Just another sorry chapter...errr Book!

[Guest Bilo]

I can and will make exactly the same point - particularly towards those who appear convinced that a government led by David Cameron (or worse still, Nick Griffin) will somehow solve all Britain's current woes.

Is every political body that's to the right of Labour politically in the same bracket as the BNP then? This appears to be what you're saying about David Cameron and the Conservative party.

[Dr The Singh]

Is every political body that's to the right of Labour politically in the same bracket as the BNP then? This appears to be what you're saying about David Cameron and the Conservative party.

I think he saying all the political parties are shit, full stop!!

I'm gonna form the truth party, instead of trying to fool the public how shit my party is, were just gonna tell them beforehand.....I look for ward to my £67k salary and my second home allowance only 200 yards from my first home!!!

[Manwell Pablo]

I've already said a million times we should make Thracian Prime Minister as he seems to have all the answers.

I'm quite sure some elborate plan to end the credit crunch by laying off all the traffic wardens in the country would be quite succesful.

[Dr The Singh]

I've already said a million times we should make Thracian Prime Minister as he seems to have all the answers.

I'm quite sure some elborate plan to end the credit crunch by laying off all the traffic wardens in the country would be quite succesful.

It would happen if only Thracian wouldn't do a monica lewinsky, while drink driving!!

[Hullfox]

Seems to me that the society that Thrach is complaining about is a product of his generation so I blame him for everything.

[Thracian]

I think he saying all the political parties are shit, full stop!!

I'm gonna form the truth party, instead of trying to fool the public how shit my party is, were just gonna tell them beforehand.....I look for ward to my £67k salary and my second home allowance only 200 yards from my first home!!!

That's pretty much as I view it.

And as things stand I could quite imagine you getting my vote.

[Thracian]

Seems to me that the society that Thrach is complaining about is a product of his generation so I blame him for everything.

In jest or otherwise you do make a good point. Young idealists I can forgive for being naive enough to vote for Labour's ill-conceived policies but the people of my generation who helped put them in really should have known better.

When Labour came to power under Tony Blair I said it was "the worst own goal in British history". In fact it's been a succession of own goals that future generations will pay for like no others before them and in so many ways.

[Ultra]

If you were convinced that Blair was so bad for Britain than why did you not lift a finger to help vote him out?

Political apathy clearly cuts across all generations..

[Thracian]

If you were convinced that Blair was so bad for Britain than why did you not lift a finger to help vote him out?

Political apathy clearly cuts across all generations..

My area had nothing to do with putting Tony Blair into office and was never going to with or without my vote. When I find a political party which represents a reasonable cross-section of my views then I'll vote for them. Why would anyone vote for someone they didn't want? Am I that noted for compromise?

[Hullfox]

In jest or otherwise you do make a good point. Young idealists I can forgive for being naive enough to vote for Labour's ill-conceived policies but the people of my generation who helped put them in really should have known better.

When Labour came to power under Tony Blair I said it was "the worst own goal in British history". In fact it's been a succession of own goals that future generations will pay for like no others before them and in so many ways.

As I remember though, there was no other option but to vote him in. The Tories were a spent force at that time and there was no other option.

In successive elections the opposition was woeful and true to his make up he got the hell out of there as soon as he realised that the Tories were once again a force. Cameron will be our next Prime Minister and Brown wil be put on the political scrapheap just where Blair wants to see him.

I have never supported Blair but I am able to recognise that the bloke is a political genius in his ability to stay one step ahead of his counterparts.

[Thracian]

As I remember though, there was no other option but to vote him in. The Tories were a spent force at that time and there was no other option.

In successive elections the opposition was woeful and true to his make up he got the hell out of there as soon as he realised that the Tories were once again a force. Cameron will be our next Prime Minister and Brown wil be put on the political scrapheap just where Blair wants to see him.

I have never supported Blair but I am able to recognise that the bloke is a political genius in his ability to stay one step ahead of his counterparts.

Yes, but only because easily led people were taken in by his impressionist Grin-and-Blair-It/Onward Christian Soldiers approach which served to mask the self-serving hypocrisy he so often represented.

[Flynny]

As far as I see it, the only story here is that some assylum seekers will commit crimes, which is a bit of a non-story. From the sounds of it he was diagnosed here. People with mental illnesses have good days and bad, I think it's quite conceivable that it's one of those things that no-one is to blame for.

[Thracian]

As far as I see it, the only story here is that some assylum seekers will commit crimes, which is a bit of a non-story. From the sounds of it he was diagnosed here. People with mental illnesses have good days and bad, I think it's quite conceivable that it's one of those things that no-one is to blame for.

He's to blame in the first instance and in the main. But also those supposed to be looking after him who failed or had no means of getting his medicine to him.

