England Vs Ukraine

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

I think Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man should be allowed to compete as individual nations.

Mostly agree with Finners on this though. Lame as it may be for the quality of football at times, each member nation of UEFA/FIFA deserves equality regardless of its size or sporting prowess. That's the way a Federation works.

I don't think anyone's denying them the right to compete, but these nations don't have the same passion for the sport in the same numbers that many others do. I know that that's partly because they're not that populated, but the following of the sport on average is still not great.

I'm sure they wouldn't mind competing in tournaments against similarly skilled teams, and playing the occaisional friendly aginst a more powerful nation if it suits them. It's not like they have a realistic chance of qualification to a Euro / World Cup.

[Corky]

I think Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man should be allowed to compete as individual nations.

Mostly agree with Finners on this though. Lame as it may be for the quality of football at times, each member nation of UEFA/FIFA deserves equality regardless of its size or sporting prowess. That's the way a Federation works.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to do away with them- I'd rather see these 8/9-0 scorelines brought down and becoming more infrequent.

Of course they have a right to compete.

[Corky]

After tonight I'm sure some of them would give Argentina a test

[Fosse Boy]

I don't think anyone's denying them the right to compete, but these nations don't have the same passion for the sport in the same numbers that many others do. I know that that's partly because they're not that populated, but the following of the sport on average is still not great.

I'm sure they wouldn't mind competing in tournaments against similarly skilled teams, and playing the occaisional friendly aginst a more powerful nation if it suits them. It's not like they have a realistic chance of qualification to a Euro / World Cup.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to do away with them- I'd rather see these 8/9-0 scorelines brought down and becoming more infrequent.

Of course they have a right to compete.

No, I know neither of you think we should get rid of them, but it's part of the nature of the international game that we don't afford one nation preference over another based on footballing prowess.

It's not like the club game where you can definitively say that one club is better than another because they've bought better players, have used money more wisely etc.

International football is more of a lottery as you can only pick players based on their country of origin (or similar factors). You have to work with the talent you're given and can't pick and choose it at your own behest.

Therefore I think you have to be a little more accommodating and diplomatic, and allow every country to compete on the same level, even if that means routine drubbings by the more football-centric nations.

[Thracian]

At least England are looking like a respectable team again. Some of their midfield passing tonight was excellent. But Ashley Cole looked like he was playing in blinkers.

He didn't know where the ball was in relation to his feet; direction-wise he looked like a novice driver whose sat-nav had sent him down a lumberman's track that meandered to a dead end, and he never seemed to appreciate that the other people on the pitch in white were team-mates.

[Part Of The Crowd]

Lennon was a class apart tonight

edit because I forgot what day it was

[Corky]

International football is more of a lottery as you can only pick players based on their country of origin (or similar factors). You have to work with the talent you're given and can't pick and choose it at your own behest.

Therefore I think you have to be a little more accommodating and diplomatic, and allow every country to compete on the same level, even if that means routing drubbings by the more football-centric nations.

I suppose you do, it is a shame though.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

At least England are looking like a respectable team again. Some of their midfield passing tonight was excellent. But Ashley Cole looked like he was playing in blinkers.

He didn't know where the ball was in relation to his feet; direction-wise he looked like a novice driver whose sat-nav had sent him down a lumberman's track that meandered to a dead end, and he never seemed to appreciate that the other people on the pitch in white were team-mates.

Still better than Bridge though.

[JakeShingler]

All good.

[Finnegan]

As a Wales fan I'm quite apathetic about my country's football at the moment, John Toshack has us by the throat and is slowly choking the life out of our sport - the man has to go.

But in previous years I've gotten far more excited about losing four-nil in the San Siro but getting to watch the likes of Sav and Giggs play the best team in the world than watching us go and beat Andorra or San Marino by a couple of goals.

Why would it be different for a San Marinan? Or their players at that matter. If once every couple of years they get to go and play in Munich, Barcelona, Milan or London I'm sure they're the sort of days they'll tell their grandkids about - whether they lose ten nil or not (which they never do, it should be worth pointing out.)

I'm quite confident they'd not throw that away for the chance to maybe win a game or two against Luxemburg.

It ain't broke - stop trying to fix it.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

As a Wales fan I'm quite apathetic about my country's football at the moment, John Toshack has us by the throat and is slowly choking the life out of our sport - the man has to go.

But in previous years I've gotten far more excited about losing four-nil in the San Siro but getting to watch the likes of Sav and Giggs play the best team in the world than watching us go and beat Andorra or San Marino by a couple of goals.

Why would it be different for a San Marinan? Or their players at that matter. If once every couple of years they get to go and play in Munich, Barcelona, Milan or London I'm sure they're the sort of days they'll tell their grandkids about - whether they lose ten nil or not (which they never do, it should be worth pointing out.)

I'm quite confident they'd not throw that away for the chance to maybe win a game or two against Luxemburg.

It ain't broke - stop trying to fix it.

Hence my friendly idea.

