An open letter to Gordon Brown

[Webbo]

I'm puzzled by people's on going reference to the fact that Brown has no mandate in that he wasn't elected. Surely none of our Prime Ministers are elected and I didn't hear too many people complaining when John Major became Prime Minister in a similar way.

Thrac as for Hitler being a Socialist, well he fooled a lot of people at the time by including that word in the title of his party and still seems to be doing so.

The Nazi (National Socialist) movement was a working class movement that created jobs for the unemployed in Germany. In many ways it was a skewed version of socialism and not really conservative at all.

[Flynny]

There is nothing ambiguous about Labour's discrimination and instead of pretending differently, can you not see it is that which is and has pursuaded ordinary live-and-let-live white people to turn to the only politicians they believe will look after their jobs, their rights, their homes, their welfare and their sense of worth?

I have never in over 40 years known anything like the anger and resentment there is out there.

The fury about how hard it is for needy white families to get housing assistance, how pointless it is trying to apply for the few jobs on offer, how impossible it is to complain about anyone or anything that relates to someone of a different ethnic background is impossible to over-state.

Only yesterday there was national focus on the latter...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090223/tuk-w...im-6323e80.html

And when it comes to disguising the real message from released statistics the following was published AFTER I'd been told by the son of a police officer that a huge proportion of knife crime related to the immigrant populations but that this information was being strategically withheld...

If Ultra wants to say my "huge proportion" remark is untrue then I'm listening.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/c...icle2284258.ece

And the response from a minister from our "strong on crime and the causes of crime" government ...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090223/tuk-k...on-6323e80.html

But still you excuse them and suggest that Labour's orchestration of the build-up of anti-immigrant resentment is not deliberate and effectively nothing to do with them.

Perhaps it is all the fault of misguided reaction by English whites...

Whites who are idiotically and unreasonably:-

Wanting to keep THEIR jobs.

Wanting to have alternative jobs to go to if their own is lost instead of having the jobs filled by people from umpteen other lands whose people don't have the same often government-imposed living costs as our workers do.

Wanting to keep THEIR houses so that THEIR wives and children have a roof and can feel safe.

Wanting to be sure that, in times of hardship THEIR welfare system, which THEY have paid into, comes to THEIR rescue instead of putting all and sundry, who have contributed sod-all to this country and its welfare provisions, at the head of the queue all the time and then some.

The socialists deliberately, calculatingly and systematically refer to the racial aspect of the BNP and repeat terms like racist and fascist tactically for one basic reason.

It is to keep the BNP'smessage away from the media so that Labour can continue with policies which clearly undermine the white British population of this country and effectively stand as an anti-white racist agenda the like of which has never been matched in my lifetime.

And, as usual with Labour there is a grain of truth in what they say but a whole lot more truth in what they omit to say.

The truth is that there are racists in the BNP. And what a field day they'll be having right now. But they were never a threat in the past and were never likely to be, especially among my generation. Few non-extemists would ever have dreamed of joining the BNP but it's certainly not the case now.

Even now this doesn't mean normally easy-going white folk want to be racist - many disagree with some of the BNP's more extreme pronouncements - but they do want their rights, their self-respect, their peace of mind and the social harmony of their country back.

This, of course, is what Labour are belatedly recognising and pretending half-heartedly to do something about.

Not, of course, for the good of our land but in a desperate bid to preserve their power, to keep their cushy jobs, their privileged perks, their inflated expenses, their ill-gotten backhanders and the support of the trades unions without whom they and their supplementary Communist/Marxist cohorts would be nothing.

But it is too late. Apart from the diehards in the Welsh valleys and similar Red Flag strongholds, no-one believes them. In fact far more believe that they have done irrepairable damage to this country, home and abroad, in so many ways. And that's the kind things they say.

Your consistent comments about 'anti-white discrimination' are totally missing the point every time - minorities require far more protection than majorities. I don't think that's hard to understand. In times of hardship, everyone blames immigrants.

This is made worse by people being overly politically correct - the root of this is people trying to be too nice! People attempting to be sensitive to sensitivities that don't exist.

I don't see how immigration would cause anyone to lose a job they already had, and you can't ship out immigrants so that jobs are harder to fill so that there's more available- in what way is that fair?

The majority of the BNP's support are thick, ignorant people in a shit job/no job with a shit education who are always looking to blame others for how their lives have gone, half of whom are probably more of a drain on the welfare system than the immigrants they don't like. There are clever people in the BNP, true. Clever people who are no-where near as nice as I know you are - and advocate not only stopping immigration, but shipping out half the people already here. And for what purpose? What about when the economy is stoked up again and we need manual labourers to fill not only the skills but the generation gap? What about when you retire and there's not enough people working who can pay your pension because immigrants usually have far more children than the 'indigenous' population and are pretty much the only reason we've not already hit dangerous negative population growth?

