Fans discrimination

[Tommeh]

Letter 1/2

Letter 2/2

And yet 50,000 Take that fans can stand, jump and drink in the same ground in the same year.

Same will happen at the Ricoh arena tonight.

Talk about double standards.

[Guest]

As far as I am concerned, seating at football matches is a form of suppression. It is far easier to control and monitor crowds if they are sitting in designated seats, and in many cases, the person sitting in the seat can be identified as they would have had to give their details when purchasing the ticket.

Football fans are seen as hooligans, and need to be controlled by the authorities. The clubs go along with this as they know that if they don't, then their safety certificates can be taken from them, and without the supporters going through the turnstiles, they lose an important revenue stream.

Similarly, we can't take alcohol onto the stands. We aren't allowed to get drunk, or even merry, and taking alcohol onto the seating areas will turn us all into raging thugs.

Take That fans, on the other hand, are no problem at all. Just a bunch of women and girls having a laugh. The fact that, as a female, I have only ever been physically assaulted at concerts is of no concern, because we all know women don't really behave like that. Even when drunk.

[Matt]

Anyone ever been to or watched a Tigers game on Sky when they are playing at the Walkers? They are allowed to take beer into the seating areas, Well i've seen several drinking in the seated areas on Sky anyway.

[Guest]

Anyone ever been to or watched a Tigers game on Sky when they are playing at the Walkers? They are allowed to take beer into the seating areas, Well i've seen several drinking in the seated areas on Sky anyway.

Apparently that's all going to end.

[lcfc_jme]

Is there any proof anywhere that the FSA or the SAG will definitely close a stand if clubs don't force fans to sit down? Pretty sure there was an incident with Yanited where they told the SAG to take them to court, 'cos they would lose and Yanited would be prepared to fight it all the way..

End of the day, it's all bollocks and pure conjecture. Football fans, because of a small minority of idiots and the complete ineptitude of some local police forces, will always draw the short straw and be treated like vermin. It'll never change because of the injustice re: Hillsborough, not to mention the "WMD" style report they made in the inquiry. Not only that, but football fans are on the whole too apathetic and dis-united to even begin changing things. Sad times.

[Edmund]

The fact that, as a female, I have only ever been physically assaulted at concerts is of no concern, because we all know women don't really behave like that. Even when drunk.

You haven't watched road wars have you?

[Guest]

football fans are on the whole too apathetic and dis-united to even begin changing things. Sad times.

The type of people who are going to games is changing. Families have always gone, kids used to have to sit on walls at the front of stands etc, swearing was allowed but "only inside the stadium", the banter was witty etc. But with the Sky era, all seater stadia, and increasing ticket prices, children are found in all parts of the ground, with parents who never grew up sitting by the edge of the pitch. They don't understand the banter, and a lot of the wit has gone, which only confirms their assumptions that those involved are brain-dead morons who need removing from the game. Rather than being apathetic, they applaud the efforts of the authorities in sanitising and taking away the character from the game.

I went to a Fans Forum meeting held at City on behalf of the Premier League the last time we were there, and the above pretty much summed up the feelings of many of the families represented in the meeting.

You haven't watched road wars have you?

[Fosse Boy]

The type of people who are going to games is changing. Families have always gone, kids used to have to sit on walls at the front of stands etc, swearing was allowed but "only inside the stadium", the banter was witty etc. But with the Sky era, all seater stadia, and increasing ticket prices, children are found in all parts of the ground, with parents who never grew up sitting by the edge of the pitch. They don't understand the banter, and a lot of the wit has gone, which only confirms their assumptions that those involved are brain-dead morons who need removing from the game. Rather than being apathetic, they applaud the efforts of the authorities in sanitising and taking away the character from the game.

[Corky]

The type of people who are going to games is changing. Families have always gone, kids used to have to sit on walls at the front of stands etc, swearing was allowed but "only inside the stadium", the banter was witty etc. But with the Sky era, all seater stadia, and increasing ticket prices, children are found in all parts of the ground, with parents who never grew up sitting by the edge of the pitch. They don't understand the banter, and a lot of the wit has gone, which only confirms their assumptions that those involved are brain-dead morons who need removing from the game. Rather than being apathetic, they applaud the efforts of the authorities in sanitising and taking away the character from the game.

