Finnegan Posted 5 February 2011 Posted 5 February 2011 Well the idea is all nice and rosy, everyone of all races, religions getting along together but that just doesn't happen. White and non-white don't usually mix. All of the cultures keep to their own culture rather than mix with the others. Sorry if I'm not explaining myself well. I'm sorry, but this just sprung to mind and I couldn't resist: (You may need to wind about halfway through.)
Leicester_Loyal Posted 5 February 2011 Posted 5 February 2011 Well the idea is all nice and rosy, everyone of all races, religions getting along together but that just doesn't happen. White and non-white don't usually mix. All of the cultures keep to their own culture rather than mix with the others. Sorry if I'm not explaining myself well. And that is just because we are all humans. Most of us would rather stick with what we know and what we were brought up with, it is our own personal culture, why would we want to have to comply with another culture, especially in our own country.
z-layrex Posted 5 February 2011 Posted 5 February 2011 Multiculturalism works in theory but not in practice what? So everyone in the UK should all have exactly the same opinions, culture and beliefs? That is a silly thing to say.
Finnegan Posted 5 February 2011 Posted 5 February 2011 what? So everyone in the UK should all have exactly the same opinions, culture and beliefs? That is a silly thing to say. I agree. Nurse me.
Zingari Posted 5 February 2011 Posted 5 February 2011 Oh my God, I really can't believe I'm about to help El Empty out here. But it would be POTENTIALLY very easy for the state to create said deeply rooted sense of mistrust or cultural conflict IF THAT IS WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO DO. The vast majority of the population are very easily manipulated by the 'free' press, news broadcasts and popular culture. All of which are THEORETICALLY easily controlled by the state to meet their needs. i agree it would be possible hypothetically , but if it were true , i'm not sure why a government would single out muslims for this treatment in the uk , when there are so many other cultural groups that seem to be left alone i still maintain that the element of conflict and cultural mistrust is there without any covert intervention , although i accept your point and readily agree to the possibility
Finnegan Posted 5 February 2011 Posted 5 February 2011 I don't think El Empty's ever really be concerned with "if it were true."
z-layrex Posted 5 February 2011 Posted 5 February 2011 I think the world would be a better place if people would just stop thinking so much and chill the **** out.
Finnegan Posted 5 February 2011 Posted 5 February 2011 I think the world would be a better place if people would just stop thinking so much and chill the **** out. Slip me a twenty bag and I'll get started.
Trav Le Bleu Posted 5 February 2011 Posted 5 February 2011 Don't like curry or Pizza and like all real music lovers, I hate Hip Hop. And living in countesthorpe, there's very few non 'white british' to befriend Tbh my point is that I could do without the benefits you mentioned for the downsides it brings. But yeah I take your point. Are you telling me that I don't like music? <_< Multiculturalism is really the root of the problem is it? Im his speech he mentions that these people segregate themselves... erm, last time I checked, that's not multiculturalism. The thing is, you can't force people to adopt our ways when they live here. Multicultruralism requires all the different parties to take part (the clue is in the "multi" part). What Cameron should be more worried about is people who come here and NOT want to be multicultural. Surely it's these people who are extremists? It's give and take - everything is, it's what decent life requires. And if were going to come down heavy on foreigners who don't adopt our "ways", then we should abandon all Brits who get banged up abroad for upseting the local decency. Fair?
Guest BlueBrett Posted 5 February 2011 Posted 5 February 2011 Multiculturalism is really the root of the problem is it? Im his speech he mentions that these people segregate themselves... erm, last time I checked, that's not multiculturalism. The thing is, you can't force people to adopt our ways when they live here. Multicultruralism requires all the different parties to take part (the clue is in the "multi" part). What Cameron should be more worried about is people who come here and NOT want to be multicultural. Surely it's these people who are extremists? It's give and take - everything is, it's what decent life requires. I agree. To advocate multiculturalism across the nation smacks of failing to understand the people you are preaching to. To many of us multiculturalism is just second nature, it doesn't even need a name it is just life. To vast swathes of Muslims though the idea of embracing many of our customs and modes of behaviour is completely abhorrent. They have no interest in integrating because their religion just doesn't allow them the flexibility that we enjoy. Far from wanting to become part of British society they want to create their own society within a society that is governed by their own distinct set of rules - hence the rise of 'faith schools' and calls for the adoption of sharia law. Even on an individual level many of them just dont want to or can't integrate. I am fortunate in that I am free to socialise with and ultimately to marry whoever I want. In many Muslim communities mixing with 'outsiders' in a social capacity is frowned upon to say the least and the prospect of 'diluting' the faith or culture by marrying a non-muslim doesn't even bear thinking about because of the repercussions that would follow. Multi-culturalism is great for those of us who are free and willing to embrace it as it opens us up to a whole range of different experiences and gives us a more rounded and interesting impression of the world we live in. The problem is that when applied to Muslims 'multiculturalism' too often basically means us making allowances for and tolerating them with nothing coming back the other way.
