Trust Calls On City Fans to Speak Up at Open Meeting

[Alexikokopops]

Overt personal abuse of other posters (unless it’s in jest of course!) .

We all know swisspiss hates me.

I guess you like swisspissing water sports

Now then lush me ol' mucker, you can't really complain about "Overt personal abuse of other posters" if you're going to use the rest of the post to overtly abuse another poster.

[lush]

Do you actually know what the laws are? Is it for example legal for fans to stand to celebrate a goal? For how long? How about if they need to go to the toilet? Is it only groups of fans standing that is illegal? How many qualifies as a group?

Do they have supervisor on hand they can ask for advice?

I think there are a lot of questions to be clarified. The answers might be what we want to hear, they might not. We might give the club some ideas. Pehaps the club could allow the FT to have sight of the training materials used for Stewards.

It can't do any harm for the details to be communicated to fans at this meeting, becuase unlike you Lush, who appears to be terribly well informed about the law and certain that City are implementing it correctly, most fans do not in fact understand the rules to their satisfaction.

I assume its legal to behave in a sensible manner.

I`d be suprised if stewards didnt have a supervisor.

YOU WILL NOT CHANGE THE RULE OF LAW AT THIS MEETING, but you might make a little wee difference.

I never said i was certain the club implement the law correctly, i said theres no evidence that they`ve done wrong. There MIGHT be.

So whats your take on this subject Lisa?

Alex, im quite happy not to "abuse" swisspiss, if he admits that when he did it, he was wrong, and should be punished.

[Jon the Hat]

I assume its legal to behave in a sensible manner.

I`d be suprised if stewards didnt have a supervisor.

YOU WILL NOT CHANGE THE RULE OF LAW AT THIS MEETING, but you might make a little wee difference.

I never said i was certain the club implement the law correctly, i said theres no evidence that they`ve done wrong. There MIGHT be.

So whats your take on this subject Lisa?

Alex, im quite happy not to "abuse" swisspiss, if he admits that when he did it, he was wrong, and should be punished.

What is the definition of sensible? Is yours the same as mine? Is it the same at Tim Davies? Is it the same as a steward?

Progress!! You admit this meeting could make a difference!!

[Guest]

I assume its legal to behave in a sensible manner.

I`d be suprised if stewards didnt have a supervisor.

YOU WILL NOT CHANGE THE RULE OF LAW AT THIS MEETING, but you might make a little wee difference.

I never said i was certain the club implement the law correctly, i said theres no evidence that they`ve done wrong. There MIGHT be.

So whats your take on this subject Lisa?

I think that stewards and police should approach matches, and the supporters, with a modicum of common sense.

If you are going to be a pedant and arrest people for giving the wánker sign at a match, you have to treat the ordinary person on the street, or in their car , in the same way. But they don't.

Football fans have been stereotyped in a certain way. Therefore stewards and police officers, most of whom don't seem to like or understand football, treat a passionate fan as though they are about to kick off for venting their spleen at a poor refereeing decision.

I saw someone arrested and charged for a public order offence for celebrating a goal. By shouting "Come on", the arresting officer thought it was a good idea to drag the guy over a barrier, injuring him in the process, just because he thought it was incitement.

Is that fair?

Until they stop dishing out yellow jackets to jumped up, power-frenzied zealots, stewarding will always be a problem, and until the police learn what being a football fan is about, they'll get the contempt they deserve.

I would rather go along and say my piece than sit on my backside doing nothing, yet moaning about the situation. My gran used to say, "if you don't ask, you don't get".

[lush]

If you are going to be a pedant and arrest people for giving the wánker sign at a match, you have to treat the ordinary person on the street, or in their car , in the same way. But they don't.

Football fans have been stereotyped in a certain way. Therefore stewards and police officers, most of whom don't seem to like or understand football, treat a passionate fan as though they are about to kick off for venting their spleen at a poor refereeing decision.

