US Presidential Election 2024

[grobyfox1990]

4 hours ago, MPH said:

Another potentially important development… The Washington post, for the first time since the 70s, have refused to endorse the Democratic Candidate for the presidency..

It’s not surprising imo, bezos owns them. Plus the Dimocrats haven’t made a case as to why you should vote for them. Apart from ‘the other side is bad’ - woefully poor campaigning 

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

It’s not surprising imo, bezos owns them. Plus the Dimocrats haven’t made a case as to why you should vote for them. Apart from ‘the other side is bad’ - woefully poor campaigning 

... and I'm sure all the future Heather Heyers, Leelah Alcorns, school shooting victims and climate refugees will happily understand that their plight is down to the Dems somehow not being solid enough on policy.

[grobyfox1990]

11 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

... and I'm sure all the future Heather Heyers, Leelah Alcorns, school shooting victims and climate refugees will happily understand that their plight is down to the Dems somehow not being solid enough on policy.

But those working families crushed by inflation will happily understand that. We saw in July that campaigning on the current administrations ineptness is sufficient. 

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, grobyfox1990 said:

But those working families crushed by inflation will happily understand that. We saw in July that campaigning on the current administrations ineptness is sufficient. 

Clearly those people mentioned above are considered expendable by those "working families crushed by inflation", then.

 

Up until the point reality bites even for them, given the actions of a Trump administration will turn out long term negative for practically everyone.

[leicsmac]

To echo a sentiment from a while back: "your concerns may be legitimate, but perhaps neofascist enablers shouldn't be your answer?"

[grobyfox1990]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Clearly those people mentioned above are considered expendable by those "working families crushed by inflation", then.

 

Up until the point reality bites even for them, given the actions of a Trump administration will turn out long term negative for practically everyone.

Reality is biting for them, right now. Much like it did for many of us in the uk.

It’s also frustratingly annoying how the Harris campaign works on trump rhetoric. All of his vote winning policies = he’s lying, he won’t do anything.

All of his conservative policy = omg he’s gonna kill the world!!!

Funny how he’ll be competent enough to destroy the world, but nothing else. Woeful campaign and they’ve a lot to answer for 

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Reality is biting for them, right now. Much like it did for many of us in the uk.

 

And they're making a costly decision based on short term self interest. Again, that's between them and their own conscience, but I don't expect others to be so understanding of it.

 

8 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

 

It’s also frustratingly annoying how the Harris campaign works on trump rhetoric. All of his vote winning policies = he’s lying, he won’t do anything.

All of his conservative policy = omg he’s gonna kill the world!!!

Speaking personally, I don't think the man was incompetent in terms of his deeds at all, even if his words lied. The Supreme Court appointments followed by their decisions and shredding of pretty much any environmental protection policy, for two things.

 

He set out to do what he wanted, it happened that a great deal of it was bad for everyone outside a particular bubble.

 

11 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Woeful campaign and they’ve a lot to answer for 

I wonder if most look back at roughly a hundred years ago and put the blame for the darkness then on the opposition not doing enough to keep the darkness out.

[leicsmac]

It's also unfortunate that a lot of Latino blokes have bought into Trumps ideas (even to the point of being elected to office as Repubs) given that the "jokes" made by folks like Hinchcliffe is what the Repub voter base mostly really thinks of them.

[fox_up_north]

The Blacks for Trump and Latinos for Trump campaigns absolutely blow my mind. This is a man who has been outwardly racist to them but they still say "nope, bloke's the man for me".

[grobyfox1990]

24 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And they're making a costly decision based on short term self interest. Again, that's between them and their own conscience, but I don't expect others to be so understanding of it.

 

Speaking personally, I don't think the man was incompetent in terms of his deeds at all, even if his words lied. The Supreme Court appointments followed by their decisions and shredding of pretty much any environmental protection policy, for two things.

 

He set out to do what he wanted, it happened that a great deal of it was bad for everyone outside a particular bubble.

 

I wonder if most look back at roughly a hundred years ago and put the blame for the darkness then on the opposition not doing enough to keep the darkness out.

Aye true and I’ve just noticed your username so I get your position on this. You’re clearly forthright in your view which is cool but I’m still yet to hear a decent argument for voting FOR Harris.

I’ll be back and have time during the Xmas home matches, we should slam a few beers with Guesty from the atmosphere thread and dr Singh. Once a prowling Phil bowman has vindicated me via an emoji I’ll be happy!! 

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

The Blacks for Trump and Latinos for Trump campaigns absolutely blow my mind. This is a man who has been outwardly racist to them but they still say "nope, bloke's the man for me".

It's the acts of some of his supporter based willing to act on that xenophobia that blows the mind, too.

