Calm Down

[Bert]

And another thing is - if people know how "mediocre" we are why do they expect us to win everything?

[bigneville]

I hope you've got a hard hat

I know what your saying, but i've been listening to both sides of the play youth over not playing youth. Even though some of your view's are extreme Thrcian, i see a good core to the point.

[Thracian]

I wouldn't say he's right, Sheehan should be in the team considering we've no one reliable at left back. That's if he isn't demoralised after not being considered since his sending off last season.

The key to bringing our youngsters through to the first team is for the tactics to be the same way from academy level, to reserve level, to first team level. So then when a youngster does get the chance to make the step up he will fit in much more easily. Southampton haven't complicated things, their youngsters know they'll get a chance when ready and have had success out of it.

Is this the case at Leicester? I wouldn't say so, do we like to make things complicated or something, I just don't understand some things that go on at our club.

Thracian, if someone like Levi Porter got the chance in the first team, do you think he'd have the same sort of impact as he has done in the games you've seen him in? I don't think he would, and not because he lacks the ability, but because he'll be told to do a different job to the one he's used to. Under Rob Kelly it would be to help the team being hard to beat as most important task. Weso and O'Grady haven't had a problem making the step up because they suit our style of play, but Sheehan and the likes of Porter and Gradel will have more of a problem because our team is set out in such a negative way these players would be held back from using their main attributes. In my opinion :pinch:

I couldn't agree more with all that. Indeed with Porter it showed against Sociedad. When Porter came on I imagined he'd go into centre-midfield and try to orchestrate our attacks which he can be so good at. Instead they played him wide, barely gave him the sniff of a pass and totally wasted an opportunity to let him play where he's best suited.

Furthermore Kelly knew that. Porter is a reasonable winger but he just doesn't have the pace for that job at senior level. His strength is his control, his ability to change direction, his weighting of a clever pass and his wonderful support of colleagues. For all that he needs to be in midfield.

Gradel is a parallel to Ryan Smith. If they use him solely as an attacking winger he could do well because he is positive in capital letters. If they send him back on defensive duties he'll be a waste of space.

Sheehan is no finished defender. But he can read the game, he does defend but there is no-one in the club who links defence and attack like he does, not even Stearman. Because of my slight concerns defensively, I'd play him with Tiatto not because I want to but because it seems best balanced with us lacking a left-sided midfielder.

[Babylon]

Maybe not all at once. But i'd like to see them given a go...

I would think that's how everyone feels, but there are ways to go about things. No one would argue with them getting a chance, what gets peoples backs up is the way Thracian seems to think it would answer all our problems to chuck in a load of kids.

In our team when fit we will have Fryatt, Stearman, Wesolowski and O'grady pushing for a starting place all 20 or under. We also have Hume, Hughes, McCarthy and probably a few others under 23. The way people go on you would think we had a squad of OAPs.

[Thracian]

What Thracian thinks is that it's not going to solve any of our problems to persist with the status quo.

And, given we've no money, it is hard to see where else our problems at right wing, left-back and creative midfield are going to be solved.

If you have solutions Babylon I respect you quite enough to listen.

[Ultra]

I would think that's how everyone feels, but there are ways to go about things. No one would argue with them getting a chance, what gets peoples backs up is the way Thracian seems to think it would answer all our problems to chuck in a load of kids.

In our team when fit we will have Fryatt, Stearman, Wesolowski and O'Grady pushing for a starting place all 20 or under. We also have Hume, Hughes, McCarthy and probably a few others under 23. The way people go on you would think we had a squad of OAPs.

Indeed. The Adams era is over. Young players can and do push for a place in the starting 11.

There has to be a balance though. In a a league as competitive as this one there will be times when experienced heads are required.

[Ultra]

I couldn't agree more with all that. Indeed with Porter it showed against Sociedad. When Porter came on I imagined he'd go into centre-midfield and try to orchestrate our attacks which he can be so good at. Instead they played him wide, barely gave him the sniff of a pass and totally wasted an opportunity to let him play where he's best suited.

Furthermore Kelly knew that. Porter is a reasonable winger but he just doesn't have the pace for that job at senior level. His strength is his control, his ability to change direction, his weighting of a clever pass and his wonderful support of colleagues. For all that he needs to be in midfield.

Gradel is a parallel to Ryan Smith. If they use him solely as an attacking winger he could do well because he is positive in capital letters. If they send him back on defensive duties he'll be a waste of space.

Sheehan is no finished defender. But he can read the game, he does defend but there is no-one in the club who links defence and attack like he does, not even Stearman. Because of my slight concerns defensively, I'd play him with Tiatto not because I want to but because it seems best balanced with us lacking a left-sided midfielder.

If Sheehan needs Tiatto to act as a minder, I would suggest he is a luxury we cannot afford.

Especially as both are of less than perfect temperament...

[Thracian]

But Stearman having Maybury as a minder for months, no problem. You really are so contradictory and illogical.

I suggested Tiatto might cover for Sheehan because the latter is a genuine attacking full-back, Tiatto is perfectly capable in that position and therefore it makes sense. Prudent is the word I believe.

It is the only way forward on the left flank because, otherwise, for reasons beyond me, we have no natural left-sidedd footballers at all.

Now if you've got a better idea by all means voice it. But don't take the piss out of people who really do want to see City solve their problems and lift themselves out of the doldrums.

Half the time I believe you oppose everything I say because I don't go along with your principle attitude over Israel that the Muslims are always right and would rather dialogue find a solution that hearing ever morning that yet more lives have been needlessly lost.

Well I don't think so pettily. If you come up with some good ideas I'll support em but continueing as we are seems ridiculous and I also get soddin annoyed that every time the kids are mentioned you belittle them.