The only thing I disagree with is the lack of debate politicians have on the issue for fear of appearing racist to people too silly to realise they're not being. I certainly would advocate a reduction in immigration at times like these when we're having difficulty serving the people already here. That's what stirs up unrest and drives people to the BNP - but the BNP don't stand for making things fairer, they stand for appeasing a majority, they just tell a frightened population that its the dusky one that's to blame, and like I've said and as you well know, everyone is happy to blame cultural outsiders the second the shit hits the fan, right throughout history. Mainstream politicians as a whole are making it far worse by refusing to engage with the issues, but most actions raised as 'Political Correctness Gone Mad' or 'Anti-white Racism' are simply the actions of tinpot councillors who don't know what they're doing.

Mandelson's recent comments were pretty perplexing though, I do admit.

[davieG]

The Nazi (National Socialist) movement was a working class movement that created jobs for the unemployed in Germany. In many ways it was a skewed version of socialism and not really conservative at all.

That was their strategy to win the popular vote but they were never a party of social responsibility.

[Webbo]

That was their strategy to win the popular vote but they were never a party of social responsibility.

It's fair to say that they really believed in full employment and it wasn't just a strategy. It was their views on racial superiority that sets them apart from real left wingers.

[Thracian]

I'm puzzled by people's on going reference to the fact that Brown has no mandate in that he wasn't elected. Surely none of our Prime Ministers are elected and I didn't hear too many people complaining when John Major became Prime Minister in a similar way.

Thrac as for Hitler being a Socialist, well he fooled a lot of people at the time by including that word in the title of his party and still seems to be doing so.

a) I didn't say he had "no" mandate. Only that Harman would have "no more" mandate. When there's an election people vote for a party but are influenced in that vote by knowing who the Prime Minister will be. If the Prime Minister changes mid-stream then it is certain some people's views will change. And there is no doubt that's exactly that happened when Major took over.

b) How to define the word socialist! That's difficult. Hypocritical political bullshit for the masses? Hitler came close enough.

[davieG]

a) I didn't say he had "no" mandate. Only that Harman would have "no more" manadate. When an election people vote for a party but are influenced in that vote by knowing who the Prime Minister will be. If the Prime Minister changes mid-stream then it is some people's views will change. And there is no doubt that exactly that happened when Major took over.

Fair enough

b) How to define the word socialist! That's difficult. Hypocritical political bullshit for the masses? Hitler came close enough.

Touché!

[Thracian]

a) Your consistent comments about 'anti-white discrimination' are totally missing the point every time - minorities require far more protection than majorities. I don't think that's hard to understand. In times of hardship, everyone blames immigrants.

b) This is made worse by people being overly politically correct - the root of this is people trying to be too nice! People attempting to be sensitive to sensitivities that don't exist.

c) I don't see how immigration would cause anyone to lose a job they already had, and you can't ship out immigrants so that jobs are harder to fill so that there's more available- in what way is that fair?

d) (1)The majority of the BNP's support are thick, ignorant people in a shit job/no job with a shit education who are always looking to blame others for how their lives have gone, half of whom are probably more of a drain on the welfare system than the immigrants they don't like. (2) There are clever people in the BNP, true. Clever people who are no-where near as nice as I know you are - and advocate not only stopping immigration, but shipping out half the people already here. And for what purpose? What about when the economy is stoked up again and we need manual labourers to fill not only the skills but the generation gap? (3) What about when you retire and there's not enough people working who can pay your pension because immigrants usually have far more children than the 'indigenous' population and are pretty much the only reason we've not already hit dangerous negative population growth?

e) The only thing I disagree with is the lack of debate politicians have on the issue for fear of appearing racist to people too silly to realise they're not being. I certainly would advocate a reduction in immigration at times like these when we're having difficulty serving the people already here. That's what stirs up unrest and drives people to the BNP - but the BNP don't stand for making things fairer, they stand for appeasing a majority, they just tell a frightened population that its the dusky one that's to blame, and like I've said

and as you well know, everyone is happy to blame cultural outsiders the second the shit hits the fan, right throughout history. Mainstream politicians as a whole are making it far worse by refusing to engage with the issues, but most actions raised as 'Political Correctness Gone Mad' or 'Anti-white Racism' are simply the actions of tinpot councillors who don't know what they're doing.

f) Mandelson's recent comments were pretty perplexing though, I do admit.

