Multiculturalism has failed

[Guest Bilo]

David Cameron has criticised "state multiculturalism" in his first speech as prime minister on radicalisation and the causes of terrorism.

At a security conference in Germany, he argued the UK needed a stronger national identity to prevent people turning to all kinds of extremism.

He also signalled a tougher stance on groups promoting Islamist extremism.

The Muslim Council of Britain said its community was being seen as part of the problem rather than the solution.

Mr Cameron suggested there would be greater scrutiny of some Muslim groups which get public money but do little to tackle extremism.

Ministers should refuse to share platforms or engage with such groups, which should be denied access to public funds and barred from spreading their message in universities and prisons, he argued.

"Frankly, we need a lot less of the passive tolerance of recent years and much more active, muscular liberalism," the prime minister said.

Human rights

"Let's properly judge these organisations: Do they believe in universal human rights - including for women and people of other faiths? Do they believe in equality of all before the law? Do they believe in democracy and the right of people to elect their own government? Do they encourage integration or separatism?

"These are the sorts of questions we need to ask. Fail these tests and the presumption should be not to engage with organisations," he added.

Reacting to the speech, the Muslim Council of Britain's assistant secretary general, Dr Faisal Hanjra, said the government had failed to move the issue on.

He told Radio 4's Today programme: "It is disappointing. We were hoping that with a new government, with a new coalition that there'd be a change in emphasis in terms of counter-terrorism and dealing with the problem at hand.

"In terms of the approach to tackling terrorism though it doesn't seem to be particularly new.

"Again it just seems the Muslim community is very much in the spotlight, being treated as part of the problem as opposed to part of the solution."

Muslim youth group The Ramadhan Foundation said that, by singling out Muslims, Mr Cameron had fed "hysteria and paranoia".

Chief executive Mohammed Shafiq said: "British Muslims abhor terrorism and extremism and we have worked hard to eradicate this evil from our country.

"But to suggest that we do not sign up to the values of tolerance, respect and freedom is deeply offensive and incorrect."

In the speech in Munich, Mr Cameron drew a clear distinction between Islam the religion and what he described as "Islamist extremism" - a political ideology he said attracted people who feel "rootless" within their own countries.

"We need to be clear: Islamist extremism and Islam are not the same thing," he said.

The government is currently reviewing its policy to prevent violent extremism, known as Prevent, which is a key part of its wider counter-terrorism strategy.

A genuinely liberal country "believes in certain values and actively promotes them", Mr Cameron said.

"Freedom of speech. Freedom of worship. Democracy. The rule of law. Equal rights, regardless of race, sex or sexuality.

"It says to its citizens: This is what defines us as a society. To belong here is to believe these things."

He said under the "doctrine of state multiculturalism", different cultures have been encouraged to live separate lives.

'I am a Londoner too'

"We have failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong. We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values."

Building a stronger sense of national and local identity holds "the key to achieving true cohesion" by allowing people to say "I am a Muslim, I am a Hindu, I am a Christian, but I am a Londoner... too", he said.

Security minister Baroness Neville-Jones said when Mr Cameron expressed his opposition to extremism, he meant all forms, not just Islamist extremism.

"There's a widespread feeling in the country that we're less united behind values than we need to be," she told Today.

"There are things the government can do to give a lead and encourage participation in society, including all minorities."

'Several factors'

But the Islamic Society of Britain said the prime minister did not appreciate the nature of the problem.

Ajmal Masroor from the group told BBC Radio 5 live: "I think he's confusing a couple of issues: national identity and multiculturalism along with extremism are not connected. Extremism comes about as a result of several other factors."

Former home secretary David Blunkett, meanwhile, said while it was right the government promoted national identity, it had undermined its own policy by threatening to withdraw citizenship lessons from schools.

He accused Education Secretary Michael Gove of threatening to remove the subject from the national curriculum of secondary schools in England at a time "we've never needed it more".

"It's time the right hand knew what the far-right hand is doing," he said.

"In fact, it's time that the government were able to articulate one policy without immediately undermining it with another."

Go on then, let's get the ball rolling.......

[Finnegan]

Well, Nick Griffin Thracian will be happy.

[Jon the Hat]

It is time that all organisations are judged on the same basis. Recommend listening to the whole speech.

[FoxyPV]

Foreign policy as a cause, anyone?

[Guest BlueBrett]

The Muslim Council of Britain said its community was being seen as part of the problem rather than the solution.

Errr no shit. What do they expect? There is no point pretending. If someone blows themselves up at rush hour next week it will be a Muslim. You have to appluad Cameron for having the balls to actually talk about it.

[Finnegan]

Errr no shit. What do they expect? There is no point pretending. If someone blows themselves up at rush hour next week it will be a Muslim.

It really puzzles me how drastically you shift between seeming fairly intelligent and being completely ignorant.

Even Cameron made it clear that he recognizes a significant difference between Islamic members of our society and "Muslim Extremists." What the MCB are saying is that well meaning co-operation between the Muslim community, the establishment and the rest of British culture is the best way to achieve a harmony and an understanding with which they can combat fundamentalism.

Viewing all members of the Islamic faith as 'the problem' is the single best way to isolate, outcast and ultimately radicalise confused and yet-undecided Muslim youths and push them towards a destructive ideology.

[Zingari]

Maybe saying multiculturalism has failed is a bit too strong ,

But after years of being told the stupendous lie of how fookin wonderful , and how much its improved and enriched our

lives in the uk, it does bring a much needed bit of realism to the issue

[Finnegan]

Maybe saying multiculturalism has failed is a bit too strong ,

But after years of being told the stupendous lie of how fookin wonderful , and how much its improved and enriched our

lives in the uk, it does bring a much needed bit of realism to the issue

I reckon he just wanted his own ridiculously right-wing catchphrase to compete with Maggie "No Such Thing As Society" Thatcher.

