Micky Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 Its obvious that many people on this forum don't like micky for his team selections, tactics, dialogue, attitude etc but if we continue to keep this decent(ish) form for the remainder of the season and find ourselves in the top two are you going to change your minds - irrespective of who plays (whether its all the old players) and the style of play? Myself, well I will be quite happy if we grind out results with the old guard and it gets us promotion. I also have enough faith in micky to put the youngsters in when HE feels they are ready. For me at the moment, stearman is not strong or old enough and wright has not performed consistently even at reserve level. I also believe that the physical nature of the championship means that you need experienced players who know how to handle themselves - like keown, dabizas, wilcox, blake - perhaps not blake!. Whats anyone else's opinion?
Mark Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 No not me It's only this season where i've started saying Adams out. Its been 3 years and what future have we got? IF we got promoted this season (i dont think we will though with the way we are playing at home), Adams would bring in a new squad for next season with no money and we'd get relegated again. He needs to bring through some of our own younger players, but after 3 years he STILL shows no intention of doing so. Its all well and good Benjamin and Dublin doing a job at Gillingham, but are either going to be here next season? No, well i hope not anyway cause they are not good enough, neither is Blake. He'd just find cheap replacements and its not good enough. He isnt good enough. Style of play, subs, arrogance, excuses, discipline. Unless he changed and actually showed he cared about the future of this club then i'll never change my mind.
Micky Posted 30 September 2004 Author Posted 30 September 2004 No not me It's only this season where i've started saying Adams out. Its been 3 years and what future have we got? IF we got promoted this season (i dont think we will though with the way we are playing at home), Adams would bring in a new squad for next season with no money and we'd get relegated again. He needs to bring through some of our own younger players, but after 3 years he STILL shows no intention of doing so. Its all well and good Benjamin and Dublin doing a job at Gillingham, but are either going to be here next season? No, well i hope not anyway cause they are not good enough, neither is Blake. He'd just find cheap replacements and its not good enough. He isnt good enough. Style of play, subs, arrogance, excuses, discipline. Unless he changed and actually showed he cared about the future of this club then i'll never change my mind. 23461[/snapback] What so you'd take promotion in say 3 years with a young team rather than promotion this season with the old guard?
Mark Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 No not me It's only this season where i've started saying Adams out. Its been 3 years and what future have we got? IF we got promoted this season (i dont think we will though with the way we are playing at home), Adams would bring in a new squad for next season with no money and we'd get relegated again. He needs to bring through some of our own younger players, but after 3 years he STILL shows no intention of doing so. Its all well and good Benjamin and Dublin doing a job at Gillingham, but are either going to be here next season? No, well i hope not anyway cause they are not good enough, neither is Blake. He'd just find cheap replacements and its not good enough. He isnt good enough. Style of play, subs, arrogance, excuses, discipline. Unless he changed and actually showed he cared about the future of this club then i'll never change my mind. 23461[/snapback] What so you'd take promotion in say 3 years with a young team rather than promotion this season with the old guard? 23462[/snapback] Definately, we'd be more prepared and we'd have a team spirit with players that actually know each other and want to play for the team.
Micky Posted 30 September 2004 Author Posted 30 September 2004 No not me It's only this season where i've started saying Adams out. Its been 3 years and what future have we got? IF we got promoted this season (i dont think we will though with the way we are playing at home), Adams would bring in a new squad for next season with no money and we'd get relegated again. He needs to bring through some of our own younger players, but after 3 years he STILL shows no intention of doing so. Its all well and good Benjamin and Dublin doing a job at Gillingham, but are either going to be here next season? No, well i hope not anyway cause they are not good enough, neither is Blake. He'd just find cheap replacements and its not good enough. He isnt good enough. Style of play, subs, arrogance, excuses, discipline. Unless he changed and actually showed he cared about the future of this club then i'll never change my mind. 23461[/snapback] What so you'd take promotion in say 3 years with a young team rather than promotion this season with the old guard? 23462[/snapback] Definately, we'd be more prepared and we'd have a team spirit with players that actually know each other and want to play for the team. 23463[/snapback] I think you'd definately be in a minority there. The club would never choose that route either as the financial lure of the premier is too good to miss out on. There thoughts are certainly going to be about getting promotion as quickly as possible and in my opinion a team full of youngsters would struggle in the championship. I really do believe that if these kids were good enough they would be given a chance. Whatsmore, the reserves (that contain several youngsters week in week out) is struggling for results. This hardly bodes well.