a) It's a massive subject but, with respect, I totally disagree. A City might have a million asians and a hundred whites. But if the 100 whites attacked one asian in a sidestreet who would need the protection? It is the same when going for a job. If the boss and all his advisers believe a certain candidate is the best qualified for a job but one adviser warns that the ethnic quotas require balancing who is the one who really needs protection if he's ever to secure a livelihood? Immigrants are by no means the only cause of our problems but the employment figures relating to immigrants - and the indefensible bias they reflect - is certainly one of them

b) Broadly agree with that.

c) Of course it does and in many ways, particularly when so many industries are under threat/shedding workers and when immigrants are given advantages in securing such jobs are on offer. Employers too will unscrupulously take advantage of sometimes cheaper immigrant labour at the expense of existing staff.

d) (1) Well, members of the BNP might well have no jobs if they are discriminated against by being sacked for being members of that party, however that can be justified in a free society when you can employ a Welsh Nationalist or whatever party relates to Scottish nationalism.

And while some BNP members might well draw benefit they also might well have lived here all their lives, paid all sorts in hidden taxes, and be the ones who our politicians are elected to serve, first and foremost. The further irony comes if they are actually being kept out of work by the immigrants you mention and therefore have even less chance of finding work than they did before.

(2) I would not ship anyone out if they were legally here and wanted to stay. But I would ensure much greater control over the numbers admitted in the first place and would make sure our own potential workers were properly trained for the jobs that needed doing.

I have no problem with manual work. There is nothing demeaning about manual work and the value of such work is every bit as vital as that of a lawyer or schoolteacher. I work on a market. It doesn't make me feel inferior to anyone. If there are jobs to spare when the resident population has been satisfied then I'm all for imported labour so long as all people are treated fairly and effort is made to see those job levels are sustained.

(3) Our population level does need keeping in check and I truly shudder at the levels of taxation that people, particularly young people will be saddled with here in the future. It matters little to me though. I will never be wealthy enough to retire and the two years of relative inactivity I had during my wife's illness has made me quite happy to face the prospect of work until the end of my days because I enjoy my job. I've long worked for myself and with any luck won't need anyone to pay my pension. If I did I truly hope I'll simply have the courage to lie down on a mountainside and leave the problems to someone else.

e) So many in the country agree with that, including some Labour people. Doesn't seem to make much difference. With any luck the BNP will change and eventually become a party of people who care for this proud nation, rather like the Labour Party used to.

f) Mandelson's inspires nothing but contempt from me and is in a League of his own in so many ways. And the representation of so much that's wrong with our country's politics.

[Zingari]

I stopped reading when he spelt 'Britain' like 'Briton'

i stopped when i saw it was written by a geordie , what a bunch of moaning twats they are

[Flynny]

Thracian - can we be fairly in agreement that political correctness goes too far (we probably disagree on the extent) and the fault lies with government rather than immigration? And that these concerns regrettably fuel parties like the BNP based on fear, who are targeting immigrants rather than the root of the problems, which is patronising behaviour towards immigrants and a lack of communication between communities that all-too easily segregate?

Whilst it'd be nice if the BNP did what it said on the tin but not to the exclusion of ethnic minorities, I think we stand a better chance of hoping that Labour - and the entire political climate - changes. It's easy to blame Labour, and I'm not a fan, but like I said before, all of politics shies away from the issue now. I remember a central plank of Howard's 2005 manifesto being a immigration threshold of something like 200k-250k, set year on year and with room for maneuver in case of crisis. Now, even if you don't agree with this, I can't see anyone thinking it's a particularly horrible, unreasonable, racist suggestion, but that's what I remember it being satirised as and described as in more hyperbolic sections of the press.

Since I didn't take quite so much interest in politics at the time I'd quite like to know if Ultra (or anyone else!) remembers more than I do, because the reaction in the left-centre press was pretty bad for something that sounds innocuous on the surface. I don't remember the issues involved anymore.

[Daggers]

Brown replied yet, has he?

[Flynny]

He's too busy ruining the country, LOLZ!!!! [/satire!!!!]

Be interested to see what Ultra makes of my mangled semi-understood memories of the '05 election though. I hope he reads this.

[Ultra]

It's into the early hours, so I haven't time for a detailed analysis.

But the Tories were seduced by certain tabloids into thinking a crude, populist, anti-tax, anti-crime, anti-immigrant, anti-Europe campaign would suffice to sweep them back to power. They were badly wrong.

Tony Blair had already stolen their thunder on several of those core issues, and continued economic growth and increasing prosperity for Middle England were enough to secure Labour a third term, despite slippage of votes to the Lib Dems by voters perturbed by a slavish pro-US foreign policy (which was also backed by the Tories).

