Was Jesus born on 9/11?

[Edmund]

Was Noahs Ark real?

[BoneDog]

Hilarious isn't it.

Yes it is hilarious how people don't understand what I say. Could be my fault for not being articulate enough though. But I have already replied to DavieG about the parts I believe are real in the Bible. And the evidence is there to say that they were from the time. So laugh about it, but Davies statement was wrong

[BoneDog]

Was Noahs Ark real?

For sure, and there is plenty of evidence about that aswell. The great flood story has been changed over the years of course.

But many archeaologists in the past 100 years have worked on this flood story. It didn't cover the whole world, it only covered an area in and around Mesopatamia. A massive area though where the oldest civilisations known to history lived.

Did you know that in many countries they have ancient accounts of this event. From countries like Wales to Denmark, they all heard about this from travellers in ancient times. Records of this event have been found in Sumerian and Assyrian-Babylonian records, in Greek legends and in the Nordic Edda, and many more.

It's too big a story to debate and I'll only get slated for it, but like I say, many archeaologists have worked on this for 100 years and have found the geological and archeaological evidence for this great catastrophe that took place all of a sudden around maybe 3000bc.

In the Mesopotamian cities of Ur, Erech, Kish and Shuruppak (the most important cities then) excavations have found that a major flood took place around 3000bc and that all four cities were destroyed in the same period by flood. Geological evidence proves this. That's all I sayin! I could go on though

[SOCCERROO FOX]

another joker who thinks that the man called Jesus of Nazareth never existed!! It's hilarious. Do you think Solomon or Moses were invented aswell (who, incidentally, lived before the time of Jesus) !! The great Solomon.

There is not 100% proof Jesus or God actually did exsist, so you can hardly call him a joker.

[BoneDog]

Was Noahs Ark real?

Not the only one either, there's plenty more! Noah, Abraham, David, Job, Joseph (not Mary's supposed companion but the Prophet Joseph), Lot, Jacob, they all existed. Many more but I'll only end up writing an essay if I carry on.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

For sure, and there is plenty of evidence about that aswell. The great flood story has been changed over the years of course.

So you believe that Noah builit an Ark and got one or two of every animal on it..........and they didn't attack each other?

Must have been one hell of an Ark.

[BoneDog]

There is not 100% proof Jesus or God actually did exsist, so you can hardly call him a joker.

I'm not talking about God though. I'm only talking about Jesus the man. And it is beyond doubt that he existed. Just like we have proof about men who lived 3000 years before Jesus (pharoahs as an example). We have evidence because of records of their lives, written by them and others at the time. It's the same with Jesus who was not long ago. We have writings from the Emporors of the time and thousands more credible accounts from folk in that region at the time.

[BoneDog]

I couldn't give two s**ts either. we celebrate (and by celebrate i mean eat until we burst) christmas on the 25th of december so who cares when the fictional character who the celebration is for was actually invented by wankers trying to force us to believe what they believe born

I'm curious as to who these wankers who actually supposedly invented Jesus were?

You are right in a way. 325 years after Jesus died, some powerful 'wankers' did try to force us to believe what they wanted us to believe by changing the religion of Christianity so so much. They changed evrything, but not to help, just to control.

[Flynny]

I'm not talking about God though. I'm only talking about Jesus the man. And it is beyond doubt that he existed. Just like we have proof about men who lived 3000 years before Jesus (pharoahs as an example). We have evidence because of records of their lives, written by them and others at the time. It's the same with Jesus who was not long ago. We have writings from the Emporors of the time and thousands more credible accounts from folk in that region at the time.

So long as you're not talking about Josephus here.

The fact that there are flood myths in most cultures proves only that:

1. Lots of places have floods.

2. Religions borrow huge chunks from each other, as with Horus, Jesus, and the many similar figures in world religions past and present. I doubt you'd suggest that this is proof that a man genuinely was raised from the dead.

[BoneDog]

So you believe that Noah builit an Ark and got one or two of every animal on it..........and they didn't attack each other?

Must have been one hell of an Ark.

Yes I know the Ark was real. But no he never took a pair of every animal on it. I did say that the story has been changed.

I'm not making it up you know about the geological and archeaological evidence for this massive flood that wiped out whole cities. The evidence has been collected over decades by groundwork.

[l444ry]

The written words i choose to believe are ones that scholars have proved to have been there before 325a.d and The First Council of Nicaea. The ones I don't believe (and for good obvious reason) are the additions that have been made in the last 1600 years. If a person chooses to follow Jesus then this is the way to go. Follow Jesus' words and not the ones changed and added by corrupt secretive regimes since Jesus' death.

So, yes, I do dismiss some of the verses, cos I believe the historians and scholars who have said that these verses never used to exist in the Gospels.

The New Testament was written from about A.D. 50 to A.D. 90. The earliest fragment dates about A.D. 120, with about 50 other fragments dating within 150-200 years from the time of composition.

