Was Jesus born on 9/11?

[jonno24]

So I can't write you a letter and date it 1984, that would be very easy to do......These texts only need to be out a month and it's not relevant proof nor is it a first hand account.

Even priests lie......surely you know that espcially to derive some benifit. That benifit surely being if people didn't believe in there religion what would they live for.

All this proof seems to be very cloudy and to have been "found" by relgious worshipers that more than likely spent most of there life trying to make people believe and worship god that need to believe that there is some almighty that powers there life.

Sorry El Empty but i'm finding it hard to believe that all this exsists. But each to there own and it certaintly isn't my place to say you believe in blind faith

I agree with this i personally believe that religion was a mass produced hysteria kind of event that has wriggled its way into the worlds mind and in most corners of the world is taken as fact.

Religion and the idea of god to me is untrue and i feel that we as a human race are incapable of understanding why we really sprouted up on this planet and are constantly trying to justify it by saying it must be god or some sort of creator.

The fact of the matter is we dont know why we are here so i am quite happy to live in ignorance until the day that science proves the real reason we exist

[Edmund]

I agree with this i personally believe that religion was a mass produced hysteria kind of event that has wriggled its way into the worlds mind and in most corners of the world is taken as fact.

Religion and the idea of god to me is untrue and i feel that we as a human race are incapable of understanding why we really sprouted up on this planet and are constantly trying to justify it by saying it must be god or some sort of creator.

The fact of the matter is we dont know why we are here so i am quite happy to live in ignorance until the day that science proves the real reason we exist

Most sensible comment in this thread.

Im a believer in multiverse and parallel worlds but I wont go into to much as people will think im a nut.

Places where the law of physics is so different that we are not aware.

Another thing which is quite possible is our universe is actually one of many universes just like we have galaxies. Makes us so insignificant if you think of it that way.

[Edmund]

[jonno24]

Most sensible comment in this thread.

Im a believer in multiverse and parallel worlds but I wont go into to much as people will think im a nut.

Places where the law of physics is so different that we are not aware.

Another thing which is quite possible is our universe is actually one of many universes just like we have galaxies. Makes us so insignificant if you think of it that way.

This whole idea of parralel worlds fascinates me i know where your coming from with the multiverse thing i can only explain it by asking everyone when there in the pub having a pint look at the bubbles in your pint of lager and that is the multiverse theory.

it says that we are one of those bubbles that is floating in space and other dimensions are constantly knocking into us or even in some cases merge with us. Also they say that we are only 3mm away from another dimension but as of yet we havnt the technology to break thru that barrier.

[Edmund]

This whole idea of parralel worlds fascinates me i know where your coming from with the multiverse thing i can only explain it by asking everyone when there in the pub having a pint look at the bubbles in your pint of lager and that is the multiverse theory.

it says that we are one of those bubbles that is floating in space and other dimensions are constantly knocking into us or even in some cases merge with us. Also they say that we are only 3mm away from another dimension but as of yet we havnt the technology to break thru that barrier.

It is definitely very fascinating and what surprises me so much is that people are so blinded in a materialistic world that they don't even know much about this subject and the universe in general that your passed of as a geek or science nut if brought up.

Most people don't even realise how far a star is from the earth.

I like your pint theory by the way simple yet to the point

It also touches on what you mentioned in your other post that we as humans are not able to comprehend how the universe works and if we ever will.

Have you ever read anything by this guy Michio Kaku.

He has a couple a books out on the whole subject and string theory.

[jonno24]

It is definitely very fascinating and what surprises me so much is that people are so blinded in a materialistic world that they don't even know much about this subject and the universe in general that your passed of as a geek or science nut if brought up.

Most people don't even realise how far a star is from the earth.

I like your pint theory by the way simple yet to the point

It also touches on what you mentioned in your other post that we as humans are not able to comprehend how the universe works and if we ever will.

Have you ever read anything by this guy Michio Kaku.

He has a couple a books out on the whole subject and string theory.

i have heard of this guy and have seen various programmes with him explaining string theory and m theory he was on a programme once when he said he was close to proving that when certain things happen on earth it is caused by parralel dimensions.

he was also working on a theory that gravity is another dimension pushing down on us it blows the mind it really does.

also we shouldnt think parralel worlds and parralel dimensions are the same they are completely different things

[BoneDog]

All this proof seems to be very cloudy and to have been "found" by relgious worshipers that more than likely spent most of there life trying to make people believe and worship god that need to believe that there is some almighty that powers there life.

Sorry El Empty but i'm finding it hard to believe that all this exsists. But each to there own and it certaintly isn't my place to say you believe in blind faith

A good majority of archeaologists are not religious, they are just very interested in history. And the people who examine and date the archeaological finds are not all religious either.

