BoneDog Posted 21 July 2009 Posted 21 July 2009 December the 25th was the date the Romans held for their Saturnalia, the worship of the Sun God, Saturn, more commonly known to them as Sol. They held feasts in his honour, and gave one another presents.This date was then selected by the Christians, as the official birth date of Christ. The tradition of feasting ( now Christmas dinner ), and the giving of presents, have remained ever since. Hence a pagan festival was turned into a religious one! It wasn't exactly chosen by Christians. It was chosen by some Roman leaders I think and a few other powerful people at The Council of Nicasea in 325a.d They decided and not for good reasons either. They did alot worse things on these sun worship days than give eachother presents and have a party.
Uncle Albert Posted 21 July 2009 Posted 21 July 2009 It doesn't matter what day he is born, Santa ain't changing his schedule for no-one!!!
BoneDog Posted 21 July 2009 Posted 21 July 2009 It is possible that there was a man named jesus around at the time people say he lived but he was no son of god but in my opinion just a normal man who was very enlightned. It's not possible that Jesus existed, it's certain. Just like we are certain of Pharoahs and other people who we know existed up to 5000 years ago, it is not even a debate if Jesus existed or not. The evidence is there. It wasn't long ago he walked this earth. 20 people who live to 100 years old, that's how little time has passed since then. I agree that he wasn't the literal son of God, he was just a man, but he never said he was the son of God. Some dodgy Kings and priests have changed his words and pretend he said that when they re-wrote the Gospels. Jesus actually said "I am just a man, do not worship me, but worship He who Created you". Christians should follow Jesus and behave like he did and not worship him. Jesus used to pray to God and ask for help, he wasn't God himself. He was the greatest man of the time and that is why the leaders of the region persecuted him.
Edmund Posted 21 July 2009 Posted 21 July 2009 It's not possible that Jesus existed, it's certain. Just like we are certain of Pharoahs and other people who we know existed up to 5000 years ago, it is not even a debate if Jesus existed or not. The evidence is there. It wasn't long ago he walked this earth. 20 people who live to 100 years old, that's how little time has passed since then.I agree that he wasn't the literal son of God, he was just a man, but he never said he was the son of God. Some dodgy Kings and priests have changed his words and pretend he said that when they re-wrote the Gospels. Jesus actually said "I am just a man, do not worship me, but worship He who Created you". Christians should follow Jesus and behave like he did and not worship him. Jesus used to pray to God and ask for help, he wasn't God himself. He was the greatest man of the time and that is why the leaders of the region persecuted him. Jesus was the David Blaine of that time. He was a highly skilled magician. In those days if you had the skill of a magician people would put it down to mysterious forces hence why people thought he was the son of god. Empty you have to realise they weren't as educated as well as we are now. They use to think that the moon and sun were gods also which we now know is not the case.
BoneDog Posted 21 July 2009 Posted 21 July 2009 and for people who genuinely believe that there is a god and he will be back and the rapture is coming soon watch the film Religulous Bill Maher a comedian from america scours the world trying to establish why people believe in god or religion in general.He goes about it in the common sense way most people who believe in god dont seem to have But if you believe in god and any religion that is your right but because i dont doesnt mean i think your some sort of nutcase Yes, the rapture is a stupid made up concept. But believing in that crap doesn't mean that all people who believe that there is something more powerful than us out there is a loon. Alot of the worlds greatest ever minds believed in God. That Bill Maher film is ridiculous! All he did was interview alot of nut-jobs who don't even understand their own religion. Here's a review of it that I think talks sense : " Bill Maher attempts to tell us why we don't need God in a documentary exploring the worlds major religions. Along the way he reveals why we don't need a film like this. Smug, patronising and questionably edited, it's a film that already has a clever answer for every question it asks. It's comprised of the comedian talking to the camera about the history of belief, plus interviews with some of religions more colourful - although hardly representative - figures, including a theme park Jesus, a homosexual 'cured' by prayer and a man who believes God can be reached by smoking pot. With subjects this kooky, there's little time for a meaningful debate about faith with the editing suggesting anything that didn't suit Mahers purpose has been chopped out. It's not an exploration, it's a smart-arse going into situations just to confirm his own prejudices. " But if anyone believes that there isn't a powerful force somewhere in or outside of the universe that caused everything to come into place, that's their right. Or if people want to believe that the whole universe and all the living creatures just appeared from nowhere, and I believe otherwise, it doesn't mean that I think you're all crazy nutters.
ob1kanobe0 Posted 21 July 2009 Author Posted 21 July 2009 It's not possible that Jesus existed, it's certain. Just like we are certain of Pharoahs and other people who we know existed up to 5000 years ago, it is not even a debate if Jesus existed or not. The evidence is there. It wasn't long ago he walked this earth. 20 people who live to 100 years old, that's how little time has passed since then. Everything we're told, is passed on by repeaters. Repeaters are not necessarilly teachers of fact. Even teachers are taught and told what to say be repeaters, who teach. Fact is, no one know's whether they know who/what Jesus was if he existed at all.