Two major manuscripts, Codex Vaticanus (A.D. 325) and Codex Sinaiticus (A.D. 350), a complete copy, date within 250 years of the time of composition.

When these two old manuscripts agree word-for-word (especially when they're also verified by several other of the oldest and best papyrus copies), there is virtually no doubt that the correct wording of the original text has been preserved and handed down.

In short, the biblical text today is 95% accurate from the original and the remaining 5% have no bearing on doctrine.

God only knows where you come up with whole verses being changed or amended, Empty!!! Perhaps you could enlighten me.

[davieG]

The written words i choose to believe are ones that scholars have proved to have been there before 325a.d and The First Council of Nicaea. The ones I don't believe (and for good obvious reason) are the additions that have been made in the last 1600 years. If a person chooses to follow Jesus then this is the way to go. Follow Jesus' words and not the ones changed and added by corrupt secretive regimes since Jesus' death.

So, yes, I do dismiss some of the verses, cos I believe the historians and scholars who have said that these verses never used to exist in the Gospels.

Still written by man, still no proof they weren't altered to suit the person(s) writing them.

If they are the word of God why did he choose that language or the person that only spoke that language, there were plenty of others around, in fact why did he choose any language if he was so almighty to have created the universe why didn't he come up with a better more clever way of passing on his message?

No one can say with any certainty what happened so long ago. All history is the result of written or word of mouth reports and therefore subject to human interpretation. How you can believe otherwise is beyond belief, if you and other religious believers had a little humility, even though you might believe in it all you'd accept that it just might not be the whole truth.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

I'm not talking about God though. I'm only talking about Jesus the man. And it is beyond doubt that he existed. Just like we have proof about men who lived 3000 years before Jesus (pharoahs as an example). We have evidence because of records of their lives, written by them and others at the time. It's the same with Jesus who was not long ago. We have writings from the Emporors of the time and thousands more credible accounts from folk in that region at the time.

Stories get told from time to time and over time the truth becomes very cloudy the older the stories get the more the story gets told the way people want them to get told.

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story"

Not trying to have a go at you or your relgion El Empty but what i'm trying to say is that with out Categorical proof you can hardly have a go at people for questioing the exsistense of Jesus.

[davieG]

The New Testament was written from about A.D. 50 to A.D. 90. The earliest fragment dates about A.D. 120, with about 50 other fragments dating within 150-200 years from the time of composition.

Two major manuscripts, Codex Vaticanus (A.D. 325) and Codex Sinaiticus (A.D. 350), a complete copy, date within 250 years of the time of composition.

When these two old manuscripts agree word-for-word (especially when they're also verified by several other of the oldest and best papyrus copies), there is virtually no doubt that the correct wording of the original text has been preserved and handed down.

In short, the biblical text today is 95% accurate from the original and the remaining 5% have no bearing on doctrine.

God only knows where you come up with whole verses being changed or amended, Empty!!! Perhaps you could enlighten me.

But he's very selective over which ones have and haven't been altered anything to reinforce his and others beliefs.

[BoneDog]

So long as you're not talking about Josephus here.

The fact that there are flood myths in most cultures proves only that:

1. Lots of places have floods.

2. Religions borrow huge chunks from each other, as with Horus, Jesus, and the many similar figures in world religions past and present. I doubt you'd suggest that this is proof that a man genuinely was raised from the dead.

This is not a flood myth. Mesopotamia around 3000bc there was a MASSIVE flood that wiped out whole cities all in one go. This is where this flood story comes from. This is the place that the great man Noah was from. Simple and proven fact, not El Emptys made up stories.

Correct, Jesus wasn't raised from the dead. I would of thought by now it's obvious what I have been saying for about 2 months! The Book and stories have been changed so many times (this is not conspiracy, it's frickin fact).

[BoneDog]

Stories get told from time to time and over time the truth becomes very cloudy the older the stories get the more the story gets told the way people want them to get told.

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story"

Not trying to have a go at you or your relgion El Empty but what i'm trying to say is that with out Categorical proof you can hardly have a go at people for questioing the exsistense of Jesus.

I wasn't trying to have a go, but I thought his post might of been having a go at me, that's why I said joker.

[BoneDog]

This is to L444ry and DavieG.

Try and take this in, cos this is what I believe. Then you'll know for future

Jesus only brought The Gospels. ONLY. Not the New Testament. The New Testament is written by men since Jesus' death, you are correct about that. The Gospels were a set of teachings that Jesus said mankind should follow and live their life by to make a better society. These Gospels have been nearly totally lost and changed. Hardly anything in the New Testament is from The Gospel that Jesus brought.

I do believe that some of Jesus' words are still in the New Testament, but not many. I tend to think that the oldest proven ones left where Jesus doesn't claim to be God are real. I know that Jesus never said he was God, he said he was a Prophet of God.

This is why when people talk to me about religion they shouldn't bother talking about God being a man or all that cos I don't believe it. I believe in an unseen power that is behind the working or control of the universe, and that no human being could ever know what that power is.

