions, but article 8 funds are broadly up 3 YoY.

Whether they're article 9 compliant I haven't a clue as that's EU legislation and the portfolio is all UK collectives as far as I know. It's all stuff that will be caught by the SDR rules and I don't believe either of the portfolio ranges I have got their FCA labels yet, or how hard they're trying to get them.

 

It's a minefield and I'm not evangelical about it, you can't be when it's other people making the investment decisions and so much is subjective anyway. I'm just going for stuff where I'm hoping it's less likely my money is being invested in blowing up Gazan hospitals or squirting chemicals into beagles' eyes or whatever.

 

A couple of years ago it was on a great run relative to the the non ESG equivalents but that's flipped on its head of late, but I'm not sure it's doing badly enough for me to give up on my vague principles just yet...

 

Edited 7 March by Bellend Sebastian