Mark Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 No not me It's only this season where i've started saying Adams out. Its been 3 years and what future have we got? IF we got promoted this season (i dont think we will though with the way we are playing at home), Adams would bring in a new squad for next season with no money and we'd get relegated again. He needs to bring through some of our own younger players, but after 3 years he STILL shows no intention of doing so. Its all well and good Benjamin and Dublin doing a job at Gillingham, but are either going to be here next season? No, well i hope not anyway cause they are not good enough, neither is Blake. He'd just find cheap replacements and its not good enough. He isnt good enough. Style of play, subs, arrogance, excuses, discipline. Unless he changed and actually showed he cared about the future of this club then i'll never change my mind. 23461[/snapback] What so you'd take promotion in say 3 years with a young team rather than promotion this season with the old guard? 23462[/snapback] Definately, we'd be more prepared and we'd have a team spirit with players that actually know each other and want to play for the team. 23463[/snapback] I think you'd definately be in a minority there. The club would never choose that route either as the financial lure of the premier is too good to miss out on. There thoughts are certainly going to be about getting promotion as quickly as possible and in my opinion a team full of youngsters would struggle in the championship. I really do believe that if these kids were good enough they would be given a chance. Whatsmore, the reserves (that contain several youngsters week in week out) is struggling for results. This hardly bodes well. 23465[/snapback] Who said a team full of youngsters? I didnt so where you get that from? I want a mix, which we wont get under this idiot. The reserves doesnt contain several youngsters, its more or less 10 or even 11 youth team players every week. Of course that doesnt get results, they need experience around them. And if Micky had any sense he'd bring the likes of Wright, Dawson & Stearman into the first team.... NOW to play with the decent experienced players we have. Its no use filling the team with experience just for the sake of it, it gets us nowhere, plus its horrible to sit through.
Babylon Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 No not me It's only this season where i've started saying Adams out. Its been 3 years and what future have we got? IF we got promoted this season (i dont think we will though with the way we are playing at home), Adams would bring in a new squad for next season with no money and we'd get relegated again. He needs to bring through some of our own younger players, but after 3 years he STILL shows no intention of doing so. Its all well and good Benjamin and Dublin doing a job at Gillingham, but are either going to be here next season? No, well i hope not anyway cause they are not good enough, neither is Blake. He'd just find cheap replacements and its not good enough. He isnt good enough. Style of play, subs, arrogance, excuses, discipline. Unless he changed and actually showed he cared about the future of this club then i'll never change my mind. 23461[/snapback] What so you'd take promotion in say 3 years with a young team rather than promotion this season with the old guard? 23462[/snapback] Or we could play a load of youngsters and end up in the bottom three like forest.
Micky Posted 30 September 2004 Author Posted 30 September 2004 No not me It's only this season where i've started saying Adams out. Its been 3 years and what future have we got? IF we got promoted this season (i dont think we will though with the way we are playing at home), Adams would bring in a new squad for next season with no money and we'd get relegated again. He needs to bring through some of our own younger players, but after 3 years he STILL shows no intention of doing so. Its all well and good Benjamin and Dublin doing a job at Gillingham, but are either going to be here next season? No, well i hope not anyway cause they are not good enough, neither is Blake. He'd just find cheap replacements and its not good enough. He isnt good enough. Style of play, subs, arrogance, excuses, discipline. Unless he changed and actually showed he cared about the future of this club then i'll never change my mind. 23461[/snapback] What so you'd take promotion in say 3 years with a young team rather than promotion this season with the old guard? 23462[/snapback] Definately, we'd be more prepared and we'd have a team spirit with players that actually know each other and want to play for the team. 23463[/snapback] I think you'd definately be in a minority there. The club would never choose that route either as the financial lure of the premier is too good to miss out on. There thoughts are certainly going to be about getting promotion as quickly as possible and in my opinion a team full of youngsters would struggle in the championship. I really do believe that if these kids were good enough they would be given a chance. Whatsmore, the reserves (that contain several youngsters week in week out) is struggling for results. This hardly bodes well. 23465[/snapback] Who said a team full of youngsters? I didnt so where you get that from? I want a mix, which we wont get under this idiot. The reserves doesnt contain several youngsters, its more or less 10 or even 11 youth team players every week. Of course that doesnt get results, they need experience around them. And if Micky had any sense he'd bring the likes of Wright, Dawson & Stearman into the first team.... NOW to play with the decent experienced players we have. Its no use filling the team with experience just for the sake of it, it gets us nowhere, plus its horrible to sit through. 23467[/snapback] Young - heath, stewart, williams, gudjohnsen, benjamin, canero Old - keown, dabizas, dublin, makin, wilcox, pressman, blake, wlaker Inbetween - connolly, scowcroft, all played this season and that seems like a mix of ages to me!
