Swedging Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 When did they take a stance on something which wasn't remarkably similar to the club's stance? Organisations like this exist to take a stance and in the case of the Foxes Trust that should be to represent the views of the fans. I accept that this isn't always easy to gauge but the Foxes Trust just never seems to challenge the club on anything which the fans think is important. Just 2 examples are: 1 year strip cycle. Surely on this point at least the FT have made their position pretty clear - against it and said so at the time. I've even read them saying that probably half a dozen times on this board, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Hero Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 Yeah, they say it to us. What action has been taken/is being organised against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartonFox Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 When did they take a stance on something which wasn't remarkably similar to the club's stance? Organisations like this exist to take a stance and in the case of the Foxes Trust that should be to represent the views of the fans. I accept that this isn't always easy to gauge but the Foxes Trust just never seems to challenge the club on anything which the fans think is important. Just 2 examples are: 1 year strip cycle. Groundshare. Please keep the fans (lifeblood of this club) in the picture. Can we have a definitive answer on this? Why does it keep coming up? Are Tigers really interested? Are we? Considering the FT have a fairly significant shareholding, I think that they are giving the club an easy ride. An easy ride would be acceptable if this club hadn't been run so badly in previous years which has seen us slump from one catastrophe, embarrassment or slump to the next, with the current incumbents... well, I'm sure you get my point. But despite all those catastrophes and embarrassments the FT are very happy with the current incumbents. Do you know why? All those free junkets on a Saturday afternoon and being made privy to pointless info that the Club drip feeds them. If the FT had any gumption they would have called on the fans to boycott the 1-year kit cycle, but they couldn't do that TD would have got upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxes_Trust Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 But despite all those catastrophes and embarrassments the FT are very happy with the current incumbents. Do you know why? All those free junkets on a Saturday afternoon and being made privy to pointless info that the Club drip feeds them. If the FT had any gumption they would have called on the fans to boycott the 1-year kit cycle, but they couldn't do that TD would have got upset. Barton - we are fed up with reading this free junkets crap - those who go to the Directors Box are on a rota & have their own season tickets in other parts of the ground anyway, so the club doesn't lose out at all financially. We made our position perfectly clear on the one year kit deal & have done throughout directly to the club, in website stories, message board posts & Fox Fanzine articles. If we had called for a boycott we would have fans saying "The Trust ain't telling us what we can & can't do" so we are damned if we do & damned if we don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxes_Trust Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 no response from the foxes trust to this thread yet i see We have generally tried to aviod responding to this discussion, as it is the posters on here evaluation of us. We will be taking some of the points raised into our next Trust Board meeting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxes_Trust Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 When did they take a stance on something which wasn't remarkably similar to the club's stance? Organisations like this exist to take a stance and in the case of the Foxes Trust that should be to represent the views of the fans. I accept that this isn't always easy to gauge but the Foxes Trust just never seems to challenge the club on anything which the fans think is important. Just 2 examples are: 1 year strip cycle. Groundshare. Please keep the fans (lifeblood of this club) in the picture. Can we have a definitive answer on this? Why does it keep coming up? Are Tigers really interested? Are we? Considering the FT have a fairly significant shareholding, I think that they are giving the club an easy ride. An easy ride would be acceptable if this club hadn't been run so badly in previous years which has seen us slump from one catastrophe, embarrassment or slump to the next, with the current incumbents... well, I'm sure you get my point. We have already responded re the one year kit. We can't believe you don't know our opposition to the one year cycle. Groundshare - we consulted our members over this issue when it was a live situation. Our members were split on the issue and slightly more were in favour than against. - The issue has appeared again because a Merc journalist asked the new chairman his opinion & from a financial viewpoint it stacked up at that time. There is no certainty the same deal would be on the table again if it became live again, very much would depend on the Tigers arrangements for Welford Road going tits up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Fynwy Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 My biggest problem with the Trust (or any trust at a League club) is that City is a Professional Football Club and should be run as a business not a charity. If a professional football club cannot be run as a business it should not be in the football league, there are plenty of opportunities for community football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxes_Trust Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 My biggest problem with the Trust (or any trust at a League club) is that City is a Professional Football Club and should be run as a business not a charity. If a professional football club cannot be run as a business it should not be in the football league, there are plenty of opportunities for community football. Just to make it clear The Foxes Trust has no ambition to run the club itself & we would agree with the early post that a Trust model is not so suited for the Premiership, but is a good structure for running clubs in the lower divisions. Our aims are based on having a strong influence & a representative on the board, not running the entire club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartonFox Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 Barton - we are fed up with reading this free junkets crap - those who go to the Directors Box are on a rota & have their own season tickets in other parts of the ground anyway, so the club doesn't lose out at all financially. We made our position perfectly clear on the one year kit deal & have done throughout directly to the club, in website stories, message board posts & Fox Fanzine articles. If we had called for a boycott we would have fans saying "The Trust ain't telling us what we can & can't do" so we are damned if we do & damned if we don't. Oh please, what a