Where do we draw the line?

[Guest]

Teen goes against her own mother's wishes, and ignores guidelines, shock horror.

What gets me is that the mother says, on the one hand, it's the daughter's fault, then on the other starts putting the responsibility on everyone but the daughter. I would have thought that at 14, if my parents had forbidden me to do something, then I ignored the signs telling me not to do something, and if I went ahead and did it, the last thing I would have wanted was my picture in the papers and on TV. I would feel like a right mupppet!

Teens have always done what they are not supposed to do (see the 13yr old daddy thread, for one). But isn't making mistakes part of the learning process of life?

[Zingari]

i find it hard to believe that it is within the law to have unsupervised tanning beds

its like having self service alcohol or cigarette machines and expect minors not to use them ,

surely if it's a requirement to have an age limit for use they should be supervised

[Guest]

i find it hard to believe that it is within the law to have unsupervised tanning beds

its like having self service alcohol or cigarette machines and expect minors not to use them ,

surely if it's a requirement to have an age limit for use they should be supervised

There is no law in the first place. But why should there be? Shouldn't people be using common sense, or is this slowly being phased out of the gene pool?

My gym has rules saying that children aren't allowed in certain areas, but parents are quite happy to let their kids play about in them. One day, some child is going to have an accident, and I can guarantee the day it does, the parents will be blaming the gym staff for not supervising their children.

[Zingari]

There is no law in the first place. But why should there be? Shouldn't people be using common sense, or is this slowly being phased out of the gene pool?

My gym has rules saying that children aren't allowed in certain areas, but parents are quite happy to let their kids play about in them. One day, some child is going to have an accident, and I can guarantee the day it does, the parents will be blaming the gym staff for not supervising their children.

ok i agree, but there was once no law against cigarette vending machines on the streets , wasn't it stupid to expect them not to be abused by under age smokers .

the fact that they are under age means that they don't have the awareness of long term dangers as adults.

yes , both the girl and her parents are partly responsible too, but i don't think the salon can be altogether blameless.

anyway , she didn't even have the sense to undo her bra , to get her back tanned

[Guest]

ok i agree, but there was once no law against cigarette vending machines on the streets , wasn't it stupid to expect them not to be abused by under age smokers .

the fact that they are under age means that they don't have the awareness of long term dangers as adults.

yes , both they and their parents are partly responsible too, but i don't think the salon can be altogether blameless

But there are laws against buying cigarettes and alcohol already in place, but it doesn't stop teens from drinking and smoking, does it. There are laws prohibiting sex before the age of 16, but younger kids are still getting pregnant. You can put whatever rules you like in place, but you aren't going to stop the problem of teens doing what they are not supposed to do.

I would have thought that a 14yr old would have been aware of the dangers of sunbeds. It's not like they haven't been publicised before. If you see or read any of the interviews with the mother and daughter, they are not stupid people. Plus the mother had already forbidden the daughter from going to the salon. Would this not be the perfect opportunity to why, if there were any doubts as to the daughter's understanding?

I am getting pretty sick of this blame culture. Why can't people accept responsibility for their own mistakes, instead of looking for someone else to blame all of the time? Is it the hope that they may get compo out of it?

One other question that I have is why is it ok for a 16yr old to use a sunbed, but not a child aged 15yrs and 364 days?

[Zingari]

But there are laws against buying cigarettes and alcohol already in place, but it doesn't stop teens from drinking and smoking, does it. There are laws prohibiting sex before the age of 16, but younger kids are still getting pregnant. You can put whatever rules you like in place, but you aren't going to stop the problem of teens doing what they are not supposed to do.

I would have thought that a 14yr old would have been aware of the dangers of sunbeds. It's not like they haven't been publicised before. If you see or read any of the interviews with the mother and daughter, they are not stupid people. Plus the mother had already forbidden the daughter from going to the salon. Would this not be the perfect opportunity to why, if there were any doubts as to the daughter's understanding?

I am getting pretty sick of this blame culture. Why can't people accept responsibility for their own mistakes, instead of looking for someone else to blame all of the time? Is it the hope that they may get compo out of it?

One other question that I have is why is it ok for a 16yr old to use a sunbed, but not a child aged 15yrs and 364 days?

you say you are sick of the "blame culture" , but have been one of the most vociferous of defenders of compensation payouts in the past

[Guest]

you say you are sick of the "blame culture" , but have been one of the most vociferous of defenders of compensation payouts in the past

I like to play devil's advocate, for a start but I have also criticised compensation payouts. What I have done is explained why the decision has been made, which in some of the examples people have posted, has been correct.

It just seems to me that people now see blaming others is an easy way of getting money, but hey ho.

[Zingari]

I like to play devil's advocate, for a start but I have also criticised compensation payouts. What I have done is explained why the decision has been made, which in some of the examples people have posted, has been correct.