Mark Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 Ok. Its a better mix than the previous two seasons. But the quality in them young players is missing. He hasnt brought any young players through since he's been here and until he starts doing it i wont be a fan of his again (Heath & Stewart was not down to him - both were Taylor) Canero never plays. And Benjamin wont be here next season thankfully. If we dont go up hows he going to afford any more younger players? He isnt, so it'll be another old brigade, no thanks.
Babylon Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 But the quality in them young players is missing. 23471[/snapback] Maybe it's missing from our youth setup also, just because they come through the ranks it doesn't mean they will be "quality" just look at Stewart!!!!
Mark Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 But the quality in them young players is missing. 23471[/snapback] Maybe it's missing from our youth setup also, just because they come through the ranks it doesn't mean they will be "quality" just look at Stewart!!!! 23472[/snapback] No shit, its not just me now though who is saying Stearman, Dawson have the quality to play now is it? People are finally realising , theres always a few like you though who will never drop it and insist on saying they are not good enough.
Scow Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 Dawson and Wright are certainly ready for the first team. I've seen these two in action for the reserves a few times now, and they would certainly be more effective than the likes of Gemmill and Blake.
Buzzell Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 I say bring in more youth now. Like Petrescu says, I dont like the idea of going up and Mickey signing all experienced players. We did that last time and didnt get anywhere in the Prem. This time lets try a new route, youth?? Some of the youth players have been doing brilliant in the outh ranks and reserves and also did well in pre season. Lets drop them in the 1st team and see what they can do.
Scow Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 I think alot of people assume that when Petrescu talks about drafting in youth, they think he means a whole side - It's only 2 or 3. 2 or 3 players that could make the difference alongside the more experienced members of the side. They provide energy, skill and committment - Can you say that for the likes of Gemmill and Blake? Reason why the likes of Forest and Derby have stuggled in recent seasons was because the majority of their sides were packed full of youth - You can see that with our reserves now because we're virtually playing the U18's team in those games. They key is to get a mix - Adams doesn't seem to know the meaning of the word.....
dhermon Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 if he can put stearman on the bench why not use him for the last 5-10 minutes slowly break him in so if somthing happens he has had time at least on the ground i see no point doing this with players like blake it has no purpose and lacks long term thinking say god forbid a player is hurt and misses next few games and he needs to start stearman he will have had under MA 0 minutes on the pitch and to me in my eyes that is wrong and until he adresses this i will never learn to like him i have grown very tired of the man
Anish Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 In my opinion one win over Gillingham will not make everything hunky-dory again. Like others have said, Micky's insistence on 'experience' over form and effort should not be dismissed. These youngsters need to be brought into the first team equation soon, because they deserve to AND because it will give all the academy and reserve players a huge lift. They will see that they have a chance to make the breakthrough at LCFC and it will encourage them to stay here rather than move elsewhere.
Cat Burger Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 Let's just see who he plays in the cup then.
Mark Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 Let's just see who he plays in the cup then. 23502[/snapback] Yes lets I remember a certain Crewe game two years ago, Stewart up front cause he darent bring a striker through even in the cup.
Babylon Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 But the quality in them young players is missing. 23471[/snapback] Maybe it's missing from our youth setup also, just because they come through the ranks it doesn't mean they will be "quality" just look at Stewart!!!! 23472[/snapback] No shit, its not just me now though who is saying Stearman, Dawson have the quality to play now is it? People are finally realising , theres always a few like you though who will never drop it and insist on saying they are not good enough. 23474[/snapback] Where have i said they are not good enough?? All i have ever done is be devils advocate and looked at things from the other point of view. If everyone jumped on the "they are good enough" bandwagon, this place would be pretty boring with no discussions and everyone just agreeing with each other. For the record I didn't want blake as Wright in my view deserved a chance. Before this season Dawson had not shown as much as he is now, IF his performances continue then he should at least make the bench instead of gemmil. As for stearman i believe next year is his year, one more year in the reserves and working with Martin Keown in training should have him ready for regular first team action. For now a place on the bench and hopefully a few appearances here and there will do him the world of good.
Hoof Fox Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 I have reservations about Micky and his tactics etc but on this one I feel he may need defending. IMO Micky may be afraid to bring in the youth at the expense of experience because of pressures from within the club ie the board, finances and also the ability to attract or hold onto the decent experienced players that we do possess. After what happened 2 seasons ago with administration the club to be fair are probably operating on a short term plan win promotion every other season to enable us to collect the TV revenue even if that means yo-yoing for the next 4-5 seasons this will enable us to collect parachute payments as well. I am afraid that this club is currently having to be operated on short term business plans and therefore Micky's job IMO is to get us promoted at the first time of asking - so can he really afford to take a chance. Sometimes we do need to look at the bigger picture this maybe one situation that Micky cannot change, and you cant blame him why should he take a chance on youth if it leads him to the sack, it is a risk he cannot afford to take and that my friends is more probably down to the clubs circumstances than MA hatred of the academy.