As people have said, schizophrenia can be contolled, not cured. But only when you have the resources to control it and at the very least to make sure the patient gets and takes his medicine. That didn't happen. Inevitably really because we don't have the resources or sufficient control to effectively be responsible for him as has been clearly demonstrated.

That part is exactly as I thought and I'm equally sure his problems would have been noticeable before he was allowed to settle here at the turn of the millennium. As stated, he shouldn't have been here and it's another example of irresponsible idealism that he was. Naivity that cost a life, injury to another and a lot of people's happiness. Things that should be answered for by those responsible.

[Guest]

As stated, he shouldn't have been here and it's another example of irresponsible idealism that he was.

Hang on, why shouldn't he be here?

[Thracian]

Hang on, why shouldn't he be here?

I've already explained it.

But it's the fact that you really don't know that bothers me.

Someday it will have to happen won't it...

That you or yours are actually affected by the lunacy of willfully allowing dangerous and unstable people into this country.

Cos from where I stand your just an eternal student, an idealist.

You want to see us take responsibility for everyone but the people who our nation's government are first and foremost charged with looking out for.

I'd love you to visit the wife and family of that dead policeman and explain to them how sorry you are for what happened but that "Mr Schitz" was really just a victim too and had every right to belong here.

In an ideal world it might even be true.

But it isn't an ideal world and never will be. Our guardians, and our system failed. It failed grossly in the fundamentally simple task of ensuing that the guy received and took his medicine. And also in seeing that, as a sick man, he was properly monitored.

That failure was of our making and was fatal. Just as similar failings have resulted in similar consequences.

And do you with your flawed ideology accept responsibility? Not at all.

Like others of your mindset you pass the buck and make excuses.

Human Rights? How about the rights of people to walk the streets without being stabbed? And more especially by someone who didn't need to be here in the first place and who was always likely to present a danger.

I heard about another kid's murder tonight - at a bakery. Once again the system failed because, once again the culprit had plenty of previous to set him apart as a violent bully and a danger to society. But that system didn't have the will or even the realistic option of dealing with him effectively before someone was killed rather than after.

And if we cannot look after the criminals who are born and raised here I'm bloody sure we're not qualified to look after extras.

Bill of Human Rights. I'd tear it into tiny pieces.

Only idiots sign pieces of paper that back them into a corner. However just and right thinking they may be.

[Guest]

Stuff

First of all, it doesn't say if the man was diagnosed as schizophrenic before he came here.

Secondly, he's not going to be granted asylum because of his mental health.

So I ask again, why shouldn't he be allowed in the UK in the first place?

[Houdini Logic]

The emphasis here should be on the fact he's a paranoid schitzophrenic, not that he's an assylum seeker.

Never have more sensible words been spoken

[Guest]

I heard about another kid's murder tonight - at a bakery. Once again the system failed because, once again the culprit had plenty of previous to set him apart as a violent bully and a danger to society. But that system didn't have the will or even the realistic option of dealing with him effectively before someone was killed rather than after.

Oh, with this one, the defendant was described as a bully, and a violent yob, but so far he's not been diagnosed with any mental disorder. You're asking a hell of a lot of the system to intervene earlier here.

[Flynny]

I've already explained it.

But it's the fact that you really don't know that bothers me.

Someday it will have to happen won't it...

That you or yours are actually affected by the lunacy of willfully allowing dangerous and unstable people into this country.

Cos from where I stand your just an eternal student, an idealist.

You want to see us take responsibility for everyone but the people who our nation's government are first and foremost charged with looking out for.

I'd love you to visit the wife and family of that dead policeman and explain to them how sorry you are for what happened but that "Mr Schitz" was really just a victim too and had every right to belong here.

In an ideal world it might even be true.

But it isn't an ideal world and never will be. Our guardians, and our system failed. It failed grossly in the fundamentally simple task of ensuing that the guy received and took his medicine. And also in seeing that, as a sick man, he was properly monitored.

That failure was of our making and was fatal. Just as similar failings have resulted in similar consequences.

And do you with your flawed ideology accept responsibility? Not at all.

Like others of your mindset you pass the buck and make excuses.

Human Rights? How about the rights of people to walk the streets without being stabbed? And more especially by someone who didn't need to be here in the first place and who was always likely to present a danger.

I heard about another kid's murder tonight - at a bakery. Once again the system failed because, once again the culprit had plenty of previous to set him apart as a violent bully and a danger to society. But that system didn't have the will or even the realistic option of dealing with him effectively before someone was killed rather than after.

And if we cannot look after the criminals who are born and raised here I'm bloody sure we're not qualified to look after extras.

Bill of Human Rights. I'd tear it into tiny pieces.