Master Fox Posted 5 February 2011 Posted 5 February 2011 God. Cameron is a fcuking ****. Clueless fat headed twat. I think what he should be saying is 'capitalism' and 'globalization' has failed. Our current system has made society the way it is.
cc_star Posted 5 February 2011 Posted 5 February 2011 Multiculturalism isn't a fail, but it has in this country. There are too many communities which are too insular from each other & rarely do they mix. This breeds mistrust & resentment This country's version of multiculturalism is closer to apartheid (segregation-wise not class-wise) than the true goal of multiculturalism
Trav Le Bleu Posted 5 February 2011 Posted 5 February 2011 I agree. To advocate multiculturalism across the nation smacks of failing to understand the people you are preaching to. To many of us multiculturalism is just second nature, it doesn't even need a name it is just life. To vast swathes of Muslims though the idea of embracing many of our customs and modes of behaviour is completely abhorrent. They have no interest in integrating because their religion just doesn't allow them the flexibility that we enjoy. Far from wanting to become part of British society they want to create their own society within a society that is governed by their own distinct set of rules - hence the rise of 'faith schools' and calls for the adoption of sharia law. Even on an individual level many of them just dont want to or can't integrate. I am fortunate in that I am free to socialise with and ultimately to marry whoever I want. In many Muslim communities mixing with 'outsiders' in a social capacity is frowned upon to say the least and the prospect of 'diluting' the faith or culture by marrying a non-muslim doesn't even bear thinking about because of the repercussions that would follow. Multi-culturalism is great for those of us who are free and willing to embrace it as it opens us up to a whole range of different experiences and gives us a more rounded and interesting impression of the world we live in. The problem is that when applied to Muslims 'multiculturalism' too often basically means us making allowances for and tolerating them with nothing coming back the other way. Not quite what I was saying BB. I wasn't saying that Muslims don't believe in multiculturalism (though SOME clearly don't - but you will find that amongst Hindu, Sikh, Jewish, Christian, Taoist.... the list goes on) rather than labelling a whole society as some kind of malevolent force. I have found Muslims to be generous and courteous to strangers and respectful of others' beliefs - clearly this is not true of everyone, but then Ian Paisley would hardly have talked calmly and openly to a catholic just a few years back (and I have to say I have a begrudging respect to the guy for the changes he's made in his tolerance recently), but this does not mean that all Christians are like that. You're right to say that there are Muslims who view the way the Western world lives as decadant and abhorrent and therefore seperate themselves from it. This does however beg the question, if you don't want anything to do with the western world and you abhor it, why live there? As Lot was forced to do (I'm fairly certain Muslims will accept this as Lot was Ibrahim's nephew) he had to leave Sodom and Gomorrah behind. Having said that, many Christians will have a similar interpretation of that with regards to modern Western civilisation. Fortunately, most Christians are waiting for God to sort that out and not taking matters into their own hands, but there are still some scary "Christian" groups... the KKK for instance. You can't judge a man by his brother is the truth of what I'm saying.
ozleicester Posted 5 February 2011 Posted 5 February 2011 i thought the EDL were in Luton today.. not Germany. Shameful and embarrasing
Leicester_Loyal Posted 6 February 2011 Posted 6 February 2011 BlueBrett gets a lot of shit, but the man talks sense.
