David Starkey

[FoxyPV]

This may well be true , but how does this equate to women becoming more violent drunken and loutish than previous generations ?

iI could equally be argued that men are portrayed more in sexually explicit situations as there are far more male strippers and girly night sex clubs than there were , but I doubt if anyone would equate this to a rise in male violence or general yobbishness .

Basically feminists will always blame men for whatever bad things women do , and always claim credit for whatever good things men do

Because the influences of certain types of masculinity are not the exclusive rights of the male sex. If you grow up in an area that advocates a certain type of behaviour, gendered or otherwise, you will be affected by this regardless of your sex.

In regards to the sex industry etc - there is a massive power differential between men going into a sex club to watch and women going in to do the same. This is ignoring the fact that generally the women who frequent sex clubs do so in large groups and think of it as a joke rather than the sexual fantasy that is assumed in male attendance.

There are a plethora of schools of feminist thought as there are in any political theory and yes some feminists believe that most of the worlds ills are caused by men, which is not seeing the wood for the trees. I don't think there's any point in being a feminist if you are focused solely on one particular set of behaviours, you have to look at the whole picture. The only way you are going to change societal attitudes to women is to reassess and change the concept of what makes a man.

Most forms of masculinity are based on negative traits (i.e what it is not rather than what it is) so in defining masculinity it always has to denigrate something else to makes itself viable. In most cases this is the notion of femininity or homosexuality - you are not a man etc if you display behaviours which can be construed as belonging to either of these concepts.

[Zingari]

Because the influences of certain types of masculinity are not the exclusive rights of the male sex. If you grow up in an area that advocates a certain type of behaviour, gendered or otherwise, you will be affected by this regardless of your sex.

In regards to the sex industry etc - there is a massive power differential between men going into a sex club to watch and women going in to do the same. This is ignoring the fact that generally the women who frequent sex clubs do so in large groups and think of it as a joke rather than the sexual fantasy that is assumed in male attendance.

There are a plethora of schools of feminist thought as there are in any political theory and yes some feminists believe that most of the worlds ills are caused by men, which is not seeing the wood for the trees. I don't think there's any point in being a feminist if you are focused solely on one particular set of behaviours, you have to look at the whole picture. The only way you are going to change societal attitudes to women is to reassess and change the concept of what makes a man.

Most forms of masculinity are based on negative traits (i.e what it is not rather than what it is) so in defining masculinity it always has to denigrate something else to makes itself viable. In most cases this is the notion of femininity or homosexuality - you are not a man etc if you display behaviours which can be construed as belonging to either of these concepts.

Thanks Foxy

I'm really only going on my experiences and have done absolutely no studies on feminism of any kind so this is purely a bloke in the street answer

From my experience of being a male we are aggressive because of a need to be aggressive to attract the opposite sex , this is not always shown as open violent aggression as we would witness while watching lions and tigers etc but I truly believe that women for all their claims to the contrary , want the male to be "alpha male" (or as close as she can get)whether it be in success in showbusiness sport , business or general day to day relationships with other males

I just think it is nature's way inasmuch as we are not so far removed from the beasts as would like to believe, we've just got better and more sophisticated at doing it , therefore while I really don't mind feminists making points about how things should be , I really think they should try and focus on how women actually behave and choose their partners in real life .

But I'll reiterate that this is only the usual Zingari simplistic bollox

[accessory]

Legally yes, but culturally the backlash is already in full flow against any gains that were made in changing societal attitudes to women. See the veneration of lads mags Zoo etc, the growth of sexually explicit and implicit advertising, attitudes to stripping/ lap dancing ... I could go on. Society is far more sexist now that it was in the 80s or 90s.

I'm not convinced that's true - there are a lot more women in positions of influence nowadays, although a gender balance similar to that seen in Scandinavia is still some way off.

The media do not reflect the position of society at large.