I saw someone arrested and charged for a public order offence for celebrating a goal. By shouting "Come on", the arresting officer thought it was a good idea to drag the guy over a barrier, injuring him in the process, just because he thought it was incitement.

Is that fair?

Until they stop dishing out yellow jackets to jumped up, power-frenzied zealots, stewarding will always be a problem, and until the police learn what being a football fan is about, they'll get the contempt they deserve.

I would rather go along and say my piece than sit on my backside doing nothing, yet moaning about the situation. My gran used to say, "if you don't ask, you don't get".

I agree with your fist point. The problem i believe tho with this particular incident, is a, the guy who did it admitted it was wrong, and b, where he did it etc, is in a position that could incite violence.

Had he done that where i sit, nothing much wrong, but he did it where away fans could see, and thats just not sensible behaviour IMO. Probably explains why he was ejected.

All the police and stewards ive met and spoke to, like football Lisa. Theres a female lesbian looking policewoman ive spoke to, i think said she is a Liverpool fan. All the stewards seem to like city winning. I think you`d probably find that those police officers who work there, are more likely to like football than not. Ive had many a convo with them. Take them outa uniform, and there more or less the same as us.

How did that fan say "come on"?

Lisa, is your signature, one of my qoutes?

Jon, if you dont understand sensibility at a football ground...

[Guest]

I agree with your fist point. The problem i believe tho with this particular incident, is a, the guy who did it admitted it was wrong, and b, where he did it etc, is in a position that could incite violence.

Had he done that where i sit, nothing much wrong, but he did it where away fans could see, and thats just not sensible behaviour IMO. Probably explains why he was ejected.

All the police and stewards ive met and spoke to, like football Lisa. Theres a female lesbian looking policewoman ive spoke to, i think said she is a Liverpool fan. All the stewards seem to like city winning. I think you`d probably find that those police officers who work there, are more likely to like football than not. Ive had many a convo with them. Take them outa uniform, and there more or less the same as us.

How did that fan say "come on"?

Lisa, is your signature, one of my qoutes?

Jon, if you dont understand sensibility at a football ground...

A lot of the stewards around us are football fans, and they let us get on with it.

It doesn't alter the fact that there are enough stewards who don't like football, and/or think fans are troublemakers. To be honest, I can't see many footy fans discriminating against supporters, can you?

Just because a police officer polices a football match, it doesn't mean that they like football. It's their job to be there. The copper in the example I gave did not like football, or it's fans.

Were you a traffic warden in a previous life by any chance?

[lush]

It doesn't alter the fact that there are enough stewards who don't like football, and/or think fans are troublemakers.

To be honest, I can't see many footy fans discriminating against supporters, can you?

Just because a police officer polices a football match, it doesn't mean that they like football. It's their job to be there. The copper in the example I gave did not like football, or it's fans.

Were you a traffic warden in a previous life by any chance?

Exactly how many stewards at lcfc "don't like football, and/or think fans are troublemakers"? There not there to like footy, so you wont know if one does when they dont say they do. Again, this is a prime example of hysteria being circulated amongst people, deary me.

So football fans never sing derogatory songs towards other fans you must be wearing a clowns suit right now.

Did that copper TELL you he/she didnt like football? Refer to point one aswell.

Its not justyfiable to attack stewards and police when theres no proof of wrong doing, just like what you and others are crying about when you describe a fan has been wrong done.

WHAT YOU DO NOW, AFFECTS 20,000 PEOPLE.

[Guest]

Exactly how many stewards at lcfc "don't like football, and/or think fans are troublemakers"? There not there to like footy, so you wont know if one does when they dont say they do. Again, this is a prime example of hysteria being circulated amongst people, deary me.

So football fans never sing derogatory songs towards other fans you must be wearing a clowns suit right now.

Did that copper TELL you he/she didnt like football? Refer to point one aswell.