[BoneDog]

I agree with this i personally believe that religion was a mass produced hysteria kind of event that has wriggled its way into the worlds mind and in most corners of the world is taken as fact.

Religion and the idea of god to me is untrue and i feel that we as a human race are incapable of understanding why we really sprouted up on this planet and are constantly trying to justify it by saying it must be god or some sort of creator.

The fact of the matter is we dont know why we are here so i am quite happy to live in ignorance until the day that science proves the real reason we exist

I agree totally that we don't know how or why. But I don't think science will ever know either. Science will always find some answers, but there will always be more questions and it will be never ending until our world comes to an end.

[BoneDog]

Most sensible comment in this thread.

Im a believer in multiverse and parallel worlds but I wont go into to much as people will think im a nut.

Places where the law of physics is so different that we are not aware.

Another thing which is quite possible is our universe is actually one of many universes just like we have galaxies. Makes us so insignificant if you think of it that way.

I wouldn't think you're a nut! It's obvious that there are parallel worlds. Human beings can only see and hear on a very small frequency range, and there is a massive frequency level that we can't tune into. Even dogs and other animals can see or hear other frequencies that we can't.

These parallel places are from where 'demons' or 'jinns' manifest from. And the top black magic folk can draw them in with certain rituals. There is plenty of unseen out there always around us. The only reason we can't see is because of our limited range of frequency. It's minute.

[BoneDog]

Jehst and Jonno24,

You both say you believe in unseen life, so how could you find it hard to believe that there is a higher power that exists too? Believing in unseen parallel worlds is just as unproven or 'wacky' as believing that something magnificent created everything. I'm not having a dig cos I believe in both, just saying that you seem to think the idea of a high power in the universe is unreal, yet you believe that there are unseen worlds around us.

Some of these unseen worlds are where we will all be headed after this life Most of em are better than this world, but there is worse, obviously depending on if you been raping, maiming or killing other lifeforms this time round

[Guest]

A good majority of archeaologists are not religious, they are just very interested in history. And the people who examine and date the archeaological finds are not all religious either.

It's not always clear what a lot of archaeological finds are, or who exactly used them. There's a fair bit of guess work that goes into things. For example, Stonehenge is a temple, a calendar, and more recently a place to worship ancestors.

[BoneDog]

It's not always clear what a lot of archaeological finds are, or who exactly used them. There's a fair bit of guess work that goes into things. For example, Stonehenge is a temple, a calendar, and more recently a place to worship ancestors.

Yes, there is defo guess work there, but Stonehenge is not a written text, it is a monument. They know the rough time it was built, and certain people know exactly what it was used for. There were many mass graves there, and not normal burials, mass graves where bodies were piled up.

I was referring to the archeaologists and geologists who have worked on finding evidence of the flood in Mesopatamia and how they were not religious people doing it for proof of their faith. I can post names of these people and dates of the works, I'm not making it up. There is proof of a massive flood that wiped out a number of cities 5000 years ago. And this is the story that went around the world about the great flood. (imagine if New York, Washington and Boston all got wiped out by a massive flood now, the tale would live on for thousands of years).

EDIT : Or maybe I was on about the evidence of certain historical figures. This evidence is more conclusive than Stonehenge as it is written words which are obviously easy to interpret. We have written texts from Babylon or Ancient Egypt and we don't question the validity of them, so I can't see why we should question texts from much nearer our time

[The Doctor]

another joker who thinks that the man called Jesus of Nazareth never existed!! It's hilarious. Do you think Solomon or Moses were invented aswell (who, incidentally, lived before the time of Jesus) !! The great Solomon.

everbody in the bible is the invention of christian marketing men and NOT REAL

[Guest]

Yes, there is defo guess work there, but Stonehenge is not a written text, it is a monument. They know the rough time it was built, and certain people know exactly what it was used for. There were many mass graves there, and not normal burials, mass graves where bodies were piled up.

I was referring to the archeaologists and geologists who have worked on finding evidence of the flood in Mesopatamia and how they were not religious people doing it for proof of their faith. I can post names of these people and dates of the works, I'm not making it up. There is proof of a massive flood that wiped out a number of cities 5000 years ago. And this is the story that went around the world about the great flood. (imagine if New York, Washington and Boston all got wiped out by a massive flood now, the tale would live on for thousands of years)

I'm not saying that things didn't happen, I'm suggesting that there are those who are happy to fit archaeological findings around what is written in the Bible.