[FoxyPV]

Thanks Foxy

I'm really only going on my experiences and have done absolutely no studies on feminism of any kind so this is purely a bloke in the street answer

From my experience of being a male we are aggressive because of a need to be aggressive to attract the opposite sex , this is not always shown as open violent aggression as we would witness while watching lions and tigers etc but I truly believe that women for all their claims to the contrary , want the male to be "alpha male" (or as close as she can get)whether it be in success in showbusiness sport , business or general day to day relationships with other males

I just think it is nature's way inasmuch as we are not so far removed from the beasts as would like to believe, we've just got better and more sophisticated at doing it , therefore while I really don't mind feminists making points about how things should be , I really think they should try and focus on how women actually behave and choose their partners in real life .

But I'll reiterate that this is only the usual Zingari simplistic bollox

I'm always impressed by a man beating his chest, jutting out his lip and making a lot of noise

I'm not convinced that's true - there are a lot more women in positions of influence nowadays, although a gender balance similar to that seen in Scandinavia is still some way off.

The media do not reflect the position of society at large.

They may not reflect the position (I disagree) but they certainly help shape it. In regards to Scandanavia, we are a million miles off their gender attitudes on a street level nevermind a legal level.

[Guest MattP]

I think there's a valid point in there badly worded.

Had he used the words 'street' or 'gangsta' culture instead of black culture, nobody would have batted an eyelid. Clumsily worded and displays a rather out-of-touch, ignorant middle aged man in my view.

This.

Can't blame him though, I'm only 28 and "out of touch" with the youth now in the words they use and the way they talk. From what I hear I have no interest in being in touch either.

One of the saddest things I heard from last week was every youth community worker/youth leader they interviewed on sky from London seemed to have an extremely poor grasp of English.

One was from "Bigga Fish"

[Zingari]

I'm always impressed by a man beating his chest, jutting out his lip and making a lot of noise

They may not reflect the position (I disagree) but they certainly help shape it. In regards to Scandanavia, we are a million miles off their gender attitudes on a street level nevermind a legal level.

Mick Jagger did alright doing just that

[Brown Fox]

So it's valid for you to say Whites are the most racist but not for a White person to claim that Asians or Blacks are?

Noooo. What I meant is that you can't say anyone is more racist can you? If you're White and you get racially abused it'll be by an Asian or Black etc. And if your Black or Asian you're most likely going to get racial abuse from Whites. You can't just say one race is more racist because of your experience.

[Rincewind]

Bill Cosby speech on street talk

[Uncle Monty]

Starkey sick of hearing Jamaican patois at the IvyHISTORIAN David Starkey has written to a top London restaurant about its constant use of nihilistic Jamaican patois.

Henry VIII would have hated Funkmaster Flex Dr Starkey says that every time he goes to the Ivy in London's fashionable West End, the white maitre d' greets him with a loud 'wha gwan Star-kee?' and then attempts to shake his hand in an unusual way.

He added: "The waiters call me 'rude bwoy' and 'Doctah D' and the menu is all spicy bananas and jerked meat.

"I am then surrounded by fellow diners all speaking a particularly aggressive and destructive form of Jamaican gangsta street lingo while I and my lunch companion attempt to discuss the consistency of Henry VIII's mid-morning stool.

"This is why so many of us have this sense of, literally, a foreign country."

Dr Starkey's outburst follows his claim the riots started because young white people had become black 'thus making it very difficult for the police to see them at night'.

He also claimed young people, who are all exactly the same now, stole televisions because of the way they talked.

But as riot-loving communists said that Alf Garnett with a PhD and a contract with Channel Four is still a racist, Dr Starkey was defended heroically by a couple of right wing white men causing everyone in Britain to immediately realise they had made a big fuss over nothing.

Julian Cook, professor of shut up, you're wrong at Delingpole University, said: "When did it become racist to make sweeping generalisations about ethnicity?"

Publishing his letter to the Ivy, Dr Starkey said the Oxford and Cambridge Club was just as bad, 'especially after they granted full membership rights to bitches'.