Jackirius Posted 6 February 2011 Posted 6 February 2011 I agree. To advocate multiculturalism across the nation smacks of failing to understand the people you are preaching to. To many of us multiculturalism is just second nature, it doesn't even need a name it is just life. To vast swathes of Muslims though the idea of embracing many of our customs and modes of behaviour is completely abhorrent. They have no interest in integrating because their religion just doesn't allow them the flexibility that we enjoy. Far from wanting to become part of British society they want to create their own society within a society that is governed by their own distinct set of rules - hence the rise of 'faith schools' and calls for the adoption of sharia law. Even on an individual level many of them just dont want to or can't integrate. I am fortunate in that I am free to socialise with and ultimately to marry whoever I want. In many Muslim communities mixing with 'outsiders' in a social capacity is frowned upon to say the least and the prospect of 'diluting' the faith or culture by marrying a non-muslim doesn't even bear thinking about because of the repercussions that would follow. Multi-culturalism is great for those of us who are free and willing to embrace it as it opens us up to a whole range of different experiences and gives us a more rounded and interesting impression of the world we live in. The problem is that when applied to Muslims 'multiculturalism' too often basically means us making allowances for and tolerating them with nothing coming back the other way. China called, they would like their wall back.
Thracian Posted 6 February 2011 Posted 6 February 2011 Well, Nick Griffin Thracian will be happy. Thracian's not even read it. Havng three Muslim friends I consider as daughters, I'm more than happy to get my Muslim perspective first hand thanks. Inshallah.
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 6 February 2011 Posted 6 February 2011 I hear your a racist now Cameron! How did you get into that sort of thing? Should we all be being racists now Mr Cameron? Whats the official tory line on this, as personally I prefer question time and a cup of tea? Mad Women - "Good for you Cameron, Good for you, feking Greeks taking our Women and our jobs"
Phube Posted 6 February 2011 Posted 6 February 2011 I think you're all mixing up Multi-culturism with getting along with races. What Cameron and the other anti-multi-culturism (?) people who (aren't racist) are on about it a lack of a National identity for EVERY race/culture/religion in a country. The ghetto-isation in cities across England is because of in a way multi-culturism. It's a way of saying you (different people) have your culture, you other (different people) have your separate culture, and we'll (another different set of people) will have our culture. Hence you live here, you live here you live here... and we'll all try to get along. Instead of you may be X, you may be Y and we're Z but hey, we're ALL British, English, from Leicester etc... we should be sharing a common value, goal etc. Yes that is harder and may not be easy to implement. Two examples where this kind of thing is tried (obviously not without problems) is USA and Singapore. In the USA you swear to become an American Citizen and uphold American values and most Americans whatever their heritage or ability to get along with each other are actually proud of being American. (Not one of the 9/11 bombers were US citizens, unlike 7/7 where they were British born and bred!) In Singapore they have state controlled integration, as 99% of housing is social they make sure in the same block of flats they put the cultures/religions Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Taoist etc. to specifically stop ghetto's forming. This seemed to work well.
Finnegan Posted 6 February 2011 Posted 6 February 2011 BlueBrett gets a lot of shit, but the man talks sense. A truly sterling endorsement, there, from our resident EDL apologist. That's just what poor BlueBrett needs to aid his reputation! Thracian's not even read it. Havng three Muslim friends I consider as daughters, I'm more than happy to get my Muslim perspective first hand thanks. Inshallah. Three now? You've gained a couple!
Thracian Posted 6 February 2011 Posted 6 February 2011 A truly sterling endorsement, there, from our resident EDL apologist. That's just what poor BlueBrett needs to aid his reputation! Three now? You've gained a couple! Correct. The last one recently lost her mum and dad. But we'd been friends for ages.
Starkwell Posted 6 February 2011 Posted 6 February 2011 I've always been skeptical of the lauding of multiculturalism. In the UK the price of multiculturalism (and i'm not just talking about religion, I'm talking about Culture) is a thinning of the blood, a watering down of all cultural elements. Cameron talks about a stronger national identity, but the driving force behind multiculturalism in Britain is 'not trying to offend', this combined with a saturation of American culture (probably the biggest element of cultural blending in Britain), has led to an ever growing absence of historical British tradition and attitude and an insincere lip-service acceptance of new minority cultures. Basically, by ironing out all cultural extremes to make a please-all, offend-nobody, vanilla environment, Britain has achieved multiculturalism by becoming relatively cultureLESS. Especially combined with the ever increasing apathy and laziness of modern society and, of course, the glutinous over-consumption of American cultural content. And it comes as no surprise when a discussion on multiculturalism is highjacked by religion. On a domestic level, the greatest problem for multiculturalism on a practical, social level, is etiquette and manners, what different cultures feel is acceptable social behaviour.
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