[Finnegan]

Why should they be denied the right to compete though?

If I were to say to you that the FA Cup should be reformatted, cut down to less games and the non-league and League 2 sides should all be cut out to make the tournament more efficient, better for the top clubs and to take out the pointless thrashings of lesser teams by the big-dogs then most of England would be utterly appalled.

What makes international football any different?

And this is without getting into the potential financial ramifications of denying 'minow' nations their rightful place in the competition. We have qualifying for a reason - to make sure the best teams qualify. Not to make sure the best teams qualify and everyone else has to qualify to qualify.

[Corky]

As a Wales fan I'm quite apathetic about my country's football at the moment, John Toshack has us by the throat and is slowly choking the life out of our sport - the man has to go.

But in previous years I've gotten far more excited about losing four-nil in the San Siro but getting to watch the likes of Sav and Giggs play the best team in the world than watching us go and beat Andorra or San Marino by a couple of goals.

Why would it be different for a San Marinan? Or their players at that matter. If once every couple of years they get to go and play in Munich, Barcelona, Milan or London I'm sure they're the sort of days they'll tell their grandkids about - whether they lose ten nil or not (which they never do, it should be worth pointing out.)

I'm quite confident they'd not throw that away for the chance to maybe win a game or two against Luxemburg.

It ain't broke - stop trying to fix it.

I was looking at as I would feel if I was in their position- getting beaten 9-0 wouldn't particularly fill me with pride and joy.

But they don't seem to mind too much, and that's the main thing, so I guess your last sentence is correct.

[Finnegan]

I was looking at as I would feel if I was in their position- getting beaten 9-0 wouldn't particularly fill me with pride and joy.

But they don't seem to mind too much, and that's the main thing, so I guess your last sentence is correct.

9 - 0 thrashings are extremely rare.

Look at England's recent games against most minor nations. They normally put in a really passionate, really hard working and really solid performance worthy of pride and respect.

Sure, Andorra have to resort to kicking lumps out of you (haha) but at least they're commited to giving it their all. More than can be said for monsieurs Lampard, Gerrard and co'.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Why should they be denied the right to compete though?

If I were to say to you that the FA Cup should be reformatted, cut down to less games and the non-league and League 2 sides should all be cut out to make the tournament more efficient, better for the top clubs and to take out the pointless thrashings of lesser teams by the big-dogs then most of England would be utterly appalled.

What makes international football any different?

And this is without getting into the potential financial ramifications of denying 'minow' nations their rightful place in the competition. We have qualifying for a reason - to make sure the best teams qualify. Not to make sure the best teams qualify and everyone else has to qualify to qualify.

They don't care!

And the FA Cup is set up so that teams who do reach the later rounds, after playing prelimaries, are rewarded with playing teams of higher stature on merit, after playing teams of equal ability. They earn their right to play more powerful teams.

[Guest Bilo]

They should have their own group where the best of the bad bunch get through, at least then you wont get these one sided games and it will give a small nation a chance to go the the WC, of course this will then mean they will become the whipping boys but one crap team woldnt be too bad, because currently there is no point of them even having competitive matches.

I agree. There should be preliminary qualifiers for the likes of Liechtenstein, San Marino and Andorra just as we have qualifying rounds for the Champions League and UEFA Cup. They're uncompetitive in the extreme and will never have the opportunity to change that by being mullered 10-0. They'll only improve by playing games at their level and slowly building on their experience.

[Corky]

9 - 0 thrashings are extremely rare.

Look at England's recent games against most minor nations. They normally put in a really passionate, really hard working and really solid performance worthy of pride and respect.

Sure, Andorra have to resort to kicking lumps out of you (haha) but at least they're commited to giving it their all. More than can be said for monsieurs Lampard, Gerrard and co'.

Yep, they do. I can't remember the last minor nation England really destroyed, I think Northern Ireland have beaten teams more empathically than England recently.

But these nations often do good things, like the Faroes going 2-0 up against Scotland

[Finnegan]

Only because there's utterly countless teams in the English league system and the tournament is in a knock-out format.

You have the capacity to give everyone a relatively equal opportunity (of course there's still, rightfully, seeding) for the EURO and World Cup qualifying campaigns so why would you want to take that away?

And who the fuck are you to say those people don't care? Just because they can't fill a stadium it doesn't mean they don't care. The people who show up still want to see their side give a good showing. I know Wales aren't going to qualify, I still go to every game I can and I still want us to show signs of promise in doing so.

I watch club football to expect my team to win games. I watch international football to find a little bit of pride in where I'm from and a little bit of enjoyment in seeing my national team go up against some of the best in the world. I highly doubt I'm alone in this.

[Part Of The Crowd]

As a Wales fan I'm quite apathetic about my country's football at the moment, John Toshack has us by the throat and is slowly choking the life out of our sport - the man has to go.

But in previous years I've gotten far more excited about losing four-nil in the San Siro but getting to watch the likes of Sav and Giggs play the best team in the world than watching us go and beat Andorra or San Marino by a couple of goals.