The flood is mentioned in Greek stories as well, but it's given a different explanation. My personal belief is that religion was a way of explaining the unexplainable. Over time, religion also became a method of suppressing the mass populace. The power that the churches had in historical time suggest this to be the case, and it's dwindling status since science has been able to explain things further cements this for me.

I also don't doubt that characters like Jesus or Moses existed, but I don't believe the Bible to be the gospel truth (excusing the pun) just because it is written down. If you believe that it is, then you must believe everything that is written in the papers to be true, and the number of libel cases show that this is not the case. Most of the Old Testament was written long after the event, and it shows. Men living 700+ years? Flaming chariots? It's just a collection of stories to me, twisted to frighten people into conforming to a form of society for the benefit of a few powerful leaders. For someone big into conspiracy theories, especially ones involving governments, I am very surprised that you don't take this view when it comes to religion.

[MC Prussian]

Jesus wasn't born, he was miraculously conceived...

That's what happens when the Divine fondles with women... Pfft.

[The Doctor]

So you believe that Noah builit an Ark and got one or two of every animal on it..........and they didn't attack each other?

Must have been one hell of an Ark.

it wasn't an ark it was a floating zoo. and bearing in mind that the human race is still discovering several new species a year i doubt a pre-historic man with a mental disorder causing him to hear the voice of "god" could find every animal, load them onto a boat sail around for 40 days and then land and hide all of the animals for the human race to discover again when the leprachauns saved all of the human race because they were unhappy at being left behind

[The Doctor]

I'm not talking about God though. I'm only talking about Jesus the man. And it is beyond doubt that he existed. Just like we have proof about men who lived 3000 years before Jesus (pharoahs as an example). We have evidence because of records of their lives, written by them and others at the time. It's the same with Jesus who was not long ago. We have writings from the Emporors of the time and thousands more credible accounts from folk in that region at the time.

however these can easily be forged or they could be ancient examples of wikipedia or football rumours. besides these people believed that the earth is the centre of the universe, that the dead could fly into up to heaven without the help of "the giant silver birds" and that the reason the sun moved across the sky was because god was spinning it on his finger like a basketball while rollerskating

(okay i made that last one up)

[Guest Bilo]

The flood is mentioned in Greek stories as well, but it's given a different explanation. My personal belief is that religion was a way of explaining the unexplainable. Over time, religion also became a method of suppressing the mass populace. The power that the churches had in historical time suggest this to be the case, and it's dwindling status since science has been able to explain things further cements this for me.

I also don't doubt that characters like Jesus or Moses existed, but I don't believe the Bible to be the gospel truth (excusing the pun) just because it is written down. If you believe that it is, then you must believe everything that is written in the papers to be true, and the number of libel cases show that this is not the case. Most of the Old Testament was written long after the event, and it shows. Men living 700+ years? Flaming chariots? It's just a collection of stories to me, twisted to frighten people into conforming to a form of society for the benefit of a few powerful leaders. For someone big into conspiracy theories, especially ones involving governments, I am very surprised that you don't take this view when it comes to religion.

This post pretty much sums up my views on religion perfectly. The more science can explain, the less relevant religion becomes. I find it extraordinary that people believe that something that cannot be explained by 2000 or more years of scientific research, employing some of the greatest brains that this planet has ever seen, can somehow be explained by a book written by long-dead fishermen and carpenters (one that has also been modified countless times over the centuries.)

[davieG]

This post pretty much sums up my views on religion perfectly. The more science can explain, the less relevant religion becomes. I find it extraordinary that people believe that something that cannot be explained by 2000 or more years of scientific research, employing some of the greatest brains that this planet has ever seen, can somehow be explained by a book written by long-dead fishermen and carpenters (one that has also been modified countless times over the centuries.)

Ah but the one's that El believes in are pure and have never been altered they are written by prophets that had a direct line to some almighty being.

The way I see it is if you want to believe in a sole creator of the universe that's fine it can't be proved or disproved but believe it because you think it's an option not because some people many moons ago wrote the idea down.

[Edmund]

Jehst and Jonno24,

You both say you believe in unseen life, so how could you find it hard to believe that there is a higher power that exists too? Believing in unseen parallel worlds is just as unproven or 'wacky' as believing that something magnificent created everything. I'm not having a dig cos I believe in both, just saying that you seem to think the idea of a high power in the universe is unreal, yet you believe that there are unseen worlds around us.

Ive never once stated that I don't believe there is a higher power that exists. What I have said is that I don't believe this so called high power is a man with a fluffy beard who lives in the clouds called god/allah whatever you want to call him.