[Jon the Hat]

This is not just about terrorism. It is also about cultural practices and traditions which have no place in our modern western society. we should be proud that we have equal rights, of our freedoms and legal protections.

[Guest BlueBrett]

Even Cameron made it clear that he recognizes a significant difference between Islamic members of our society and "Muslim Extremists." What the MCB are saying is that well meaning co-operation between the Muslim community, the establishment and the rest of British culture is the best way to achieve a harmony and an understanding with which they can combat fundamentalism.

Viewing all members of the Islamic faith as 'the problem' is the single best way to isolate, outcast and ultimately radicalise confused and yet-undecided Muslim youths and push them towards a destructive ideology.

Well exactly. Cameron doesn't say all members so why does that Muslim leader blokey make it sound as if he does in his response?

I definitely don't view all members of the Islamic faith as the problem but I do feel that the Islamic community could do more to show that they recognise the terrorist threat does largely, if not exclusively, stem from within their community and do much more to help identify and cast out the devils within.

To me they just seem in denial. As soon as anyone mentions the threat of 'Islamic terrorism' they get all up and arms about it and start whining about being singled out. Then the so-called leaders of their community effectively make excuses for the extremists like you just did by saying that they behave the way they do because they have been 'isolated and radicalised'.

[Zingari]

I reckon he just wanted his own ridiculously right-wing catchphrase to compete with Maggie "No Such Thing As Society" Thatcher.

if that's the case , he should stand at immigration control shouting, "shut that door !"

[BoneDog]

Just sounds like another high level politician deflecting blame onto others instead of where the blame belongs - i.e Foreign policies and dirty schemes by government agencies and secret police all around the world who collaborate with eachother.

Every group I know of who cause hatred and blow things up (from Hamas to the IRA and Al Qa-CIA-da) were created and/or funded by different government agencies.

[Finnegan]

It's not really "an excuse", though, is it? It's a reason, a cause.

And you really think all Muslims are just sitting around going "IT WASNT US! IT WASNT US!" every time a bomb goes off? That strikes me as an immensely simplistic view of the world.

[acooling08]

Cameron is right. It's less multicultural and more isolated ghettos of culture in Leicester. And I agree with a previous comment, multiculturism hasn't enriched my life much at all.

[One Arm Babba]

IMO.

The problem is with society on the whole. A weak justice system and political correctness. To me it doesn't matter what colour or religion anyone is. What does, is that everyone gets policed and punished accordingly as 1 society.

Bring back national service, then we're all the one.

[BoneDog]

There's nothing wrong with multiculturism at all.

Normal people of all races get on with eachother all around the world and always have until some powerful folk create problems.

[Finnegan]

Cameron is right. It's less multicultural and more isolated ghettos of culture in Leicester. And I agree with a previous comment, multiculturism hasn't enriched my life at all in any way.

You've never enjoyed a curry, a pizza or a bowl of chicken fried rice? Never enjoyed a bit of hip hop? You don't follow a Thai-owned football club with Japanese, Dutch and Swiss internationals?

Have absolutely no friends that aren't 'White British' (although, to be fair, that wouldn't surprise me.)

[acooling08]

There's nothing wrong with multiculturism at all.

Normal people of all races get on with eachother all around the world and always have until some powerful folk create problems.

Multiculturalism works in theory but not in practice

[Finnegan]

Multiculturalism works in theory but not in practice

Would you care to expand on what you mean by that, please?

[acooling08]

You've never enjoyed a curry, a pizza or a bowl of chicken fried rice? Never enjoyed a bit of hip hop? You don't follow a Thai-owned football club with Japanese, Dutch and Swiss internationals?

Have absolutely no friends that aren't 'White British' (although, to be fair, that wouldn't surprise me.)

Don't like curry or Pizza and like all real music lovers, I hate Hip Hop. And living in countesthorpe, there's very few non 'white british' to befriend

Tbh my point is that I could do without the benefits you mentioned for the downsides it brings. But yeah I take your point.

[Zingari]

There's nothing wrong with multiculturism at all.

Normal people of all races get on with eachother all around the world and always have until some powerful folk create problems.

Whilst i'm not totally disagreeing with you and accept there may be an element of truth in your assertion of "state sponsored terrorism" , surely this will only work if there is an already deep seated problem of mistrust and cultural conflict

[acooling08]

Would you care to expand on what you mean by that, please?

Well the idea is all nice and rosy, everyone of all races, religions getting along together but that just doesn't happen. White and non-white don't usually mix. All of the cultures keep to their own culture rather than mix with the others. Sorry if I'm not explaining myself well.

[MikeyT]

Don't like curry or Pizza and like all real music lovers, I hate Hip Hop. And living in countesthorpe, there's very few non 'white british' to befriend

Tbh my point is that I could do without the benefits you mentioned for the downsides it brings. But yeah I take your point.

You crazy, crazy man!!

[Finnegan]

Whilst i'm not totally disagreeing with you and accept there may be an element of truth in your assertion of "state sponsored terrorism" , surely this will only work if there is an already deep seated problem of mistrust and cultural conflict

Oh my God, I really can't believe I'm about to help El Empty out here.

But it would be POTENTIALLY very easy for the state to create said deeply rooted sense of mistrust or cultural conflict IF THAT IS WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO DO.

The vast majority of the population are very easily manipulated by the 'free' press, news broadcasts and popular culture. All of which are THEORETICALLY easily controlled by the state to meet their needs.

[Leicester_Loyal]

There's nothing wrong with multiculturism at all.

Normal people of all races get on with eachother all around the world and always have until some powerful folk create problems.

Aye, just like Israel and Palestine have been good mates for years, there always sending each other rockets