Why would it be different for a San Marinan? Or their players at that matter. If once every couple of years they get to go and play in Munich, Barcelona, Milan or London I'm sure they're the sort of days they'll tell their grandkids about - whether they lose ten nil or not (which they never do, it should be worth pointing out.)

I'm quite confident they'd not throw that away for the chance to maybe win a game or two against Luxemburg.

It ain't broke - stop trying to fix it.

Very good post. Eventually I'm sure a set of circumstances will lead to them actually winning one of the games against the so called stronger sides. imagine how good that will feel to them. Some of the players for these teams aren't even full time professionals and play in front of only a couple of hundred a week yet they get the opportunity to play against the Ronaldo's and Beckham's, despite losing I'm sure they feel really happy being able to take part.

[Finnegan]

I agree. There should be preliminary qualifiers for the likes of Liechtenstein, San Marino and Andorra just as we have qualifying rounds for the Champions League and UEFA Cup. They're uncompetitive in the extreme and will never have the opportunity to change that by being mullered 10-0. They'll only improve by playing games at their level and slowly building on their experience.

They aren't, realistically, going to improve - experience or not. Just let them enjoy the opportunity to compete. I really don't see why people always bring up wanting to remove these sides - or lessen their pressence. What harm does it ultimately cause?

They don't have the populations, it's as simple as that. Doesn't mean they won't spring a few surprises along the way.

And if they earn some heroic draw against a stronger country that sends you to the World Cup would it all be pointless then?

[Edmund]

I can't remember the last minor nation England really destroyed,

Maybe no team has destroyed us but these are the teams which people expect England to destroy and say they are wasting there time competing when in actual fact they give England a good game.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Only because there's utterly countless teams in the English league system and the tournament is in a knock-out format.

You have the capacity to give everyone a relatively equal opportunity (of course there's still, rightfully, seeding) for the EURO and World Cup qualifying campaigns so why would you want to take that away?

And who the fuck are you to say those people don't care? Just because they can't fill a stadium it doesn't mean they don't care. The people who show up still want to see their side give a good showing. I know Wales aren't going to qualify, I still go to every game I can and I still want us to show signs of promise in doing so.

I watch club football to expect my team to win games. I watch international football to find a little bit of pride in where I'm from and a little bit of enjoyment in seeing my national team go up against some of the best in the world. I highly doubt I'm alone in this.

Oh my, calm down . Let's not get personal.

I know that, obviously just because a team isn't widely followed it doesn't mean their fans lack passion, but in the countelsss interviews I see with Andora fans (and the like) before games, they honestly, really, couln't care less about the fortune's of their football team.

And if you're comparing Wales to Andorra, no matter how bad they may be at the minute, you need to rethink. In terms of resources, ability, and passion there is no contest.

Can you honestly say any fan of minnow teams find pride in constant batterings? It's humiliating.

[Guest Bilo]

Why should they be denied the right to compete though?

If I were to say to you that the FA Cup should be reformatted, cut down to less games and the non-league and League 2 sides should all be cut out to make the tournament more efficient, better for the top clubs and to take out the pointless thrashings of lesser teams by the big-dogs then most of England would be utterly appalled.

What makes international football any different?

And this is without getting into the potential financial ramifications of denying 'minow' nations their rightful place in the competition. We have qualifying for a reason - to make sure the best teams qualify. Not to make sure the best teams qualify and everyone else has to qualify to qualify.

I wouldn't deny them the right to compete, that's the last thing I'd suggest. Your FA Cup analogy is a good one though as it is close to what I would suggest is a good solution. We don't deny the likes of Hinckley, Kingstonian et al the chance to compete. What we do is enter them at an earlier stage of the competition such as the preliminary qualifiers and give them a chance of fighting through to the third round, where they would have a chance of meeting Manchester United or Liverpool. Some don't make it. That's because they haven't been good enough against teams of similar stature, and if they aren't good enough against them, how will they fare against the giants of the game? Those that do have earned their right to compete, rather than being awarded it on the basis that it's simply eleven men who should be considered equal.

[Tevez]

I'd love to gaffer San Marino!

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

I wouldn't deny them the right to compete, that's the last thing I'd suggest. Your FA Cup analogy is a good one though as it is close to what I would suggest is a good solution. We don't deny the likes of Hinckley, Kingstonian et al the chance to compete. What we do is enter them at an earlier stage of the competition such as the preliminary qualifiers and give them a chance of fighting through to the third round, where they would have a chance of meeting Manchester United or Liverpool. Some don't make it. That's because they haven't been good enough against teams of similar stature, and if they aren't good enough against them, how will they fare against the giants of the game? Those that do have earned their right to compete, rather than being awarded it on the basis that it's simply eleven men who should be considered equal.

That was my idea.

Finners seems to be adamant that Andorra will nick a cheeky away win in Paris at some point in the next two years.