Its not justyfiable to attack stewards and police when theres no proof of wrong doing, just like what you and others are crying about when you describe a fan has been wrong done.

WHAT YOU DO NOW, AFFECTS 20,000 PEOPLE.

Firstly, I've never denied fans sing derogatory songs.

Secondly, that copper told a court his opinions of football fans.

Thirdly, the only person on this forum who tries to bring "hysteria" into his argument is yourself.

Fourthly, you make it sound like police and stewards are victims of some atrocity. They are not. Some have had their methods and reasoning questioned. Perhaps you are not a ST holder after all, not a steward yourself by any chance?

[MC Prussian]

A general statement:

The thing with you Lush is that, whatever the topic may be, your opinion appears quite ignorant and arrogant, and you've shown that particular behaviour many, many times before on other threads. Plus, you refuse to cooperate and rather stand by your own. O.K., go ahead. But then, don't slate others for doing something while you watch them from your window sill. That's coward.

You ask "questions" when you don't have an answer yourself. And when others answer them, you attack them for being wrong. What sense does it make to start a discussion when you're so convinced that your world view is the only acceptable one anyway? What sense does it make to post on here then?

You think that with your input, people will do exactly as you tell them. That's manipulative. And dangerous.

Your solutions are holy, untouchable. Whoever opposes you, is automatically slated a "wrongdoer".

As soon as people tell you about your logical and argumentative mistakes, you either close the curtain and accuse others of "wrongdoing" or you make things up that didn't exist before (misquotations, etc.)

Neither fair nor very gentleman-like, my crazy friend.

And I have never heard you say sorry. So far, you appear to be unable to critize yourself and the use of attacks on others is rather single-minded and is usually the stuff kids do when they have no valid point to make or when they lie. Grow up, my crazy friend. Apologies?

I dislike telling you the same stuff over and over again. Things that you've been told by others as well. Nevertheless, you ramble on and on and on... Judging from your profile, you're too old to change. Your mind is set. What a shame.

[lush]

Firstly, I've never denied fans sing derogatory songs.

Thirdly, the only person on this forum who tries to bring "hysteria" into his argument is yourself.

Fourthly, you make it sound like police and stewards are victims of some atrocity.

So what do you mean by "To be honest, I can't see many footy fans discriminating against supporters, can you?"?

Explain the hysteria ive produced?

Lisa, not all lcfc players are bad, but they`ll be folk in society claim that city arnt good, that doesnt mean good players are poor. Your suggesting that police and stewards behave better, but there not all bad. I suggest you pin point the bad ones with evidence, and then ask the club to take action?

swisspiss, what is wrong with my stance on this subject?

[MC Prussian]

The fact that you don't challenge my thread means to me that I am right in that matter. You should know better, my crazy friend.

[lush]

I`d rather talk about the thread subject. If you wana discuss bollax, pm me.

[MC Prussian]

Then better start talking and discussing than continuing to claim.

[lush]

Ive expressed my point, and tried to explain the harm those who think blood lives in stone, that what there doing could well result in violent bother for 20,000 people.

Whats your stance?

[Jon the Hat]

Ive expressed my point, and tried to explain the harm those who think blood lives in stone, that what there doing could well result in violent bother for 20,000 people.

Whats your stance?

Not trying to spread hysteria then Lush!!! If we raise these subjects at the meeting the Stewards are going to start attacking everyone in the ground!! All 20,00 of them!!

But the Stewards are friendly football fans like us aren't they??

[bluefrizby]

FAO Lush, Jon the hat, SwissFox,Lisa etc

Now that I have eventually got to the end of the thread.....are any of you going to the open meeting to air your views?

[Jon the Hat]

FAO Lush, Jon the hat, SwissFox,Lisa etc

Now that I have eventually got to the end of the thread.....are any of you going to the open meeting to air your views?

No. I live 150 Miles away so I'm relying on Lisa to tell it like it is!

[bluefrizby]

No. I live 150 Miles away so I'm relying on Lisa to tell it like it is!