It just seems to me that people now see blaming others is an easy way of getting money, but hey ho.

so when you wrote this ;

Many judges, barristers, solicitors, scholars etc do criticise the system. There are plenty of cases where judges have stated that a person is at fault for their injuries, but that shouldn't absolve the owners of premises from neglecting their duty of care owing to the state of their premises etc.

This is the civil system, not the criminal courts where cases do not reach court if there is insufficient evidence or a weak argument, and if one party thinks that have a case, they can issue a writ. The reason it goes to court is because of the grey areas; it's not that simple. This is the point that I'm making. In any of the cases cited in the newspapers, do you know the full facts, and do you know the reasons why the decision went in their favour? I certainly don't, and until I do, I will reserve making any judgments.

Besides, wouldn't you prefer to live in a society where you can challenge people rather than a society that says "tough shit" regardless of the circumstances?

in this thread

http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/index.ph...40&start=40

you were just playing devil's advocate ?

[BoneDog]

I tell you where alot of problems lie today, with parents letting kids act as if they are adults. They do this because they think they have to due to being told so by tv and so on.

[welck12]

There is no law in the first place. But why should there be? Shouldn't people be using common sense, or is this slowly being phased out of the gene pool?

My gym has rules saying that children aren't allowed in certain areas, but parents are quite happy to let their kids play about in them. One day, some child is going to have an accident, and I can guarantee the day it does, the parents will be blaming the gym staff for not supervising their children.

I think its already been phased out, hence the little handbook is now required

[Guest]

so when you wrote this ;

Many judges, barristers, solicitors, scholars etc do criticise the system. There are plenty of cases where judges have stated that a person is at fault for their injuries, but that shouldn't absolve the owners of premises from neglecting their duty of care owing to the state of their premises etc.

This is the civil system, not the criminal courts where cases do not reach court if there is insufficient evidence or a weak argument, and if one party thinks that have a case, they can issue a writ. The reason it goes to court is because of the grey areas; it's not that simple. This is the point that I'm making. In any of the cases cited in the newspapers, do you know the full facts, and do you know the reasons why the decision went in their favour? I certainly don't, and until I do, I will reserve making any judgments.

Besides, wouldn't you prefer to live in a society where you can challenge people rather than a society that says "tough shit" regardless of the circumstances?

in this thread

http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/index.ph...40&start=40

you were just playing devil's advocate ?

And your problem is?

That post was in relation to an injury caused by a gate that was in a poor state of repair. It explains why, and is an accurate reflection of the state of the law of negligence, and in its context can easily be distinguished from the facts in today's example.

As the post stated, the law of negligence is not simple. But my post, if you read it carefully, does a good job of sitting on the fence as well.

I actually feel flattered that you have taken the time, effort and trouble to try, yet again, to have an online argument with me, and to dig up a post made ages ago, well that's pretty commendable.

[cisono]

I draw the line very low.

90% of today's teenagers ought to be sacked/retrained/moved to another job

[welck12]

Back in my day....

I could go into a rant about teenagers but i'll just say that its a shame that a minority of them give the rest of them a bad name; from my dealings with them anyway. But of course my dealings could be the minority.

Saying that though i would be more than happy to lock them all up until they turn 20....

[Guest]

Back in my day....

I could go into a rant about teenagers but i'll just say that its a shame that a minority of them give the rest of them a bad name; from my dealings with them anyway. But of course my dealings could be the minority.

Saying that though i would be more than happy to lock them all up until they turn 20....

There's always been good and bad kids. Maybe when I was younger, I didn't notice the badduns as much.

[The People's Hero]

For what it's worth, albeit slightly off topic, there are plenty of adult idiots who can't obey simple tanning guidelines/rules and end up horifically burnt and yet still sue, rather than take any responsibility themselves.

I write a lot of treatment risk cover and the amount of idiots and chancers out there really is staggering.

[Guest]

For what it's worth, albeit slightly off topic, there are plenty of adult idiots who can't obey simple tanning guidelines/rules and end up horifically burnt and yet still sue, rather than take any responsibility themselves.

I write a lot of treatment risk cover and the amount of idiots and chancers out there really is staggering.

There are clear instructions and advice with the sunbeds at the gym. It takes no time to read them. As a consequence, I have never been burnt. Yay me!

[Daggers]

Teenagers scare the living shit out of me, they could care less as long as someone'll bleed.

[Corky]

While the blame and claim culture is still at large, this type of incident will occur regularly.

[BoneDog]

Teenagers scare the living shit out of me, they could care less as long as someone'll bleed.

Exactly. I seen a fight recently and it ended limply. A teenage girl was absolutely fuming because she never saw blood. No word of a lie, she was livid. I thought "uck me, we are doomed".