Mucho agreed.

[lcfc_jme]

The type of people who are going to games is changing. Families have always gone, kids used to have to sit on walls at the front of stands etc, swearing was allowed but "only inside the stadium", the banter was witty etc. But with the Sky era, all seater stadia, and increasing ticket prices, children are found in all parts of the ground, with parents who never grew up sitting by the edge of the pitch. They don't understand the banter, and a lot of the wit has gone, which only confirms their assumptions that those involved are brain-dead morons who need removing from the game. Rather than being apathetic, they applaud the efforts of the authorities in sanitising and taking away the character from the game.

I went to a Fans Forum meeting held at City on behalf of the Premier League the last time we were there, and the above pretty much summed up the feelings of many of the families represented in the meeting.

Feel like I'm reading an argument I had with a few "fans" t'other week, in a roundabout kind of way.

All of them asking me why I want to stand up when I've got a perfectly good seat, and wondering how I'd stop myself from falling and hurting others if I were to be off-balance during celebrations. Of course these are Sky Sports Big Four "fans", but still, it's not even them I blame.

Sky can take a huge chunk of the blame, seeing as the money they throw at clubs leads to inflated wages, increased prices and the like. But clubs are just as much to blame as Sky, in my opinion. They don't care about the demographic change inside the grounds; they don't care that the older (I'm talking 18 - 40) lot are staying away. They just want to encourage families through the gates, and I know for definite that our club actively seeks to do this at the expense of my age bracket (18 - 24) because they've essentially all but said it to me in a meeting.

Football is being murdered so much by the corporates that it almost makes watching live rugby union look an attractive proposition. Standing without being chastised, drinking beer in view of the playing area, minding your own business and the like.

Sky, and ultimately football clubs, need us. Without people going and attempting to make an atmosphere, or attempting to bring character to the funereal and lifeless goldfish bowl stadia of the modern era, Sky games will lose some of their appeal. It'll be like watching the England Under 21's at every ground around the country. Half-empty stadiums are not what Sky or clubs want. They will NEVER fill games entirely with families.

I seriously hope the people at the top realise such obvious things before it's too late. I somehow don't think they'll quite get there, though..

[Uncle Albert]

Surely Sky would want everyone to be watching the games from home?

[lcfc_jme]

Surely Sky would want everyone to be watching the games from home?

You'd think.. Though really, with hardly anyone in the ground and no atmosphere whatsoever, it'd all seem like a friendly or a training exercise? Pretty hard to get excited over Andy Gray carping on whilst the only sounds that can be heard around the ground are players communicating and the managers shouting?

It's a lot harder to market the "magic of the Premier League" if people stay away from grounds! They may as well be playing on the park.

And anyway, how will the commentators be able to jizz over the LEGENDARY ANFIELD ATMOSPHERE if they have no fans?!!

[Uncle Albert]

You'd think.. Though really, with hardly anyone in the ground and no atmosphere whatsoever, it'd all seem like a friendly or a training exercise? Pretty hard to get excited over Andy Gray carping on whilst the only sounds that can be heard around the ground are players communicating and the managers shouting?

It's a lot harder to market the "magic of the Premier League" if people stay away from grounds! They may as well be playing on the park.

And anyway, how will the commentators be able to jizz over the LEGENDARY ANFIELD ATMOSPHERE if they have no fans?!!

True.

But what an atmosphere Sky get though at Anfield.

[davieG]

What I fail to comprehend is how this pandering to the typical family of 2+2 and letting kids in free or for very little will work in the long run if they then alienate them when they reach 18 until they're 40ish.

It strikes me as complete waste of time money and effort.

On my soap box again but we really do need an area that caters for this group and it needs to be unreserved seating, ST or pay on the gate, no concessions.

I say this knowing it would exclude me but at least I'd get the benefit of attending some atmospheric games, it would also act to unite those vocalists in the Kop and L1 and hopefully spread to and motivate other areas of the stadium to join in.

When that happens, and I can't see it any time soon we might just get a bit of life back into the football stadiums.