pathetic stand point that is. FT - "Mr Davies we are unhappy at the one year kit cycle." TD - "So what, what are you going to do about it." FT - "Ermmm, well.........." TD - "If you still want to be in the outer circle you'll do as I say." FT - "Very well, but we aren't happy, what shall we tell our members?" TD - "Who gives a ****, they are not important and just you remember that." FT - "Yes Mr Davies, sorry Mr Davies." We're damned if we do - that's the thing you don't do anything. You couldn't have missed the uproar regarding the kit issue and the fans, like me, are waiting to see something that makes them think the FT is worthwhile. Had you the backbone to stand up and call for a boycott you'd have got it and support in big numbers. The Club would have seen you meant business and maybe started taking you seriously, and if they hadn't then the fans would have known what a few of us know already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 My biggest problem with the Trust (or any trust at a League club) is that City is a Professional Football Club and should be run as a business not a charity. If a professional football club cannot be run as a business it should not be in the football league, there are plenty of opportunities for community football. All businesses have stakeholders. A succesful company is run in the interests of not just the owners, but the suppliers, customers (fans), lenders, sponsors, staff and the community at large. So to run the club as a business doesn't preclude the Trust investing and representing the fans. It's common in Japan for customers and suppliers to have shares in each other, and also the banks. It works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Fynwy Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 All businesses have stakeholders. A succesful company is run in the interests of not just the owners, but the suppliers, customers (fans), lenders, sponsors, staff and the community at large. So to run the club as a business doesn't preclude the Trust investing and representing the fans. It's common in Japan for customers and suppliers to have shares in each other, and also the banks. It works. I work for a Japanese company, their economy has been in the doldrums since 1990, it doesn't work! Lets not get onto macro economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreal Madrid Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 Worst season in 15 years , bring back Martin George! he had done nothing wrong but chose some very good mananger s in the time! he was CE! little ...MON etc![/i][/color] I'm sure if Mr George wanted to come back in a boardroom position he could, and I believe he is a current shareholder, which implies he is not unhappy how the club is being run. I do believe he is a director at Grimsby 'tho, so he would have to resign that position first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreal Madrid Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 We're damned if we do - that's the thing you don't do anything. You couldn't have missed the uproar regarding the kit issue and the fans, like me, are waiting to see something that makes them think the FT is worthwhile. Had you the backbone to stand up and call for a boycott you'd have got it and support in big numbers. The Club would have seen you meant business and maybe started taking you seriously, and if they hadn't then the fans would have known what a few of us know already. Erm, uproar at the kit issue? The circles I move in ( virtually all home & away games ) this issue is very rarely mentioned. There is a very simple answer, if you disagree with the kit issue, don't buy it, no one is forcing you to. I think the club would agree that with hindsight a mistake was made in this regard, and when this contract is through it is unlikely to be repeated. To be fair to them, they were trying to maximise income, and I would have thought that is what any responsible management should do. Once again, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and I don't think that there is anyone out there that has not made a mistake in their professional or personal lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartonFox Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 Erm, uproar at the kit issue? The circles I move in ( virtually all home & away games ) this issue is very rarely mentioned. There is a very simple answer, if you disagree with the kit issue, don't buy it, no one is forcing you to. I think the club would agree that with hindsight a mistake was made in this regard, and when this contract is through it is unlikely to be repeated. To be fair to them, they were trying to maximise income, and I would have thought that is what any responsible management should do. Once again, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and I don't think that there is anyone out there that has not made a mistake in their professional or personal lives. Hindsight? It basic common sense, something that is clearly lacking in the Club at this moment in time. Everyone makes mistakes, even me , but our administration make repeated gaffs and yet they are allowed to bob happily along taking the Club to the brink of disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreal Madrid Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 Hindsight? It basic common sense, something that is clearly lacking in the Club at this moment in time. Everyone makes mistakes, even me , but our administration make repeated gaffs and yet they are allowed to bob happily along taking the Club to the brink of disaster. Does not having a one year cycle make basic common sense? I wouldn't know, not working in the fashion/clothing industry. Obviously at the time the club thought it would maximise revenues. Do you work in the fashion/clothing industry, so you could have brought your influence to bear as a former member of the Foxes Trust, or are you using the benefit of hindsight now? It seems to me you feel you have all the answers and the club/FT none. It's just a shame that you can only criticise, how about some positive ideas the FT could take to the board ( and not just dreamy generalisations such as kidnap a rich multimillionaire until he/she signs a big fat cheque over, sack the board, or "maximise revenues"). I'm sure all serious suggestions would be most welcome, because at heart we all want one thing, and that is success for Leicester City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 Is SurrealMadrid - the same person as the FT representative?? Writing stlye is similar and they have the same viewpoints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreal Madrid Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 Is SurrealMadrid - the same person as the FT representative?? Writing stlye is similar and they have the same viewpoints In a word no, although i'm only speaking for myself! I have to declare that I am a member of the FT, although I have no involvement with them other than sending them a tenner every year, I would like to get involved, but as I live and work in Essex it's not possible. My time is taken up a lot travelling to the Walkers and away games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 I work