Thanks for the reply JTH, anything you want raising?

[Guest]

FAO Lush, Jon the hat, SwissFox,Lisa etc

Now that I have eventually got to the end of the thread.....are any of you going to the open meeting to air your views?

Of course I'll be there!!

[MC Prussian]

FAO Lush, Jon the hat, SwissFox,Lisa etc

Now that I have eventually got to the end of the thread.....are any of you going to the open meeting to air your views?

You know where I live?

[Guest]

So what do you mean by "To be honest, I can't see many footy fans discriminating against supporters, can you?"?

Explain the hysteria ive produced?

Lisa, not all lcfc players are bad, but they`ll be folk in society claim that city arnt good, that doesnt mean good players are poor. Your suggesting that police and stewards behave better, but there not all bad. I suggest you pin point the bad ones with evidence, and then ask the club to take action?

swisspiss, what is wrong with my stance on this subject?

You really haven't got a clue....

What I mean, in plain and simple English, is if a football fan is a steward, they would have more of an understanding of the behaviour of another fan. Say for example the ref gives a dubious penalty against your team, you stand up and scream some profanity at the ref, a football fan steward would let it go. A steward who had little or no understanding of what it is to be a fan would have you out for a public disorder offence.

Your longer paragraph makes no sense at all. It is contradictory.

[lush]

if a football fan is a steward, they would have more of an understanding of the behaviour of another fan.

Say for example the ref gives a dubious penalty against your team, you stand up and scream some profanity at the ref, a football fan steward would let it go. A steward who had little or no understanding of what it is to be a fan would have you out for a public disorder offence.

Your longer paragraph makes no sense at all. It is contradictory.

Oh i see well i agree with you, football fans would be better suited being stewards. So how many current stewards are city fans?

I assume a steward would let it go if they didnt break the rules. Can you imagine how stupid it be, if a steward punished someone for not doing something wrong, be a joke.

Lisa, folk here are genralising, that all stewards and policemen/women are poor. Thats what i mean be this hysteria to incite violence. Like i said, i suggest you/everyone concerened, pin point a steward or policeman whos done wrong, and ask questions about them tomorrow?

Ask this for me tomorrow. Has any lcfc official been caught of wrong doing v cov, or any game this season. If the answer is yes, what has been the punishment? If the answer is no, you have wasted your time.

LCFC CANNOT CHANGE THE RULES. If they liberalise them, then they are breaking the law, and they wont do that im sure.

[Foxes_Trust]

You seriously think gary lineker or martin oneill or muzzy izzet etc etc etc etc wouldnt have come up with 100k to save the club between them, your DAFT!!

"sir" gary doesnt have to provide 50k after that dark cold day when you saved us from oblivion

How do you work that one out?

Neither Muz or MON invested £1 in the club, wild guesses with no knowledge, you will be telling me Englebert would have done it next (no he wouldn't he was approached & didn't want to know)

There are sensible ways in which you cry for attention. If you new there was a bomb in the ground, you wouldnt blab your mouth off, you`d quietly tell authority, because its sensible and less chance of hurt.

Getting the word out that theres discord amongst how many thousands, is damaging to the wellbeing and safety of ALL concerned at the ground come matchday. You have prooved irresponsible, YET AGAIN.

"We don't want hatred of stewards, we want fans to be treated as customers, as many of the stewards at our stadium do, but there seem to be too many exceptions."

Then you say:

"Stewarding has a customer service element as well as enforcing the rules, from the feedback it is clear some have forgotten the former"

Were you a politician in a former life. You spin like a true modern day politician, deceive and dare i say discriminate. You have completely proven to all here in public that your NOT responsible enough in your position.

What does SAG stand for? Did it enter your brain that lcfc may well implement the standing law to its rule (for our safety), but other clubs dont? You may well be witnissing poor law abiders at other grounds.