[BoneDog]

Stories get told from time to time and over time the truth becomes very cloudy the older the stories get the more the story gets told the way people want them to get told.

I agree with this, but there are many old texts that have survived, and these are the ones that I trust. Yes, stories get changed over the years, but original documents and texts from 1900-2000 years ago have not been changed and they still exist.

[BoneDog]

The New Testament was written from about A.D. 50 to A.D. 90. The earliest fragment dates about A.D. 120, with about 50 other fragments dating within 150-200 years from the time of composition.

Two major manuscripts, Codex Vaticanus (A.D. 325) and Codex Sinaiticus (A.D. 350), a complete copy, date within 250 years of the time of composition.

When these two old manuscripts agree word-for-word (especially when they're also verified by several other of the oldest and best papyrus copies), there is virtually no doubt that the correct wording of the original text has been preserved and handed down.

In short, the biblical text today is 95% accurate from the original and the remaining 5% have no bearing on doctrine.

God only knows where you come up with whole verses being changed or amended, Empty!!! Perhaps you could enlighten me.

I could do but It'll take me some time and it will be a big frickin post! I'll have to go through my books and dvds to make sure I'm posting correct cos I not read about this for ages.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

I agree with this, but there are many old texts that have survived, and these are the ones that I trust. Yes, stories get changed over the years, but original documents and texts from 1900-2000 years ago have not been changed and they still exist.

I Didn't know they had mobile phones back in those days

These text's tho how can you be so sure the they are 100% accurate and are from people that were there and around that exact time?

For all we know these guys could of been the equvilent of Ian Holloway or Dennis Wise........full of shit.

[BoneDog]

Religions borrow huge chunks from each other, as with Horus, Jesus, and the many similar figures in world religions past and present. I doubt you'd suggest that this is proof that a man genuinely was raised from the dead.

Correct, the similarities attributed to these two are beyond coincidence.

We got to remember though that it wasn't Jesus who said he was born on Dec 25th (the same as Horus), it was The Council of Nicaea who gave Jesus that birthday and decided that the sabbath should be SUNday. This is the crew who have their big sun worship day every year around Dec 25th when the 3 big stars are in alignment to where the sun rises that morning.

Jesus borrowed nothing, he brought simple advice for a better way of life and got persecuted for it by the corrupt bastards at the time, who didn't want people changing.

[Collymore]

no

[BoneDog]

Still written by man, still no proof they weren't altered to suit the person(s) writing them.

If they are the word of God why did he choose that language or the person that only spoke that language, there were plenty of others around, in fact why did he choose any language if he was so almighty to have created the universe why didn't he come up with a better more clever way of passing on his message?

No one can say with any certainty what happened so long ago. All history is the result of written or word of mouth reports and therefore subject to human interpretation. How you can believe otherwise is beyond belief, if you and other religious believers had a little humility, even though you might believe in it all you'd accept that it just might not be the whole truth.

ok I've got no humility! And I do accept that none of us know the whole truth. All I know is that there is some intelligence somewhere that is more powerful than any of us. That's all.

As for the language arguement, every nation over the years had a Prophet who brought exactly the same message to the people. Unfortunatly, every Prophet got persecuted by the leaders of the time and the message has been hard to find. But it is still there for anyone who looks hard enough. But I know Dave, that most people don't care about anything like that, which is fair enough.

I don't try and convert anyone, all I do is try to tell people that the perception of true religion is wrong.

Your perception of God is wrong too. But this is often the case. You say "why didn't God do this or that if He's so great"! An exclamtion mark is all I can put for that.

P.S are you the same Davie that used to go to the climbing club in Burton on Trent in the 80's or late 70's?

[BoneDog]

I Didn't know they had mobile phones back in those days

These text's tho how can you be so sure the they are 100% accurate and are from people that were there and around that exact time?

For all we know these guys could of been the equvilent of Ian Holloway or Dennis Wise........full of shit.

For the texts, all i can say is that they have been dated and if the dating method works then the date is correct. As for the validity of the writer, alot of texts come from records of Emporors or Kings, Priests etc. These people used to have seals on their writings as we have letterheads today. Alot of them can be proved to be written by certain poeple.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

For the texts, all i can say is that they have been dated and if the dating method works then the date is correct. As for the validity of the writer, alot of texts come from records of Emporors or Kings, Priests etc. These people used to have seals on their writings as we have letterheads today. Alot of them can be proved to be written by certain poeple.

So I can't write you a letter and date it 1984, that would be very easy to do......These texts only need to be out a month and it's not relevant proof nor is it a first hand account.

Even priests lie......surely you know that espcially to derive some benifit. That benifit surely being if people didn't believe in there religion what would they live for.

All this proof seems to be very cloudy and to have been "found" by relgious worshipers that more than likely spent most of there life trying to make people believe and worship god that need to believe that there is some almighty that powers there life.

Sorry El Empty but i'm finding it hard to believe that all this exsists. But each to there own and it certaintly isn't my place to say you believe in blind faith