Babylon Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 He needs to bring through some of our own younger players, but after 3 years he STILL shows no intention of doing so.23461[/snapback] Lets look at the last 10 years, how many players who have come through the ranks have gone upwards ie.gone on to bigger and better things?? All i can think of is Heskey and Joachim, but lets face it Joachim as hardly been a roaring success since he left either. For every Heskey there 100 Sam Mcmahons, Paul Bedders, Stuart Wilsons, Stuart Campbells etc. All of whom were championed as the next big thing by the fans of the club, well where are they now??!! People slag off Adams left right and centre for not playing youth, when we already have two players from the youth team playing on a regular basis. I'm sure some of you will turn round now and say it was Taylor who gave them their first chance, thats true. But did Oneil give heskey his first chance? No he didn't, which means the best manager this club has ever had, managed to progress 0 youth players during his time in charge. Look back to Brian Little also, how many youth teamers got a decent chance under him. Joachim n maybe heskey (can't remember if it was little or mcghee who gave heskey his debut at Qpr.) Looking at he evidence we get 1 QUALITY youth teamer progress every 4 to 5 years, so why do people think we will all of a sudden have 4 players ready to step up and play?? We all want them to get a chance, BUT I can't help feeling people are building some of our youth up without that much justification. We are due our one quality player, whos it going to be?? My money is on Stearman without a doubt. As for Tommy Wright, i think he'll be another name to join the 100 others list.
Mark Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 Tommy Wright is better than you like to think. He just needs a run in the team which he isnt going to get. Along with him Richard Stearman and Stephen Dawson have tremendous potential, whether Micky will do anything about it is something else though. They are the 3 that are ready, there are many more coming through but theres no point typing a word more about them cause you know best. James Wesolowski.
Babylon Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 Tommy Wright is better than you like to think. He just needs a run in the team which he isnt going to get.Along with him Richard Stearman and Stephen Dawson have tremendous potential, whether Micky will do anything about it is something else though. They are the 3 that are ready, there are many more coming through but theres no point typing a word more about them cause you know best. James Wesolowski. 23518[/snapback] Of course I do. What i'm saying petrescu is this club has has long long history of not progressing youth players. It's not just been Micky Adams who hasn't played youth. I hope the new boys get their chance, but history is very much against them doing anything!! Players like Paul Bedder and Sam McMahon played brilliantly for the reserves but were not good enough to progress. Your only basing your views on reserve team games which can obviously be deseaving, like they were for Bedder et al.
Mark Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 Tommy Wright is better than you like to think. He just needs a run in the team which he isnt going to get.Along with him Richard Stearman and Stephen Dawson have tremendous potential, whether Micky will do anything about it is something else though. They are the 3 that are ready, there are many more coming through but theres no point typing a word more about them cause you know best. James Wesolowski. 23518[/snapback] Of course I do. What i'm saying petrescu is this club has has long long history of not progressing youth players. It's not just been Micky Adams who hasn't played youth. I hope the new boys get their chance, but history is very much against them doing anything!! Players like Paul Bedder and Sam McMahon played brilliantly for the reserves but were not good enough to progress. Your only basing your views on reserve team games which can obviously be deseaving, like they were for Bedder et al. 23521[/snapback] We have one of the best youth team in the country last season. You dont understand how much it improved with Alan Hill here. Now all that youth team has progressed into the reserves, some just need a chance and they could become a permanent first team player just like that - Dawson. If you saw him in the first team you'd be loving it, seeing a hard working player giving his all in the middle again. You'd be thinking, "i cant believe this looks like i was wrong for once he should of been given a go i can see it now" But will you see it? I dont think so with Mr Arrogance in charge. If a player plays well in the reserve team its simple, they get given a chance at the higher level. You dont keep ignoring them like Adams is doing. It works like this at every other club, why must we be an exception. Its unfair on all the hard work certain players are putting in week in week out, and to see shite like Gemmill and Blake be brought in to play ahead of them is the biggest kick in the teeth i can imagine.
Hullfox Posted 30 September 2004 Posted 30 September 2004 I have to say this thread is a great read. Can anyone say hand on heart that Mickey hasn't made it clear to these youngsters what they need to achieve to play? or when this is likely to be or where they fit in the plans? These discussions surely take place. I think that Gemmill will be on his bike soon so hopefully Mr Dawson may get a look in. Babylon makes a very good point about the youth players that never live up to the hype.
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