The Tory plan for a quota on immigrants, which I believe still remains their official policy, is not only illegal under international law (as they admit) but also unworkable. It takes no account of potential conflicts elsewhere in the world which may cause an increase in refugees and asylum-seekers. Their cases should continue to be assessed on individual circumstances, as is the case now.

if the current climate of fear persists until spring 2010, and the Tories do return to government, some of their rhetoric would be toned down. Previous Tory governments took a more pragmatic approach to working with European allies and I suspect a Cameron government would do likewise.

[breadandcheese]

The Tory plan for a quota on immigrants, which I believe still remains their official policy, is not only illegal under international law (as they admit) but also unworkable. It takes no account of potential conflicts elsewhere in the world which may cause an increase in refugees and asylum-seekers. Their cases should continue to be assessed on individual circumstances, as is the case now.

There is a paperwidth of difference between the Labour and Tory position on immigration, so little is the difference that they may as well as have the same policy.

Both parties are committed to helping genuine asylum seekers with no quota limit. Both parties are advocating a skills-based immigration test for those from outside the EU, which by it's very nature implies a limit on the numbers, whether expressed openly, or left unsaid. That to me is very little difference.

[Ultra]

There is a paperwidth of difference between the Labour and Tory position on immigration, so little is the difference that they may as well as have the same policy.

Both parties are committed to helping genuine asylum seekers with no quota limit. Both parties are advocating a skills-based immigration test for those from outside the EU, which by it's very nature implies a limit on the numbers, whether expressed openly, or left unsaid. That to me is very little difference.

It's far from certain that the Tories are committed (if they are, they're choosing to keep it quiet), and there is evidence to suggest Labour's record while in office hasn't been impressive either.

But both parties are unduly influenced by elements in the media who hype up immigration to make it appear a far bigger issue than it actually is.

As this thread has shown, even people of considerable intelligence can be swayed by this rhetoric.

That's why the BNP could be a real danger at this year's Euro-elections. With the collapse of UKIP and whatever party Kilroy-Silk is leading this week, there's a real vacuum waiting to be filled on the far-right.

And the economic downturn gives them a ready-made set of conditions to exploit.

I expect the BNP to win several seats in these elections, including one in the East Midlands. They won't have any more influence in the European Parliament than similar extremist parties from elsewhere on the continent who are already there. But their representatives will gain access to considerable funding which they'll use to spread their poison further.

[Thracian]

a) "But both parties are unduly influenced by elements in the media who hype up immigration to make it appear a far bigger issue than it actually is."

This "blame the media" line, while a favourite on here, is nonsense.

The truth is that Labour are so keen to hide or play down any statistics which threaten to erode support for their politices or which show immigrants in a bad light instead of the good light they seek to constantly present whatever the truth, that the media has become ever more hungry to seek out further examples. And how easy that seems to be.

If the figures weren't either manipulated or attempts weren't made to withhold them for political reasons then perhaps the media wouldn't be so cynical.

And the same goes for things like backhanders, MPs expenses etc. If Labour weren't so busy hiding things the media wouldn't be so keen to search for them.

b) "That's why the BNP could be a real danger at this year's Euro-elections."

At least you (and Peter Hain) seem to recognise the threat at last. But it did take a long time for you and others to move out of denial.

Pity though that Labour is having to scurry around now trying to make gestures reducing discrimination against whites out of political expediency - moves that only act as an admission of how discriminatory your party has already been and will doubtless be again if ever re-elected.

c) "And the economic downturn gives them (the BNP) a ready-made set of conditions to exploit."

This isn't just about economics. It's about preferential treatment. It's about looking after others ahead of our own.

It's about giving out millions to terrorist, alleged terrorists and others who don't deserve it, all in the name of the human rights bill, while continuing to kick the people who make this country tick.

It's about ignoring the rights of ordinary people in favour of the special beneficiaries of that bill of human rights, like travellers and other minorities.

It's about the erotion of free speech and even the Soviet-style persecution of BNP members for joining a perfectly legal political party while Scottish and Welsh nationalists face no such discrimination and Labour people can keep their jobs while being as racist as they like.

It's about allowing the compensation culture to affect our everyday lives.

It's about the nanny state, the constant attack on our pubs and other aspects of our everyday life, the oppressive scrutiny, the prosecution of ridiculous wars, the hypocrisy, the corruption and so much more that you seem to think the media have simply made up.

It's about the inevitable loss of incentive for so many, in an increasingly Marxist environment.

Don't pretend this is just about the economy. We've most of us known hard times in the past and under all sorts of governments.

It's about the turning of our nation into a laughing stock, indeed the erotion of our very nationhood in many ways, and making its longstanding English residents the victims of so-much unfair, misguided, ill thought out and idealistic bullshit.

The sorry state, and irresponsible administration, of our economy only comes on top of all that.

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