Super Cool Really Fat Drivers club.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Quietly!

One alternative would be to restrict HGV's to a slower speed in heavy rain which would result in far less spray or even have lane restrictions because there's not much delivered when a motorway is closed by accidents partly caused by excessive spray and by truckies who too often show precious little inclination to slow down or show consideration to other road users in such conditions.

And again on the subject of trucks they more than anyone else should be persuaded to leave proper space between themselves and the vehicle in front. Times you see great lines of them nose to tail and there's no need for it.

I'm sure half the time it's just done to cut wind resistance and save fuel but it's a risky way of saving money.

HGV's tend to go that bit slower anyway - not often you see them breaking 100 in the outside lane is it! (i know there not allowed in there.)

HGV drivers in the most are highley skilled drivers - so why they should be deemed a 'danger' in the wet i don't know. Yes they cause spray, but so do normal cars, and as you say, you drive to the conditions.

I would argue that 'trucks causing spray in wet conditions' wouldn't be the main cause of accidents - far from it.

[Thracian]

HGV's tend to go that bit slower anyway - not often you see them breaking 100 in the outside lane is it! (i know there not allowed in there.)

HGV drivers in the most are highley skilled drivers - so why they should be deemed a 'danger' in the wet i don't know. Yes they cause spray, but so do normal cars, and as you say, you drive to the conditions.

I would argue that 'trucks causing spray in wet conditions' wouldn't be the main cause of accidents - far from it.

I'd love to see some figures if they exist because there have been many occasions when I've felt the spray from lorries has been a serious problem for traffic, even accepting that motorists contribute to the dangers by not backing off and you really cannot compare the spray from a car to that of an artic.

As for the skills of HGV drivers there are so many now that it's hard to judge them collectively. Their test is difficult enough so their ability to drive shouldn't be in question.

But there are problems. Attitude is one thing. Some clearly think that being full-time professionals, trucks are the most important vehicles on the road and no-one else should be considered.

They are reluctant to lose their revs for any reason so will move out into the centre lane to overtake irrespective of who they cut up, often taking an age to overtake when they've done so.

They drive nose to tail on the inside as I've mentioned and, even with the "rest" legislation there are instances galore of trucks veering all over the place presumably because of tiredness and particularly in the early hours of the morning.

Left-hand drive vehicles are less safe too in this country and have been the cause of many accidents I've read about and, for all lorry drivers' skill, it is by no means unusual to see the aftermath of a jacknife caused by a truck being too close to an obstruction to control his vehicle or because the driver's been forced to skid, perhaps by an errant motorist, in wet conditions.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

I'd love to see some figures if they exist because there have been many occasions when I've felt the spray from lorries has been a serious problem for traffic, even accepting that motorists contribute to the dangers by not backing off and you really cannot compare the spray from a car to that of an artic.

You asked!

Table 4a: Accidents and vehicles included in analysis1: GB 2006

Category

Number included

in analysis1

Total number in

2006

Per cent included

in analysis1

Accidents

Accident severity

Fatal 2,703 2 ,926 92

Serious 22,111 2 4,946 89

Slight 120,984 1 61,289 75

Road type

Motorw ays 7,489 8 ,379 89

A roads 66,371 8 4,050 79

B roads 18,552 2 3,826 78

Other Roads2 53,386 7 2,906 73

Accidents included in analysis 145,798 1 89,161 77

Category

Number included

in analysis1

Total number in

2006

Per cent included

in analysis1

Vehicles

Vehicle type

Pedal cycles 10,749 1 6,611 65

Motorcycles 20,249 2 4,323 83

Cars 208,284 2 67,991 78

Buses or coaches 5,698 9 ,133 62

Light goods vehicles 12,296 1 5,593 79

Heavy goods vehicles 9,720 11,336 86

Other vehicles 2,316 3 ,072 75

Vehicles included in analysis3 269,312 3 48,059 77

1 Includes accidents and vehicles involved in accidents w here a police off icer

attended the scene and in w hich a contributory factor w as reported.

2 Other roads includes C roads and unclassif ied roads.

3 Includes other vehicles types and cases w here the vehicle type w as not reported.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

department of transport statistics - RTA Report 2006

That didn't come out to well - but if you take time to read if thracian i think you should agree that maybe your stance is in fact incorrect as it's clear that most accidents involve cars and are down to:

Drink Driving

Failure to look

Inappropiate speed for the conditions

Page 41 of the report (43 on the thing on the left hand side) onwards is the main bit of interest surrounding this discussion.

[Thracian]

department of transport statistics - RTA Report 2006

That didn't come out to well - but if you take time to read if thracian i think you should agree that maybe your stance is in fact incorrect as it's clear that most accidents involve cars and are down to:

Drink Driving

Failure to look

Inappropiate speed for the conditions

Page 41 of the report (43 on the thing on the left hand side) onwards is the main bit of interest surrounding this discussion.

Fascinating and a lot to take in but I must have read the factors differently to you because in table 4f it shows that alcohol is a contributory factor in a mere 5% of accidents overall (11th out of 14 factors listed) and way behind failing to look (35% and 1st), poor judgement of other people's speed (18%), being reckless or hurrying (18%) and losing control (15%).

It was interesting too that slippery roads (9%) and driving too close (7%) contributed a further 16% in total and driving too fast for the conditions (11%).