BoneDog Posted 21 July 2009 Posted 21 July 2009 Jesus was the David Blaine of that time. He was a highly skilled magician.In those days if you had the skill of a magician people would put it down to mysterious forces hence why people thought he was the son of god. Empty you have to realise they weren't as educated as well as we are now. They use to think that the moon and sun were gods also which we now know is not the case. This is a misconception I think. Some of the greatest thinkers EVER were from even before Jesus was born. Plato, Socrates etc. were ages ago but their works are still studied today by top thinkers. I'd say that mankind has always been as intelligent as we are now. There were always great minds. There are many examples of great ancient civilizations with technology. And Jesus wasn't a magician, he was a Prophet of God Yes, people did used to think the Sun and Moon were Gods (the Roman leaders did) but Jesus wasn't one of them. He taught mankind not to worship anything created. That's one of the reasons the rulers hated him, cos he tried to stop people worshipping the Sun.
BoneDog Posted 21 July 2009 Posted 21 July 2009 Everything we're told, is passed on by repeaters. Repeaters are not necessarilly teachers of fact. Even teachers are taught and told what to say be repeaters, who teach. Fact is, no one know's whether they know who/what Jesus was if he existed at all. I'm not talking about hearsay as to whether Jesus existed or not. There are plenty of written records from the time about him. And from other parts of the world. Jesus existed for sure. And so did Moses who was even further back in time. We have records of certain writers and people who existed in ancient Babylon, so I don't understand why people seem to think Jesus was a myth! But I suppose that's what propaganda does.
Edmund Posted 21 July 2009 Posted 21 July 2009 And Jesus wasn't a magician, he was a Prophet of God Thats why we will never be able to convince one another as we have different beliefs. True there were some great thinkers but were talking a small handful. The majority would be wowed over easily by magic never seen or heard before. Its not like they had tv or radio for news to spread, it was all done by word of mouth which you could imagine started to escalate like chinese whispers.
ob1kanobe0 Posted 21 July 2009 Author Posted 21 July 2009 I'm not talking about hearsay as to whether Jesus existed or not. There are plenty of written records from the time about him. And from other parts of the world. Jesus existed for sure. And so did Moses who was even further back in time.We have records of certain writers and people who existed in ancient Babylon, so I don't understand why people seem to think Jesus was a myth! But I suppose that's what propaganda does. Those writers were repeaters of fact or fiction?
l444ry Posted 21 July 2009 Posted 21 July 2009 It's not possible that Jesus existed, it's certain. Just like we are certain of Pharoahs and other people who we know existed up to 5000 years ago, it is not even a debate if Jesus existed or not. The evidence is there. It wasn't long ago he walked this earth. 20 people who live to 100 years old, that's how little time has passed since then.I agree that he wasn't the literal son of God, he was just a man, but he never said he was the son of God. Some dodgy Kings and priests have changed his words and pretend he said that when they re-wrote the Gospels. Jesus actually said "I am just a man, do not worship me, but worship He who Created you". Christians should follow Jesus and behave like he did and not worship him. Jesus used to pray to God and ask for help, he wasn't God himself. He was the greatest man of the time and that is why the leaders of the region persecuted him. You're an interesting character Empty but you keep on getting things wrong. John 10:31-39 and Matthew 26:62-64 are the most obvious examples that Jesus claimed to be God.