The difference between my beliefs and the bible is I base my beliefs on facts which are proven by scientists not just a story book which was written years ago. Yes parallel worlds and what not aren't fact yet or any proof but there is a lot more logical arguments to prove that there is more chance of this than the religious route of heaven and hell.

We are a species based on logic and saying that a book written all those years ago sums up the key to life is not logical. Out of all the people on here empty Im surprised the most you are religious. You bang on about these conspiracy theories which are carried out by people in power yet you are naive to believe that Noah the ark was real. It seems blindly obvious that religion has always been around as strongly as it has because it gives people a sense of security even if it may be false and also helps to maintain society in a lawful way to a certain extent. So its not all bad.

Some of these unseen worlds are where we will all be headed after this life Most of em are better than this world, but there is worse, obviously depending on if you been raping, maiming or killing other lifeforms this time round

See you say this but there is no facts that there is heaven and hell. Youve been brainwashed in your own right that after you die you will go to another world.

I think your getting mixed up between parallel universes and heaven and hell. When I mention parallel universes Im not talking about afterlife's or anything like that. In fact I couldn't tell you what they are as there is no fact just speculation and im not going to start listing all the examples or the looney police will be knocking at my door ready to section me

People get to wrapped up about life on earth when in reality we are nothing, not even a biscuit crumb if you look at the universe in perspective.

You need to broaden your horizons empty and not just accept what your told and look at the bigger picture.

Like you said we will never probably know how space works and scientists have admitted that but it wont stop them from pursuing and learning as much information as possible as you never know where this will lead. I think we as humans are not intelligent enough to ever find out the question everyone wants to know just like a dog doesn't understand how to pay a mortgage

I think we will reach our plateau of understanding but at present we are far from that.

Hopefully in our lifetime we will discover other life forms in our own universe yet alone others.

It is amazing really when you look at the sky at night and put things into perspective (especially when stoned ), but I think religion restricts people in digesting the thought of the beauty of life and all things around us and having a little freedom to think and speculate. We were born with brains use them.

[Guest]

This post pretty much sums up my views on religion perfectly. The more science can explain, the less relevant religion becomes. I find it extraordinary that people believe that something that cannot be explained by 2000 or more years of scientific research, employing some of the greatest brains that this planet has ever seen, can somehow be explained by a book written by long-dead fishermen and carpenters (one that has also been modified countless times over the centuries.)

Ah but the one's that El believes in are pure and have never been altered they are written by prophets that had a direct line to some almighty being.

The way I see it is if you want to believe in a sole creator of the universe that's fine it can't be proved or disproved but believe it because you think it's an option not because some people many moons ago wrote the idea down.

There still is a place in modern society for religion. I personally don't subscribe to it, but I do know that faith of some sort has been beneficial for people that I know, especially during times of crisis or grief. It has given them some hope to cling onto, or it gives them comfort and/or support. Some of the more modern thinking churches see themselves as counsellors and role models, and I had to go to a christening at one such church, and was surprised by the lack of religious content in the service. In fact, it was full of practical advice, if anything! It still isn't my cup of tea, but I respect those who do want to follow this path, just as long as they respect my lack of faith.

[davieG]

I wonder if God's other species on this earth have similar conversations amongst themselves, it seems a tad arrogant to think that if this God is responsible for all the species that exist that he singled out the human one to have special facilities arranged for when they died.

[Edmund]

There still is a place in modern society for religion. I personally don't subscribe to it, but I do know that faith of some sort has been beneficial for people that I know, especially during times of crisis or grief. It has given them some hope to cling onto, or it gives them comfort and/or support.

Exactly. You could say it is like an unwritten law and does benefit society in its own right. But still if you look over history and still today, religion has caused just as much evil as good.

[davieG]

Exactly. You could say it is like an unwritten law and does benefit society in its own right. But still if you look over history and still today, religion has caused just as much evil as good.

That wasn't religion that was people using religion like modern day world leaders and anti religious people, real religious people wouldn't do those things, well I'm sure that's the sort of response we can expect from El Empty

PS is that name telling us something, I wouldn't have thought El Empty would believe that Hell was that empty!

Not the real Spanish Inquisitors

[The Doctor]

Exactly. You could say it is like an unwritten law and does benefit society in its own right. But still if you look over history and still today, religion has caused just as much evil as good.

in all honesty i think it has actually done more harm than good, for instance these so called "honour" killings, some terrorism, wars, persecutions of others (E.g. Northern Ireland), oppresion of opinions (more middle of last millenium than now but still), murder, insest the list goes on.

addmittedly it has brought some peace across the globe and it does help people find inspiration to do their best at whatever they are doing but i don't think this by any means covers the actions i've already mentioned.