 

If nothing else, this is all going to make a fascinating case study of how your can make turkeys vote for Christmas if you promise (lie) about giving them an extra bob in their back pocket for the moment.

[leicsmac]

18 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Aye true and I’ve just noticed your username so I get your position on this. You’re clearly forthright in your view which is cool but I’m still yet to hear a decent argument for voting FOR Harris.

I’ll be back and have time during the Xmas home matches, we should slam a few beers with Guesty from the atmosphere thread and dr Singh. Once a prowling Phil bowman has vindicated me via an emoji I’ll be happy!! 

Haha, I'd like that!

 

And yeah, I'm pretty forthright on it, the environmental policy decisions alone are enough of an argument to vote for Harris IMO, anyone vaguely clued up on what's coming should know that. The viewpoints towards anyone outside of a very particular demographic and views on gun control etc just add weight.

[LiberalFox]

What exactly are the reasons people have to vote for Donald Trump? 

[grobyfox1990]

15 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

What exactly are the reasons people have to vote for Donald Trump? 

The pitch is simple to understand and very similar to Labour's. The Harris campaign is similar to the amateur rubbish we saw from Sunak in July and leading up to Wednesday's budget.

GOP - 'We've both had the same amount of time in office, where you better off under me or her.'

Dimocrats/Tories - 'he's gonna ruin the world, you have no idea how bad it'll get!!!' 

Lots of people - 'Life is quite bad for us right now dude'

Fortunately for us, Starmer is a whole lot more impressive than Trump.

[MPH]

3 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Again, if people want to blame the Dems for all this and stump for Trump for their own short-term economic reasons, that's between them and their own conscience.

 

I just wonder, a while down the line, all those people outside his and his supporters favoured demographic that suffer and those in other places forced to migrate or die due to changes that he didn't care about and are looking to find those culpable and to hold people accountable for it hold the same understanding disposition. I doubt it.

 

Given all that's happened over the last eightish years, "Not Trump" should be an entirely legit political position on its own and I'm yet to hear a cogent or anywhere convincing argument otherwise.

 

Personally, I don’t understand the idea that if you feel like you are not able to vote for The Dems that you must vote for Trump. How can one’s political leanings swing so much? Can’t you just  not vote? It backs up what I said previously about policies being more important than morality ( to some Americans)

 

 

I’d really like to see the emergence of a credible 3rd major political party in the States. That would obviously rock the other two to the core and would hopefully re-shale their focus…

Edited 28 October 2024 by MPH

[leicsmac]

21 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

Personally, I don’t understand the idea that if you feel like you are not able to vote for The Dems that you must vote for Trump. How can one’s political leanings swing so much? Can’t you just  not vote? It backs up what I said previously about policies being more important than morality.

 

 

I’d really like to see the emergence of a credible 3rd major political party in the States. That would obviously rock the other two to the core and would hopefully re-shale their focus…

I think there are quite a few people who simply do just stay home, but yeah.

 

I'd like to see a viable third party too, but I think it would take a real paradigm shift in the entire US philosophy for it to happen - thank Reagan and his shifting of the entire Overton Window so violently rightward for that.

[bovril]

1 hour ago, LiberalFox said:

What exactly are the reasons people have to vote for Donald Trump? 

I think a lot of politics these days at least in the English speaking world is just about beating people you don't like, and not just beating them but humiliating them. 

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, bovril said:

I think a lot of politics these days at least in the English speaking world is just about beating people you don't like, and not just beating them but humiliating them. 

The political has become personal for a lot of people in the last decade or two, agreed.

 

That being said, that's just a backslide to historical circumstances rather than an aberration and is prevalent a lot outside the Anglophone, I think. Fundamental human rights have been something that have had to have been fought tooth and nail for and clearly still are.

 

Sad reflection of the times we live in.

[grobyfox1990]

24 minutes ago, bovril said:

I think a lot of politics these days at least in the English speaking world is just about beating people you don't like, and not just beating them but humiliating them. 

I think the labour campaign was refreshingly different, they didn't do much, just let the car crash of the Tory party speak for themselves.

Since 2016 media outlets have figured out that you can split people into 'left' and 'right.' The 'left' can tell you how clever they are and the 'right' can tell you only they can save the world from further destruction and media makes tonnes of cash. When in reality we're all a bunch of slaves who exist for a pay cheque from our overlords to pay bills to our other overlords. It's a shame us as a population are so stupid that we've bought into it all with such gusto. You'll have people on here who've likely never set foot in the USA thinking the yanks are idiots for voting Trump. Unimaginable levels of stupidity. 

[bovril]

2 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

I think the labour campaign was refreshingly different, they didn't do much, just let the car crash of the Tory party speak for themselves.