We are fully responsible & won't shy away of highlighing an issue which is driving fans away from the club. A line has to be re-drawn to ensure a better balance is achieved between safety & being allowed to passionately support our club.

Other clubs manage it, our SAG (safety advisory group) needs to adjust its thinking, it is overseeing a football stadium, not a library. It also needs to examine if the same venue was used for a pop concert, what actions would then be allowed. How long would fans be standing & swaying then? If its safe then why isn't it when 22 men chase a plastic ball?

[Foxes_Trust]

3, wheres 2? there MAY be 1 or 10 stewards that arnt upto the job, 1 or 3 that done wrong v cov. But whats being said here in the run up to this meeting and at home games, is the opinion that most of the hundreds of stewards and police arnt upto the job. That is inciting unecessary hatred on a large scale. FT is the main instigater behind this, there being irresponsible.

Where did we state that "hundreds of stewards and police arnt upto the job" -plucking random numbers in desparation to back up your statements are you?

We have said there are 'a number of' - we have not quantified it, our members have quoted instances to us & these examples given refer to some stewards in 3 of the 4 stands.

City arnt doing too well, if lcfc officials tell FT and others that all is being done (no one has been proven to be done bad), and the fans dont agree (as they dont now), then you have a stand off situation, coupled with city not doing well, and pottential for a riot.

We have provided our members comments to the club detailed by stand, these numerous comments cannot be ignored

Both FT and fans have immense influence, but its how you go about using it that decides how good it can be.

If WE wanted a player out, and the club said no, all we gota do is not go, and the club would HAVE to agree.

However, if we wanted the rules changing, and the club couldnt change them, there would be no point us not going.

The FT will never campaign against a player, our role is not to pick the team & certainly not to target a particular player for abuse.

This is what keep trying to explain, lcfc CANNOT change the rules themselves, it is a nationwide footballing law introduced via the Hillsborough disaster etc.

Agreed, but the rules are interpretated differently from one ground to the next & ours follow a very strict basis.

[lush]

How do you work that one out? Neither Muz or MON invested £1 in the club, wild guesses with no knowledge,

We are fully responsible & won't shy away of highlighing an issue which is driving fans away from the club.

A line has to be re-drawn to ensure a better balance is achieved between safety & being allowed to passionately support our club.

Other clubs manage it, our SAG (safety advisory group) needs to adjust its thinking, it is overseeing a football stadium, not a library.

I said them plus gary lineker combined...yet again you show your politician-like spin capabilities. YOU ARE A SHAM.

Isnt it the case tho FT, that the problem is something that on this occasion, should not be inflamed. Do you not realise the anger surrounding this, that sounds violent to me.

Your 3rd point completely supports what im saying. All your doing, is saying theres a problem accross the board of stewarding, YET, you have not ONE case of cold hard facts to back up a problem. You have turned into the pied piper of hatred towards officials at lcfc.

I think you just love dressing up in panto gear, tis the season ispose...

I`d like to know what Ric Flair, mr c, scowy and davieg think of this subject?

We have said there are 'a number of' - we have not quantified it, our members have quoted instances to us & these examples given refer to some stewards in 3 of the 4 stands.

We have provided our members comments to the club detailed by stand, these numerous comments cannot be ignored

Agreed, but the rules are interpretated differently from one ground to the next & ours follow a very strict basis.

So what number of stewrds/policemen? Come on, spit it out, tell us what you think?

So your standing your ground (no pun intended), your demanding a solution on behalf of your members. You are not taking no for an answer. FT, what you going to do when the club cannot help you? Hold a protest, start a riot, what?

Ok FT, so you want the club to break the law by liberalising the law, which means, if a disaster happens because of, OUR ground could be CLOSED DOWN YOU FOOL. You just dont **** get it do you.

Football clubs have safety rules of law, they are for the benefit of ALL of us. If you dont like them, contact your **** MP!!

Sorry about the swearing mr c, its a one off mate.