for a Japanese company, their economy has been in the doldrums since 1990, it doesn't work! Lets not get onto macro economics. Japan is on the up now. You also have to remember they fell a long way, Japan was briefly the biggest economy in the World, and they have done well to get to where they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez of Mahrez Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 It seems to me the main problem the Foxes Trust has is that, like it or not, its image is one of being very closely aligned with the club itself. The supporters' main contact with members of the Trust elite seems to be on messageboards such as this one and the Fox Fanzine forum. Which means all of the frustrations with the club are instead fired at the Trust representatives who post on forums, because there seems to be no-one directly accountable at the club on a day-to-day basis who is willing to answer difficult questions in quite the same way as you can quite easily sit at a PC for half an hour typing a diatribe to the FT. To put across a truly representative image, it'd be nice to hear once and for all that transcripts of discussions/arguments people have with FT representatives on messageboards are passed on to the club and some sort of reply made public.... perhaps, shock of all shocks, on the club's official website - would make a change from the usual we-are-in-this-together propaganda (sorry, strong word but I can't think of any better). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 maybe the trust could do with barton fox becoming a member , i am a member of the trust (another who just sends a tenner each year) and think it would be fantastic to get his points across in the way he has on these boards . maybe just maybe his take no s hit attitude could help the trust/ club move forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox in a Box Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 I'm sure if Mr George wanted to come back in a boardroom position he could, and I believe he is a current shareholder, which implies he is not unhappy how the club is being run. I do believe he is a director at Grimsby 'tho, so he would have to resign that position first. John Elsom get your facts right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreal Madrid Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 It seems to me the main problem the Foxes Trust has is that, like it or not, its image is one of being very closely aligned with the club itself. The supporters' main contact with members of the Trust elite seems to be on messageboards such as this one and the Fox Fanzine forum. Which means all of the frustrations with the club are instead fired at the Trust representatives who post on forums, because there seems to be no-one directly accountable at the club on a day-to-day basis who is willing to answer difficult questions in quite the same way as you can quite easily sit at a PC for half an hour typing a diatribe to the FT. It's the great conundrum, to be honest. All football clubs who are in the higher echelons, and those who aspire to be there are being run as businesses first and foremost, and this is not helped by the huge amounts of money sloshing around the top part of the game, and even in the position we are in. I dread to think how our wage bill stands as a proportion of our turnover as compared to the days when we nearly got relegated to the then third division ( showing my age now! ). Because of this clubs, in the main, are getting more removed from the fan base, but in all honesty there never was a golden age when fans could get points over to the boards - you just turned up, stood on the terrace and went home, end of. The FT are not perfect by any means, but at least they provide a conduit to put points over to the board. However, the board can totally ignore what is said, but it was ever thus. Another point I would like to make is that the "fans" do not all have the same thoughts, ideas and objectives that they would like the board to consider, and to say otherwise is patronising in the extreme. There may even be fans who are happy with the one year kit cycle, for instance, so even when the FT put points to the board, the FT cannot in all truthfulness say they are speaking for all the fans. Sorry about the length of this post, but I suppose in a nutshell I'm trying to say it ain't easy for the board, FT, other supporters' organisations, posters on forums or any other Tom Dick or Harry to effectively communicate together, let alone agree on anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreal Madrid Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 John Elsom get your facts right! Sorry! :blush:However, there is nothing to stop Mr George coming forward and flashing the cash. Sorry, also in my edit I've buggered up the blush -us oldies can't get a handle on this technology schtik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxes_Trust Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 QUOTE(Surreal Madrid @ May 17 2006, 02:48 PM) Erm, uproar at the kit issue? The circles I move in ( virtually all home & away games ) this issue is very rarely mentioned. There is a very simple answer, if you disagree with the kit issue, don't buy it, no one is forcing you to. I think the club would agree that with hindsight a mistake was made in this regard, and when this contract is through it is unlikely to be repeated. To be fair to them, they were trying to maximise income, and I would have thought that is what any responsible management should do. Once again, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and I don't think that there is anyone out there that has not made a mistake in their professional or personal lives. Hindsight? It basic common sense, something that is clearly lacking in the Club at this moment in time. Everyone makes mistakes, even me , but our administration make repeated gaffs and yet they are allowed to bob happily along taking the Club to the brink of disaster. While everybody does make mistakes & those who don't do nothing, we have to agree with Barton that the outcome in lack of sales was predictable & was exactly what we said to the club once aware of the one year cycle. The club isn't on the brink of disaster, we see enough information to know this is Barton scaremongering once again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxes_Trust Posted 17 May 2006 Share Posted 17 May 2006 Oh please, what a pathetic stand point that is. FT - "Mr Davies we are unhappy at the one year kit cycle." TD - "So what, what are you going to do about it." FT - "Ermmm, well.........." TD - "If you still want to be in the outer circle you'll do as I say." FT - "Very well, but we aren't happy, what shall we tell our members?" TD - "Who gives a ****, they are not important and just you remember that." FT - "Yes Mr Davies, sorry Mr Davies." More bollocks from Barton, our conversation was nothing like that & has been ongoing criticism since we first became aware, along with a clear warning that sales would significantly suffer. The club have acknowlegded it was a wrong decision now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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