BoneDog Posted 22 July 2009 Posted 22 July 2009 You're an interesting character Empty but you keep on getting things wrong.John 10:31-39 and Matthew 26:62-64 are the most obvious examples that Jesus claimed to be God. What I have read though tells me that alot of these words can't be trusted. We know how the New Testament has been changed so many times. King James being one example. I have read books that show how some of The Bible is the same in the earliest copies right up until our latest versions, but also show how some of the verses have been changed so much that they now say different things than they once did. Also, there are verses in there that weren't even in there before 300a.d. I just don't get how that works? A Christian should only want to follow what Jesus said, but there are alot of sentences in The Bible now that weren't there at one point. It's so hard to work out what to believe Jesus said, but some scholars have spent a long time working on this and have helped. I honestly think that the verses like the above are ones that were added after Jesus was gone. If you look at Matthew 21:11 it says that the people called him a prophet, " and the crowds said 'this is Jesus, prophet of Nazareth' ". In John 17:3-14 Jesus says 'thou, thee and thy' alot when speaking of God " ...that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent..." Last one! Matthew 19:17 Jesus responds to someone who calls him "oh Good Master". Jesus says "... why thou callest me good? There is none good but One, and that is God." John 14:28 "...I go unto the Father, for my Father is greater than I." I think these verses show that Jesus says that him and God are two different beings. But it's all opinions
Babylon Posted 22 July 2009 Posted 22 July 2009 When I saw "Replying to Was Jesus born on 9/11?" as the thread title I instantly thought... oh no it's another El Empty conspiracy theory. Was I the only one?
davieG Posted 22 July 2009 Posted 22 July 2009 What I have read though tells me that alot of these words can't be trusted. We know how the New Testament has been changed so many times. King James being one example. I have read books that show how some of The Bible is the same in the earliest copies right up until our latest versions, but also show how some of the verses have been changed so much that they now say different things than they once did. Also, there are verses in there that weren't even in there before 300a.d.I just don't get how that works? A Christian should only want to follow what Jesus said, but there are alot of sentences in The Bible now that weren't there at one point. It's so hard to work out what to believe Jesus said, but some scholars have spent a long time working on this and have helped. I honestly think that the verses like the above are ones that were added after Jesus was gone. If you look at Matthew 21:11 it says that the people called him a prophet, " and the crowds said 'this is Jesus, prophet of Nazareth' ". In John 17:3-14 Jesus says 'thou, thee and thy' alot when speaking of God " ...that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent..." Last one! Matthew 19:17 Jesus responds to someone who calls him "oh Good Master". Jesus says "... why thou callest me good? There is none good but One, and that is God." John 14:28 "...I go unto the Father, for my Father is greater than I." I think these verses show that Jesus says that him and God are two different beings. But it's all opinions And yet you choose to be selective and trust the wriiten words you want to believe but dismiss the ones that might bring into question what you believe as false. Nice to see that one eye is still working El.
The Doctor Posted 22 July 2009 Posted 22 July 2009 Am I the only one who doesnt give a **** when Jesus was born? I couldn't give two s**ts either. we celebrate (and by celebrate i mean eat until we burst) christmas on the 25th of december so who cares when the fictional character who the celebration is for was actually invented by wankers trying to force us to believe what they believe born
Babylon Posted 22 July 2009 Posted 22 July 2009 And yet you choose to be selective and trust the wriiten words you want to believe but dismiss the ones that might bring into question what you believe as false.Nice to see that one eye is still working El. Hilarious isn't it.
Edmund Posted 22 July 2009 Posted 22 July 2009 When I saw "Replying to Was Jesus born on 9/11?" as the thread title I instantly thought... oh no it's another El Empty conspiracy theory.Was I the only one? Nope
BoneDog Posted 22 July 2009 Posted 22 July 2009 And yet you choose to be selective and trust the wriiten words you want to believe but dismiss the ones that might bring into question what you believe as false.Nice to see that one eye is still working El. The written words i choose to believe are ones that scholars have proved to have been there before 325a.d and The First Council of Nicaea. The ones I don't believe (and for good obvious reason) are the additions that have been made in the last 1600 years. If a person chooses to follow Jesus then this is the way to go. Follow Jesus' words and not the ones changed and added by corrupt secretive regimes since Jesus' death. So, yes, I do dismiss some of the verses, cos I believe the historians and scholars who have said that these verses never used to exist in the Gospels.
BoneDog Posted 22 July 2009 Posted 22 July 2009 When I saw "Replying to Was Jesus born on 9/11?" as the thread title I instantly thought... oh no it's another El Empty conspiracy theory.Was I the only one?
BoneDog Posted 22 July 2009 Posted 22 July 2009 I couldn't give two s**ts either. we celebrate (and by celebrate i mean eat until we burst) christmas on the 25th of december so who cares when the fictional character who the celebration is for was actually invented by wankers trying to force us to believe what they believe born another joker who thinks that the man called Jesus of Nazareth never existed!! It's hilarious. Do you think Solomon or Moses were invented aswell (who, incidentally, lived before the time of Jesus) !! The great Solomon.
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