Message understood?

[Dr The Singh]

Yes I agree Al-Taqiya exists but it's not a bad thing. Muslims were getting persecuted back then just as they are now in most Muslim countries round the world. All Al-Taqiya means is to hide your religion and not tell people if it means your life would be in danger. It doesn't mean hide your religion so you can get up to mischief. If some people have took it to mean that then they are not Muslim. They are fakes just like there are lots of fake Christians.

I don't think Christian extremism has passed. Robertson and the like are stronger than ever and are backing the extreme right to the hilt. They are also calling for Holy war to protect Jerusalem until Jesus comes back!

A real Muslim is someone who follows the Koran and Sunnah in its original form with no innovations. If you study the Koran and Hadith it is easy to see who is a real Muslim or not. Anyone following innovations is a fake. How can someone say they are a Muslim when they don't follow their book? The same as Christians who don't follow what Jesus said. It doesn't make sense. Being a Christian means to be like Christ was in his life and follow his way. There are fakes in both and they are easy to spot if you know what these religions really teach.

Zakir Naik is not an extremist ! He has debates all the time with Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and Christians. I've seen loads of em and he is not an extremist. I must of watched 25-30 hours of his talks and he is peaceful. I have seen the small clips of his talks that people use to try and slander him, but these clips don't tell the real story of what he's saying. I think that anyone who watches the whole things will see.

That's your interpretation Empty, Al-Taqiya is now widely used by those who have extremist ideologies to hide there extremities!!!

Relative to muslim extemism in the world, christianity is rather smaller, either way, not form of extremism should exist!!

There is no such Koran and Sunnah form from it's original form and no innovations, we've had this discussion before!!!!

I have studied the koran and read many hadiths, and to be honest never found it that easy to see. I have spoken to many muslims, good friends of mine, we debate all the time. I went further and read many of his biographies, having an objective approach, although quite a fasciniting person and way ahead of his time interms of some of the brutalities that were happening then, no offence I found there were far more contreversies if you relate mohammed to modern times.

There's far to much 'sugar' coating when it comes to religious icons and icons in history, as i have proven with the likes of Gandhi, and Islam is no different!! Modern scholary has done much to prove this, i'm sure as people within Islam, and other faiths begin to educate and see things more objectively, there perceptions will change, slightly and appreciate that things are not simple and that man is still a man and subject to the same mistakes, mishaps, failings as with all of us!!

Dr Zakir naik, is an extemist, I have watched enough to know that my friend. He degrades non muslims, and his views on women, non muslims, apostates, gays are no different then those of Bakhri. If you think his pro islamic rhetoric is 100% non extreme, then you my friend are a very blinkered, narrow visioned man!!! The guy plays on his knowledge which I say is very good, but he has been found to be a liar, he's the champions of fools and idiots!!!

I'm very fortunate to say I have some good muslim friends, friends who aren't so blinkered, but just like my sikh friends, there's many that are too narrow minded when it comes to religion and open thought!!!

[Flynny]

So, governments can cover up a massive inside operation to instigate a "global war on terror"...but they can't cover up porn film expense receipts, brutality in prisoner of war camps or blow job cum stains.

Seriously - those of you who believe in conspiracies need to wake up.

I'm not saying any of this is true or not. The conspiracy theories don't add up but neither do the 'facts'. I've no idea what to think.

[James.]

I'm not saying any of this is true or not. The conspiracy theories don't add up but neither do the 'facts'. I've no idea what to think.

That's pretty much where I stand.

Although I still really don't know WHY "they" would do that. Sometimes I get the impression that people who come up with these conspiracies are so focussed on apparent inconsistencies in events that they lose sight of the bigger picture, i.e. what the actual motive is.

Is there any reason why it wouldn't have been al-Qaeda? Who else would benefit by destroying the WTC?

[Hullfox]

In fairness you could do this for days. I've got no opnion on what went on because I can't get my head around it all but something definitely seems a bit fishy. Most conspiracy theorists decide what 'must' have happened and look for evidence based on that, and end up making some strong arguments and some weak ones that discredit them.

If you just accept that 'something a bit weird went on' and look for stuff to back that up it becomes much easier - there was definitely molten steel in the remains, I've seen several pictures of it - how that happened has never been explained and probably never will be because conspiracy buffs like to take everything too far.

That's exactly the point I was making. It took me a couple of minutes to come up with counter arguments and I could have countered them just as quickly. As with most things, people will believe what they want to anyway.

[Daggers]

I'm not saying any of this is true or not. The conspiracy theories don't add up but neither do the 'facts'. I've no idea what to think.

Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate

[BoneDog]

That's your interpretation Empty, Al-Taqiya is now widely used by those who have extremist ideologies to hide there extremities!!!

That is what I was trying to say. The true original meaning of Al-Taqiya was 'to hide your religion if revealing it would mean you would come to personal harm' or something along those lines. But as you say, nowadays some people have expanded it's meaning and say it is ok to hide your religion for wrongdoing. But someone who wants to be a proper Muslim and follow Muhammad would only use Al-Taqiya when needed to save themselves from harm and not to cause mischief. Else it defeats the object of being a Muslim in the first place. Anyone who uses it for bad deeds is not a Muslim. They just say they are

[BoneDog]

Although I still really don't know WHY "they" would do that. Sometimes I get the impression that people who come up with these conspiracies are so focussed on apparent inconsistencies in events that they lose sight of the bigger picture, i.e. what the actual motive is.

Is there any reason why it wouldn't have been al-Qaeda? Who else would benefit by destroying the WTC?

Good question. It's the first question any detective asks after a crime has been committed. Who benefits? Have a look and see who benefited from Sep11. Was it Bin Laden? I don't think it was. He can't go anywhere or do anything now (apparantley). The only people I can see who have benefited are the oil men in Washington. They have secured their pipeline in Afghanistan and now also control all the oil in Iraq. They have made billions of dollars personally as they are all directors or shareholders in the big oil companys. The money they spend on the wars is not their own, it is the taxpayers. But the money the oil companys make is in their own pockets.

Some would say they also make billions from the heroin trade in Afghanistan which has also tripled since 91. There is more heroin coming out of that country now than there ever was before. And with all the world soldiers there you would think it would be out of business now. It's not hard to destroy crops when you control the skies over a place. But no, the heroin trade is now secure and booming

[Edmund]

I'm not saying a government did anything. Most people realise that Prime-Ministers or Presidents aren't the real power. I think that folks who say the official story is wrong realise that there are very powerful people above the President who were involved. All these ministers who get caught doing stupid shit are not the real brains behind anything.

This.

Look at the whole Diana case. Says it all really.

I don't like to conspire or believe in many conspiracies but I think I would be ignorant to accept that the people we see in power are the end of the chain.

Who and what they do I don't know and will never know.

[Guest Mickyblueeyes]

That's your interpretation Empty, Al-Taqiya is now widely used by those who have extremist ideologies to hide there extremities!!!

Relative to muslim extemism in the world, christianity is rather smaller, either way, not form of extremism should exist!!

There is no such Koran and Sunnah form from it's original form and no innovations, we've had this discussion before!!!!

I have studied the koran and read many hadiths, and to be honest never found it that easy to see. I have spoken to many muslims, good friends of mine, we debate all the time. I went further and read many of his biographies, having an objective approach, although quite a fasciniting person and way ahead of his time interms of some of the brutalities that were happening then, no offence I found there were far more contreversies if you relate mohammed to modern times.

There's far to much 'sugar' coating when it comes to religious icons and icons in history, as i have proven with the likes of Gandhi, and Islam is no different!! Modern scholary has done much to prove this, i'm sure as people within Islam, and other faiths begin to educate and see things more objectively, there perceptions will change, slightly and appreciate that things are not simple and that man is still a man and subject to the same mistakes, mishaps, failings as with all of us!!

Dr Zakir naik, is an extemist, I have watched enough to know that my friend. He degrades non muslims, and his views on women, non muslims, apostates, gays are no different then those of Bakhri. If you think his pro islamic rhetoric is 100% non extreme, then you my friend are a very blinkered, narrow visioned man!!! The guy plays on his knowledge which I say is very good, but he has been found to be a liar, he's the champions of fools and idiots!!!

I'm very fortunate to say I have some good muslim friends, friends who aren't so blinkered, but just like my sikh friends, there's many that are too narrow minded when it comes to religion and open thought!!!

Both are very good points.

Every religious leader, be it Jesus, Mohammed, Moses, Krishna, Guru Nanak, Buddha or any other, have all got parts of their life that if you look at it with a bit of logic you can see that its either been made up or the guys a straight up liar!!

The problem in society is that many choose to "research" those books and those websites which already confirm what they believe and therefore dont posses an opinion but rather have just repeated the opinion of someone else.

Thankfully, their are still people who choose not to do that, live life with an open mind and consider each "controversy" with a pinch of salt.

Unfortunately, those who dont, read those books with are favourable to them and therefore are no more "enlightened" then when they started!!