[AoWW]

Teenagers... 'orrible.

[Daggers]

There are clear instructions

Not if you are trying to use them to make a toasted cheese sandwich.

Bloody crap instructions if you are trying to use them to make a toasted cheese sandwich.

[Foxhateram]

It is interesting that such a stereotype is made, as someone said before it is only a minority that gives teenagers a bad name.

Stereotyping all Teenagers into one foul group, as many older people do is unfair. It is a shame that the media always write's all the bad stories about people of that age, as it means that older people who rely on the media for "Real" news get a horrible image of them.

What about the teenagers who go out to Africa and do voluntary work to aid LEDC (less economically developed countries) What about the the teenagers that run football teams (i.e. me) What about the teenagers who help the old ladies accross the road, carry their bags for them etc.

Of course none of that will ever be posted in the media as it does not fit the stereotype in which they have created over the last decade or so of people that age, and only bad news is good news to them. There are plenty of bad stories i admit, but they are severly exagerated and the images that are used are clever and deceiving as to make it look like large groups are all part of the story. i.e A man was attacked in a park a few weeks back, there were alot of teens there but only 2-3 of them actually did any damage. However the story and the images used made it as if the whole group had attacked him. Hardy fair on hose individuals who were not involved.

Pictures speak a thousand words- However you should always question pictures as they often show more then what is actually true. They get used as evidence but are often twisted and edited to how the media want you to read them.

Classifying all teenagers as the same bad bunch is like saying all football fans are hooligans and as we all know that is unfair and untrue as its only a minorty that ruines it for everyone. Its like saying all Foxestalk members are illiterate and argumentative just because a select few use text talk and dont understand the word PARAGRAPH

Linking my (what has now become a report ) to the story that was linked. She admitted she was wrong to use the bed. She obviously was not looking to blame anyone but just warn others of the implications of her actions. It takes a brave person to do that. As i said not all teenagers are bad

[AoWW]

It is interesting that such a stereotype is made, as someone said before it is only a minority that gives teenagers a bad name.

Stereotyping all Teenagers into one foul group, as many older people do is unfair. It is a shame that the media always write's all the bad stories about people of that age, as it means that older people who rely on the media for "Real" news get a horrible image of them.

What about the teenagers who go out to Africa and do voluntary work to aid LEDC (less economically developed countries) What about the the teenagers that run football teams (i.e. me) What about the teenagers who help the old ladies accross the road, carry their bags for them etc.

Of course none of that will ever be posted in the media as it does not fit the stereotype in which they have created over the last decade or so of people that age, and only bad news is good news to them. There are plenty of bad stories i admit, but they are severly exagerated and the images that are used are clever and deceiving as to make it look like large groups are all part of the story. i.e A man was attacked in a park a few weeks back, there were alot of teens there but only 2-3 of them actually did any damage. However the story and the images used made it as if the whole group had attacked him. Hardy fair on hose individuals who were not involved.

Pictures speak a thousand words- However you should always question pictures as they often show more then what is actually true. They get used as evidence but are often twisted and edited to how the media want you to read them.

Classifying all teenagers as the same bad bunch is like saying all football fans are hooligans and as we all know that is unfair and untrue as its only a minorty that ruines it for everyone. Its like saying all Foxestalk members are illiterate and argumentative just because a select few use text talk and dont understand the word PARAGRAPH

Linking my (what has now become a report ) to the story that was linked. She admitted she was wrong to use the bed. She obviously was not looking to blame anyone but just warn others of the implications of her actions. It takes a brave person to do that. As i said not all teenagers are bad

Blummin' are. Argumentative bunch, telling us 'older people' how misguided we are. You'll be telling us next that, as you're helping Granny across the road, you're not scheming how to mug the poor old dear.

[The People's Hero]

There are clear instructions and advice with the sunbeds at the gym. It takes no time to read them. As a consequence, I have never been burnt. Yay me!

Most tanning salons etc now get you to sign quite a lot of papers to confirm you understand the rules and are aware of the guidelines for safe use etc.

People ignore the rules and through their own idiocy, end up burnt.. but despite all the paperwork etc and the claimant having NO ground to stand on at all, insurers seem to pay out to get them to 'go away'.

Incredibly frustrating. I'm trying to write a profitable account.

[AoWW]

Most tanning salons etc now get you to sign quite a lot of papers to confirm you understand the rules and are aware of the guidelines for safe use etc.

People ignore the rules and through their own idiocy, end up burnt.. but despite all the paperwork etc and the claimant having NO ground to stand on at all, insurers seem to pay out to get them to 'go away'.

Incredibly frustrating. I'm trying to write a profitable account.

Ooh, how much? I'm thinking for a little bit of sunburn (which will turn a nice golden brown later!) it could well be worth it.....