Since 2016 media outlets have figured out that you can split people into 'left' and 'right.' The 'left' can tell you how clever they are and the 'right' can tell you only they can save the world from further destruction and media makes tonnes of cash. When in reality we're all a bunch of slaves who exist for a pay cheque from our overlords to pay bills to our other overlords. It's a shame us as a population are so stupid that we've bought into it all with such gusto. You'll have people on here who've likely never set foot in the USA thinking the yanks are idiots for voting Trump. Unimaginable levels of stupidity. 

I don't think it's a deliberate thing. I know it's a convenient bogeyman but I think a lot of it is just down to social media making us more narcissistic and confrontational. Nobody would really speak to someone face to face the way they speak on social media, but for a lot of people something like twitter has become their primary daily interaction, certainly when it comes to politics. As a result you get stuff like this:

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2505464/democratic-organizer-jordan-bowen-faces-backlash-for-screaming-at-child-during-kamala-harris-rally

[Torquay Gunner]

8 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

I think the labour campaign was refreshingly different, they didn't do much, just let the car crash of the Tory party speak for themselves.

Since 2016 media outlets have figured out that you can split people into 'left' and 'right.' The 'left' can tell you how clever they are and the 'right' can tell you only they can save the world from further destruction and media makes tonnes of cash. When in reality we're all a bunch of slaves who exist for a pay cheque from our overlords to pay bills to our other overlords. It's a shame us as a population are so stupid that we've bought into it all with such gusto. You'll have people on here who've likely never set foot in the USA thinking the yanks are idiots for voting Trump. Unimaginable levels of stupidity. 

Ha, I have set foot in the US, as I am sure many other anti-Trump posters have and yes they are idiots if they vote Trump in for a second time.  In your words they really would show unimaginable levels of stupidity by doing so. 

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

I think the labour campaign was refreshingly different, they didn't do much, just let the car crash of the Tory party speak for themselves.

Since 2016 media outlets have figured out that you can split people into 'left' and 'right.' The 'left' can tell you how clever they are and the 'right' can tell you only they can save the world from further destruction and media makes tonnes of cash. When in reality we're all a bunch of slaves who exist for a pay cheque from our overlords to pay bills to our other overlords. It's a shame us as a population are so stupid that we've bought into it all with such gusto. You'll have people on here who've likely never set foot in the USA thinking the yanks are idiots for voting Trump. Unimaginable levels of stupidity. 

Key word in that sentence being "likely". Some might have spent time there, have reasonable knowledge of the people and the politics, and still think that those voting for Trump are misguided and/or massively self interested, among other adjectives (wouldn't use the term stupid, myself).

 

Do agree that the bigger issue is inequality based first and foremost, though.

 

3 minutes ago, bovril said:

I don't think it's a deliberate thing. I know it's a convenient bogeyman but I think a lot of it is just down to social media making us more narcissistic and confrontational. Nobody would really speak to someone face to face the way they speak on social media, but for a lot of people something like twitter has become their primary daily interaction, certainly when it comes to politics. As a result you get stuff like this:

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2505464/democratic-organizer-jordan-bowen-faces-backlash-for-screaming-at-child-during-kamala-harris-rally

I don't think it is a coincidence that things have become more polarised as social media has gathered strength and the idea of truth is being subverted.

[MPH]

13 minutes ago, Torquay Gunner said:

Ha, I have set foot in the US, as I am sure many other anti-Trump posters have and yes they are idiots if they vote Trump in for a second time.  In your words they really would show unimaginable levels of stupidity by doing so. 

 
 

and yet amazingly there are many highly intelligent people at the hospital I work for that Vote for Trump. Surgeons, Drs..

 

Dont fall for the media  version of Trump supporters as all being stupid. That might be how they are portrayed, but it’s certainly not the case..

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, MPH said:

 
 

and yet amazingly there are many highly intelligent people at the hospital I work for that Vote for Trump. Surgeons, Drs..

 

Dont fall for the media  version of Trump supporters as all being stupid. That might be how they are portrayed, but it’s certainly not the case..

They're certainly not all stupid (again, wouldn't use that word myself anyway).

 

But the smart ones are definitely driven by a fair amount of self interest at the expense of other people. Is that really a desirable quality?

[MPH]

8 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

They're certainly not all stupid (again, wouldn't use that word myself anyway).

 

But the smart ones are definitely driven by a fair amount of self interest at the expense of other people. Is that really a desirable quality?

 

oh I wasn’t defending them.  Just commenting on the power of the media and their portrayal of people.

 

 

But I will say that very few people opt to vote for someone who isn’t  aligned with what they believe. A form of selfishness in its purest form, so to speak..