In table 4b dealing with the severity of injuries 28% (1st) of fatal accidents had behaviour or inexperience as a factor, 16% (2nd) had careless/ reckless or hurrying and 10% (3rd) vision affected (presumably sun, spray etc).

Table 4b shows that road environment was the main contributory factor (14%).

Seems to me that my call for greater education and a more extensive/staged driving test should be a major thrust in any future action to cut road deaths with the massive 35% for failing to look and losing control (l5%) contributed to 50% of accidents.

And if up to 10% are caused by vision impairment like spray then that should also be looked at considering the relatively low percentage of the time when the sun is near the horizon and when rain is falling to produce spray from vehicles.

I'm not convinced that any of the information given indicates that minor examples of speeding contribute significantly to accident because the speed section really focuses on carelessness and recklessness which do seem to be relevent.

It is difficult to know what the hurrying refers to but it may well be a third or less of the overall aggression factor (ie 6%) by which that entire category was factored in.

But the main point overall is glaring.

A compelling 84% of accidents are down not to speeding or alcohol but to human misjudgements like failing to look, loss of control, poor judgement of oncomers speed (18%) slippery roads (9%) and driving too close (7%) and all those things surely need to be addressed through better training, more thorough staged testing and awareness education.

It proves to me that significant numbers of licensed drivers aren't safe behind a wheel however fast or slow they drive.

Cos it really is a job to legislate for failing to look, driving too close, not being able to control a skid, not being able to judge oncoming speed or failing to have the common sense to err on the side of caution.

And sadly you see examples of these things constantly. Indeed, on the failing to look I'm not even convinced that some people are fit enough to turn and look in their blind spot.

I'd even suggest that some people drive in the middle lane simply to avoid having to look in their blind spot before changing lanes or to avoid any other decisions that end in a lane change.

[The People's Hero]

None of that spin can disguise the fact that you feel that drink drivers are victims?

[AoWW]

Oh, for fuck's sake - do we have to go over all this again.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Fascinating and a lot to take in but I must have read the factors differently to you because in table 4f it shows that alcohol is a contributory factor in a mere 5% of accidents overall .

But estimated to be a factor in 17% of fatal accidents

[Narborough Bod]

I went on the course and found it quite good. After years of going to fast I got caught - MY FAULT.

Do you know what I do now, it's radical, prevents speeding and I bet no one has ever thought of it before......I set off earlier.

Can the thread be closed now please.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

table 4b shows that road environment was the main contributory factor (14%).

it doesn't - it just happens to be at the top - injudicious action is higher at 27% for one

[Benji]

I saw the word lorries and thought i'd add a little annoyance I have:

WHY THE FECK DO THEY OVERTAKE EACH OTHER ON A 3 LANE MOTORWAY!!!!

They literally overtake at a 1mph faster speed than the one on the inside, taking a whole fecking junction to fully overtake. Sometimes you just cannot get into the outside lane and they piss you off for miles. ******.

[Guest]

I saw the word lorries and thought i'd add a little annoyance I have:

WHY THE FECK DO THEY OVERTAKE EACH OTHER ON A 3 LANE MOTORWAY!!!!

They literally overtake at a 1mph faster speed than the one on the inside, taking a whole fecking junction to fully overtake. Sometimes you just cannot get into the outside lane and they piss you off for miles. ******.

I would limit them to using the inside lane only. Seriously.

[Zingari]

I would limit them to using the inside lane only. Seriously.

yes along with female drivers and the over 70's

[Guest]

yes along with female drivers and the over 70's

Not all women drivers are bad. Just like not all men drivers are good.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

I would limit them to using the inside lane only. Seriously.

But they couldn't overtake - they'd just be stuck - some lorries are slower than others - why not just have 4 lane motorways - that way the middle laners can battler over two lanes!

[stez]

I saw the word lorries and thought i'd add a little annoyance I have:

WHY THE FECK DO THEY OVERTAKE EACH OTHER ON A 3 LANE MOTORWAY!!!!

They literally overtake at a 1mph faster speed than the one on the inside, taking a whole fecking junction to fully overtake. Sometimes you just cannot get into the outside lane and they piss you off for miles. ******.

it's even better on the two lane A1 where they enjoy 'overtaking' up hill. ******!

[Guest]

But they couldn't overtake - they'd just be stuck - some lorries are slower than others - why not just have 4 lane motorways - that way the middle laners can battler over two lanes!

It's not really practical to have 4 lane motorways, and honestly, the ones we have move a lot better when lorries are restricted to one lane. They did it on the M1 once in Nottinghamshire/Derbyshire whilst roadworks were taking place, and the difference was amazing.

[andyh1884]

It's not really practical to have 4 lane motorways, and honestly, the ones we have move a lot better when lorries are restricted to one lane. They did it on the M1 once in Nottinghamshire/Derbyshire whilst roadworks were taking place, and the difference was amazing.

They have it on the M42 between Tamworth & Measham - lorries over 7.5tonnes are restricted to the inside lane for 3 miles between junctions 10 & 11. I travel that way every day during the week & every day there is at least one that decides this restriction doesn't apply to them.

[Guest]

They have it on the M42 between Tamworth & Measham - lorries over 7.5tonnes are restricted to the inside lane for 3 miles between junctions 10 & 11. I travel that way every day during the week & every day there is at least one that decides this restriction doesn't apply to them.

You always get one, whatever the restriction is, whether it's motoring, smoking, whatever.