[lou]

What I fail to comprehend is how this pandering to the typical family of 2+2 and letting kids in free or for very little will work in the long run if they then alienate them when they reach 18 until they're 40ish.

It strikes me as complete waste of time money and effort.

On my soap box again but we really do need an area that caters for this group and it needs to be unreserved seating, ST or pay on the gate, no concessions.

I say this knowing it would exclude me but at least I'd get the benefit of attending some atmospheric games, it would also act to unite those vocalists in the Kop and L1 and hopefully spread to and motivate other areas of the stadium to join in.

When that happens, and I can't see it any time soon we might just get a bit of life back into the football stadiums.

I wouldnt want my 15 year old daughter excluded.... she likes to stand and sing with the best of em! Maybe keep it to over 14's then?

[davieG]

I wouldnt want my 15 year old daughter excluded.... she likes to stand and sing with the best of em! Maybe keep it to over 14's then?

She could go in she'd just have to pay the full rate

[Sparky]

She could go in she'd just have to pay the full rate

Thats what i used to do early 90s , stand in pen 2 paying full adult price of £7.50 even though i could get in the Family stand for £3 . I really feel for the Kids and youths of today who never experienced Filbo in its prime . No other place id have rather been in those days

[lou]

She could go in she'd just have to pay the full rate

You mean I would

Yeah didnt think of that!

[Daggers]

"Standing" is not an issue of safety, and it is the mistake every advocate of "Safe Standing" makes when discussing the issue with anyone.

For example - comparisons with rugby fans or Take That is farcical and should highlight the actual reason why standing is not permitted at football. Anyone seriously thinking that anything will kick off at the Ricoh tonight is on drugs.

The issue is control because, like it or not, football has a larger number of cunts attending events - and stopping the cunts drink lowers the chance of them doing something a total cunt would do. Likewise, preventing them being mobile also lowers the probability of a display of cuntishness breaking out.

Everyone should appreciate how much in favour of safe standing I am - but we should stop dealing with such bogus issues as crowd safety, it's all a fucking big lie but one which is easy to mobilise braindead support around - just look at all the sage nodding of heads and humming which went on during the recent Liverpool memorial service.

Anyone serious about this should be tackling this as a freedom of choice & increasing atmosphere/revenue issue.

Redesignate L1 a family enclosure, or some such bollocks - lob a decent German-style safe standing terrace in the middle of the Kop and everyone would be happy.

Oh piss, I forgot, we're City aren't we, I'll try again:

Redesignate L1 a family enclosure, or some such bollocks - lob a decent German-style safe standing terrace in the middle of the Kop and everyone would be happy happier with the atmosphere but still a moaning bunch of bastards.

[purpleronnie]

I dont understand why the taylor report is held up like some bible and no-one can question it or change anything.

As well as the end of standing I think the ticket prices have had the biggest effect on the atmosphere, it really has driven out a lot of the fans who we're creating the atmosphere at grounds.

Stewarding of course is another reason but they are just enforcing the stupid rules created by others.

I have no problem with the health & safety rules that were introduced after hillsborough but why do we completely go OTT with them.

I guess the difference between the changes in british football grounds compared with the ones in the rest of the world is 'common sense'.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Keep seating in all areas of all-seated stadia. Allow standing in a controlled area of each stadium, including the back of away allocations. Admit only those with tickets for those areas, as with L1.

That would be a start.

[Guest]

I have no problem with the health & safety rules that were introduced after hillsborough but why do we completely go OTT with them.

I guess the difference between the changes in british football grounds compared with the ones in the rest of the world is 'common sense'.

Like I said, and Daggers has said, the reason for all-seater stadia has little to do with safety concerns over standing, but to do with the ability to control and to identify fans more easily. Standing can be managed safely and efficiently. Many thousands of games have taken place where fans have stood and have done so safely.

[weluv]

we've had the same problem at ER since Bates rolled up. The Gelderd's always been the home end, and we always stand there. But since he made the family area members only, and ramped up the prices of the John Charles Stand (the quiet bit) we've had tossers with kids moving into the gelderd, and to greater effect, the scratching shed. So we've now got a handful of wankers asking people to sit down in the lower Gelderd. They stick out of N7-11, mind you, as they know it's where it's at.