Unlike almost anyone else in our club colours, at least they have won things recently like Cup finals, runner-up spots, Youth International honours. They don't deserve your mockery or your disrespect.

Just out of interest how many times have you ever bothered to watch them?

[Ultra]

But Stearman having Maybury as a minder for months, no problem. You really are so contradictory and illogical.

The Maybury/Stearman combination produced results. It was a factor in us picking up 28 points from the last 16 games. Whether the Sheehan/Tiatto partnership would work so well is pure conjecture on your part, but I disagree.

I suggested Tiatto might cover for Sheehan because the latter is a genuine attacking full-back, Tiatto is perfectly capable in that position and therefore it makes sense. Prudent is the word I believe.

A lot of us who were there on Saturday (and plenty who weren't, as we've seen on here) question whether Tiatto is perfectly capable in ANY position except the stand. You yourself have recently questioned what he's brought to the side.

It is the only way forward on the left flank because, otherwise, for reasons beyond me, we have no natural left-sided footballers at all.

Possibly because the ones we had previously (Wilcox, Gilbert, Hamill) were deemed not up to the mark, or were out of our price range (like Andy Welsh). It is a weakness I'm sure Kelly is aware of, but maybe doesn't have the resources to deal with in a way he might wish.

Now if you've got a better idea by all means voice it. But don't take the piss out of people who really do want to see City solve their problems and lift themselves out of the doldrums.

I don't doubt your sincerity at all. Most regular users are familiar with your preferred "solutions" to our problems. But on occasion, posters perceived to be, shall we say, "over-dogmatic" can attract not only criticism, but ridicule. I've been on the end of it myself over the years. Don't take it to heart - it's only a message board after all. Players and managers go through far worse, as we may see tomorrow night.

Half the time I believe you oppose everything I say because I don't go along with your principle attitude over Israel that the Muslims are always right and would rather dialogue find a solution that hearing ever morning that yet more lives have been needlessly lost.

I know you and I have crossed swords on the issue of Islam before. But as far as the Israel thread is concerned. I find that allies on there can be opponents on other issues, and vice versa. On a board as diverse as this one is (one of its greatest strengths), that's no bad thing. If you think I voice an opinion with the sole intention of winding you up, you're wrong.

Well I don't think so pettily. If you come up with some good ideas I'll support em but continueing as we are seems ridiculous and I also get soddin annoyed that every time the kids are mentioned you belittle them.

I don't really know that much about the kids, but there are a number of sources (apart from yourself) who have seen them and are slightly more circumspect about their suitability for first-team football at the present time. I saw Alan Sheehan's debut at Plymouth in 2005 and was impressed, but for whatever reason he didn't make the progress that had been hoped of him last season. He was also over-hyped in a way which did neither him nor his proponents any credit. I'd have hoped that those concenrned would have learnt from that episode, but it appears not so.

Unlike almost anyone else in our club colours, at least they have won things recently like Cup finals, runner-up spots, Youth International honours. They don't deserve your mockery or your disrespect.

That's a fairly regular occurence at youth and reserve team level, but doesn't necesarily prove they'll be successful at senior level. Rob Kelly himself is an example of that. He may be legitimately criticised for errors during his stewardship of the club, but he doesn't deserve "mockery" or "disrespect" either..

Just out of interest how many times have you ever bothered to watch them?

I've seen enough of this and previous youth/reserve teams to form realistic judgements about players' abilities. When the side has a decent run in the FA Youth Cup (generally accepted as the yardstick of youth development), then I and others may start to take them as seriously as you do.

[Ultra]

I note that despite nearly 50 posts today Thracian has chosen to completely ignore the points I made above.

Is he being deliberately ignorant? I couldn't possibly comment..

[Thracian]

I note that despite nearly 50 posts today Thracian has chosen to completely ignore the points I made above.

Is he being deliberately ignorant? I couldn't possibly comment..

No I'm not being deliberately ignorant. I've been playing football with my little grandson and he won - again - so

I've now had firm indication that my attacking philosphy is shit and he's promised I'll have further proof tomorrow!

To the points you mentioned:

1. Maybury/Stearman: Not convincing. Solid enough defensively but the forward product has diminished over time and Stearman is probably as much at fault as Maybury.

2. Tiatto/Sheehan: Tiatto's been signed for whatever reason and the only job he might do is with Sheehan on the left. No, I'm no more certain it will work for either player than anyone else is but seeing we have no threat down the left right now I think it's worth a try and might add to our attacking capability. If not, we've learned something but it has to be given a chance, not just one game.

3. Left-side weakness: Kelly must generate his own resources. Tiatto/Sheehan is an idea but otherwise he has to buy acquire a reliable left-sided player or alter his system.

4. Water under the bridge.

5. I accept what you say and I'm pleased to hear it.

6. Sheehan has not been skillfully handled and, as I said last season, the sooner he leaves the better. He needs a new start with someone who's able to get the best out of him which hasn't been the case at Leicester these last eight months. Hopefully lessons will be learned so that Porter and Dodds do come through but learning lessons never seems a strong point at City. I don't think the fans are very supportive of youngsters either in general and partly because so few ever see them play, less than a 12th of our first team crowd is the norm.

7. That may be right but winning can be a habit. As for Kelly, at the moment I'm not his biggest fan. I would never be a big fan of a manager who continually plays in such a dour and unimaginative way. I did, however, hope he would change but he hasn't. He was dogmatic about Ryan Smith's departure and that didn't impress either, especially after his debut for Derby (and despite the lad's mistake).

8. How Leicester contrived to lose in the Youth Cup I don't know but it didn't help that Chambers was only half fit and short of match practice. But they sure made up for that blip later and were unbeaten for weeks against decent Premiership youth teams etc.