Only idiots sign pieces of paper that back them into a corner. However just and right thinking they may be.

You're missing what everyone else has pointed out, not the other way around - there's no reason he shouldn't have been here because it was here he was diagnosed. He could have appeared perfectly stable during the Assylum process. I don't see what's gone wrong, it's just tragic anyway.

[Guest]

You're missing what everyone else has pointed out, not the other way around - there's no reason he shouldn't have been here because it was here he was diagnosed. He could have appeared perfectly stable during the Assylum process. I don't see what's gone wrong, it's just tragic anyway.

Exactly.

I would like to know what people would like to see happen if someone who had emigrated from Britain committed a similar kind of offence, say in the US or Australia. Would those who think we shouldn't be opening our doors to mentallers be welcoming our ex-schizos back? Or would it be a case of "not our problem anymore"?

I have my suspicions.....

[skinnydipper]

He's to blame in the first instance and in the main. But also those supposed to be looking after him who failed or had no means of getting his medicine to him.

Things that should be answered for by those responsible.

Thracian , you're the king of blame culture

Systems are imperfect , individuals are fallible and hindsight is a wonderful weapon in the hands of the critic

Time after time you want heads on plates

In your world I imagine most would be too frightened to want positions of responsibility

I'd love you to visit the wife and family of that dead policeman and explain to them how sorry you are for what happened but that "Mr Schitz" was really just a victim too and had every right to belong here.

Trotted out time after time and often your weakest point

Shows a lack of objectivity which is so often the cause of a failure to make rational decisions

I bet you think that we could learn a lot from the Taliban system of justice

Thracian Taliban - Who'd have believed it!

[Thracian]

First of all, it doesn't say if the man was diagnosed as schizophrenic before he came here.

Secondly, he's not going to be granted asylum because of his mental health.

So I ask again, why shouldn't he be allowed in the UK in the first place?

a) I don't care whether he was "diagnosed" or not. Lots of schitzophrenics don't get formally diagnosed early on. I have no doubts whatever that any studious individual would have been perfectly capable of establishing that the guy had problems (including those of abuse) which were always likely to make him a risk. You just choose to close your eyes.

b) The Act is wrong and should be torn up along with the Bill of Human Rights. Our politicians have a responsibility, first and foremost, to the established residents of our country and for their safety. If a local authority puts a rapist in with a family of girls no-one seems to contest that it's wrong (though they still do it). Importing a guy who subsequently kills and injures people in a violent attack is equally wrong.

The fact that there are thousands like you who are prepared to put our people at risk through reference and subservience to flawed law is really one of the major problems in our country and a symptom that we are truly led by unseeing idealists.

[Thracian]

Hindsight is a wonderful weapon in the hands of the critic

Time after time you want heads on plates

In your world I imagine most would be too frightened to want positions of responsibility

Trotted out time after time and often your weakest point

Shows a lack of objectivity which is so often the cause of a failure to make rational decisions

Hindsight wouldn't have come into it. The bloke would never have been here.

I've never noticed any problem with staff being afraid of their responsibilities when I've employed people. They've had their guidelines and, apart from one thief, have proven themselves well able to respond as expected.

Are you saying there's a lack of objectivity in personal experience. Cos I think it's a massive benefit where leadership is concerned. Imagine a team-leading brain surgeon who had no experience. Brilliant.

As for rationality, I see nothing "rational" whatsoever in allowing a seriously violent and abusive man to settle or remain in this country.

[skinnydipper]

Hindsight wouldn't have come into it. The bloke would never have been here.

I've never noticed any problem with staff being afraid of thir responsibilities when I've employed people. They've had their guidelines and, apart from one thief, have proven themselves well able to respond as expected.

Are you saying there's a lack of objectivity in personal experience. Cos I think it's a massive benefit where leadership is concerned. Imagine a team leading brain surgeon who had no experience. Brilliant.

As for rationality, I see nothing "rational" whatsoever in allowing a seriously violent and abusive man to settle or remain in this country.

Blame, blame blame. And if you were the victim's uncle, brother, cat blah, blah, blah.

But I'd be interested to hear your views on the Taliban sysem of justice .Seems right up your street.

[BoneDog]

Blame, blame blame. And if you were the victim's uncle, brother, cat blah, blah, blah.

But I'd be interested to hear your views on the Taliban sysem of justice .Seems right up your street.

I know it's hard to believe, but a good majority of the Taliban are decent people. Unfortunately the powerful sections have been taken over by extremists and agents of outside influences. But the majority of them (probably 7 out of 10) are not hateful or oppressive.

Most stuff we see on tele is not true Taliban. They are just outsiders who come into that country for a fight and work for warlords. You can tell a true Taliban by the way they tie their turbans and the ones you see doing the shit are not real ones