Going to Headingley as often as I do, it annoys me there you can create a good atmosphere on a massive terrace, and that the likes of Wire have new grounds with terracing, but football's not allowed to. Hope the safe standing campaign will achieve its goals and we can put the terracing back on the gelderd, as IMO it's a lot more dangerous to stand in seated areas than it is to stand on a terrace.

[Matt]

Not to do with anything in the original post, but saw this and thought i'd post it as it's fans finally winning over the authority's and being treated badly no doubt 'just because he's a football fan'

Interesting press release from the FSF. Ok, this wasn't a Leicester fan but it shows what can happen and that fans CAN have a say when badly treated.

Stoke City supporter awarded £2,750 compensation following unlawful police action.

Stoke City fan Lyndon Edwards, 38, has been awarded £2,750 in compensation following unlawful police action in Manchester last year.

Greater Manchester Police (GMP) used section 27 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act to round up more than 80 Stoke City fans prior to their club`s Premier League tie with Manchester United match at Old Trafford on Saturday, 15 November, 2008.

Even though Stoke`s fans had been well-behaved - the pub landlord made no complaints and has since invited them back - supporters were detained for up to four hours and forcibly transported by the police back to Stoke-on-Trent on coaches, missing the game.

Deprived of toilet facilities on the coach, Lyndon and his fellow supporters were instructed to urinate into cups, which spilled over the floor of the bus so that they had to sit with urine sloshing around their feet for the 40-mile journey back.

Stoke City fan Lyndon contacted the Football Supporters` Federation (FSF) to complain about his appalling treatment at the hands of the GMP.

The FSF teamed up with civil-rights organisation Liberty and took GMP`s use of section 27 to judicial review. GMP have conceded that the legislation was never intended to be used on large groups of people.

Its original purpose was to target individuals or small groups displaying drunken behaviour - something the police showed no evidence for in this case.

The case has huge implications for all football supporters across England and Wales. The FSF had heard of an increasing number of police forces using this illegal tactic to effectively impose football banning orders at will across entire counties.

In a remarkably similar case South Yorkshire Police has also agreed to compensate Plymouth Argyle fans unjustly served section 27 orders following their team`s visit to Doncaster Rovers on Saturday, 6 December, 2008. The level of compensation is still being negotiated.

Lyndon Edwards, Stoke City fan, said: 'I am very pleased that the GMP has conceded they were in the wrong and satisfied with the compensation awarded. Hopefully the forthcoming judicial review will have a positive outcome for football supporters too and prevent section 27 from being used in this manner again.

'I would like to take this opportunity to thank the FSF and Liberty for all of their hard work and support which has been absolutely vital to a satisfactory outcome.'

'I`d also like to thank Stoke City who offered to underwrite £20,000 of Lyndon`s legal costs, great credit should go to both Tony Scholes and Peter Coates at Stoke.'

Malcolm Clarke, chair of the FSF, said: 'We are delighted that as a result of the FSF and Liberty Stoke fans who suffered this appalling treatment are now receiving financial compensation. Police need to think very carefully in future before ever using this legislation inappropriately on football supporters ever again.

'This is an important victory for football fans everywhere - not just those at Stoke City. We were of hearing more and more similar cases from fans across the country but since Lyndon`s case went to court these seem to have stopped.'

'I`d also like to thank Stoke City who offered to underwrite £20,000 of Lyndon`s legal costs, great credit should go to both Tony Scholes and Peter Coates at Stoke.'

James Welch, legal director at Liberty, said: 'This is yet another example of overly broad powers being used inappropriately. If you give the police powers that are not tightly defined, they are going to abuse them. Congratulations to the FSF for raising this important issue.'

http://www.leicester.vitalfootball.co.uk/a...le.asp?a=157400

[davieG]

Not to do with anything in the original post, but saw this and thought i'd post it as it's fans finally winning over the authority's and being treated badly no doubt 'just because he's a football fan'

http://www.leicester.vitalfootball.co.uk/a...le.asp?a=157400

http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=60651

The guy that writes the leicester.vital stuff posts on here and probably got it from here.