[Blinking Blue Owl]

Of course with the media such as the BBC hell bent on suppressing what the majority of people think in this country it's no wonder the indigenous population ( yes that's whites ) feel they have no voice and their opinions right or wrong are suppressed and ignored . They too have their own culture but are belittled and called a little Englander if they dare to criticise the negative affect of so called " multi culturalism " To give an instance of this If i make a statement that weather people like it or not it was very evident that the majority of those rioters were Black afro Caribbean I will be called a nasty little racist , even though you would have to be colour blind not to see that statement was true . If any good can come out of these riots it is we have to face up to the truth of what is happening to this country because I fear the worm will turn and these riots will seem like a scuffle in the park compared to what will happen If the truth cannot be spoken any more .

[l444ry]

Some of the Greek islands – I’m thinking in particular of Zakinthos, but there are certainly others are seriously plagued during the summer months by hordes of drunken and violent British youths, about 90% of them white. They drink themselves insensate, fornicate publicly in the streets, fight each other and sometimes assault passers-by, scream foul language at everyone in sight, and vomit and defecate everywhere. There's probably an element of them posting on this forum.

This type of behaviour doesn’t seem to have been copied from black culture – not so far as I can see, anyway – and it’s not an expression of poverty, judging by the number of vodka bottles that are downed every night. Like it or loathe it, and admit it or not, what I’m referring to is part and parcel of contemporary British culture – in fact in some parts of the continent, this is what Britain is best known for these days.

It’s a part of British culture that owes nothing to the blacks, and its existence seems to me to suggest something much deeper than the allegedly sinister effects of “multiculturism”. Perhaps it would be better to do something about it, rather than listen to a right-wing buffoon, before the blacks start learning from the young white English visitors who every summer are doing their best to make life hell for everyone in the more popular of the holiday resorts of the Mediterranean.

[Zingari]

Some of the Greek islands – I’m thinking in particular of Zakinthos, but there are certainly others are seriously plagued during the summer months by hordes of drunken and violent British youths, about 90% of them white. They drink themselves insensate, fornicate publicly in the streets, fight each other and sometimes assault passers-by, scream foul language at everyone in sight, and vomit and defecate everywhere. There's probably an element of them posting on this forum.

This type of behaviour doesn’t seem to have been copied from black culture – not so far as I can see, anyway – and it’s not an expression of poverty, judging by the number of vodka bottles that are downed every night. Like it or loathe it, and admit it or not, what I’m referring to is part and parcel of contemporary British culture – in fact in some parts of the continent, this is what Britain is best known for these days.

It’s a part of British culture that owes nothing to the blacks, and its existence seems to me to suggest something much deeper than the allegedly sinister effects of “multiculturism”. Perhaps it would be better to do something about it, rather than listen to a right-wing buffoon, before the blacks start learning from the young white English visitors who every summer are doing their best to make life hell for everyone in the more popular of the holiday resorts of the Mediterranean.

This is all very true l444ry and I’ve often commented on the disgusting behaviour of a good many British holidaymakers on the costas and other popular sunspots . I’ve often remarked how on many occasions that it makes me very ashamed and I’m honest enough to say what I see and I’m not prepared to make ridiculous excuses for their behaviour

But conversely we have to say what we see at home during these riots etc and be totally honest about what we see happening here too.

We can’t keep openly condemning thuggish behaviour from one set and then start blaming society when another set is involved because we want to believe in our own predetermined political dogma.

[Daggers]

I will be called a nasty little racist , even though you would have to be colour blind not to see that statement was true

Why?

Were there a lot of Red/Green & Yellow/Blue looters then?

[Blinking Blue Owl]

See I knew you could not help your self lol . Ah now then typical left wing diversionary tactics , lets talk about drunken whites abroad and try to equate their behaviour with the rioting mob so as to draw a parallel and make it appear all square shall we . Bollocks it's no where near the same and you know it .

[Rincewind]

The only difference is that the white yobbos getting drunk abroad can afford to go there in the first place.

[Blinking Blue Owl]

And why is that exactly ? Oh bugger i forgot they must have a job or something .