Rincewind Posted 14 August 2011 Posted 14 August 2011 The thing with David Starkey is that he is an historian so is an expert in what was instead of what is. Culture is changing all the time. The social nectwork such as Facebook, Twitter and even Foxestalk is expanding. When the youth go on there I do not believe race is a factor in discussions. what concerns them is being accepted, jobs homelife or the lack of it. They find they a lot of the time they have in common grievances that they feel are being ignored by those who they feel should care. For us in ivory towers we cannot emphasise with and although we may have worked hard to get where we are many of us have had the backing of close knit families. There are many issues which cannot be passed over with a wave of the hand and remarks like 'If they got jobs and stopped wanted everything for nothing they would be better off.' I don't live in a boarded up flat with human excrement on the stairs or with lifts that don't work. I doubt anyone in that position would be posting on Foxestalk. So suggestions on how to get out of the gutter when everytime you get on your knees Sme MP raises the kerbstone?
FoxyPV Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 Generic bollox Class and masculinity are the reasons behind the trouble. It's nothing to do with race.
FoxyPV Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 Tow the line.. There are some valid points in what he has said but the manner in which he phrased it negated any of those points being seen. I don't understand why Starkey was on talking about the riots in the first place. He's a centre right historian and my political views are on the far left. We're not going to see eye to eye.
accessory Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 Class and masculinity are the reasons behind the trouble. It's nothing to do with race. So why were so many women and girls willing to become involved in the looting?
FoxyPV Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 So why were so many women and girls willing to become involved in the looting? Just because you are female doesn't mean that you can't take your influences from hyper masculinity. Gender and sex are not one and the same.
adam1 Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 David Starkey is an historian. Historians use text and other sources to propose theories. These theories can be quite controversial. Historians often operate long after the event (30+ years) and not in the following week, and so this has a negative effect because of its proximity to the events. If his theory was published in 30 years time it would not gather any/much controversy. Watch it again in the context of what he is and what they do as set out above.
Zingari Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 Just because you are female doesn't mean that you can't take your influences from hyper masculinity. Gender and sex are not one and the same. Society is far more influenced by feminist thought than in the previous generations, and females have more power and independence , but violence and aggression among women ( and men) seems to have increased .
Dr The Singh Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 Enoch Powell has proved to be right. His prophesies have been proven true, as I knew then they would. The greatest politician since the great Sir Winston Churchill. ' Sadly, the Blacks and Asian youth of today, imo, have been the root cause of the degeneration of this country, of our traditional standards, and are mainly responsible for racial tension today, and have certainly been seen, to be extremely active in the riots. David Starkey, is an icon, who is highly respected in his field, and I generally agree with all he has said. In my experience, the most racist people I have encountered, are certainly young Blacks and Asians (from my Police experience). Asian children as young as four, calling me a "A white bastard" as I walked passed their front gates. Blacks, walking around with T shirts that read "Proud to be Black". What would happen if any of us did the same, but use the word white? We, would be racists, but they are not considered as such. Two World Wars, and this is the sort of country we have become. Truly a disgrace. I would also admit to many whites also partaking, but the majority are not. Around 80% of the wanted pictures, in my old office, are non white criminals, and that just about fits the bill in my town . .I have a number, of decent non white friends, and ex colleagues, who fully agree with me, so please don't call me racist. Those who do, are merely burying their heads in the sand, and shying away from the truth. 2 DT your steroepying and generalisaing is daft, you mention Asians.....that's people from a whole fooking continent, it's like mentioning the English as Europeans. And it's like being in germany amongst english expats and saying 'you white european people are the most racist people on the planet due to right wing groups in russia', and you would say, i'm not from russia and i'm not russian'. Fact certain 'asian' groups have the lowest crime rates and best educations rates, highest home owners (i'm talking about Sikhs here) and compared to the average white are far more wealthier, nullifys your arguement!! SIkhs have very little in common with majority of there 'Asian' counterpart, so which Asian groups and which black groups??? Or are you being so pig ignorant in not knowing or find your life easier in brushing every brown or black person with the same stick!! Although I agree, certain communities from the indian subcontinent are the most racist people on the planet, escpecially indian hindus who's culture and doctrine is still based around bhramical nazi beliefs, and the political systems is no anti non hindu, which has been proven by India's genocidal attrocities against non hindus and it's human rights record!! I don't think your racist but daft certainly, ignorant yes, dangerous no, tiger ask your mrs!!!
Trav Le Bleu Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 DT your steroepying and generalisaing is daft, you mention Asians.....that's people from a whole fooking continent, it's like mentioning the English as Europeans. And it's like being in germany amongst english expats and saying 'you white european people are the most racist people on the planet due to right wing groups in russia', and you would say, i'm not from russia and i'm not russian'. Fact certain 'asian' groups have the lowest crime rates and best educations rates, highest home owners (i'm talking about Sikhs here) and compared to the average white are far more wealthier, nullifys your arguement!! SIkhs have very little in common with majority of there 'Asian' counterpart, so which Asian groups and which black groups??? Or are you being so pig ignorant in not knowing or find your life easier in brushing every brown or black person with the same stick!! Although I agree, certain communities from the indian subcontinent are the most racist people on the planet, escpecially indian hindus who's culture and doctrine is still based around bhramical nazi beliefs, and the political systems is no anti non hindu, which has been proven by India's genocidal attrocities against non hindus and it's human rights record!! I don't think your racist but daft certainly, ignorant yes, dangerous no, tiger ask your mrs!!! Hinduist!
Trav Le Bleu Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 Only stating the truth buddy!!!! That's what Dr Starkey said!
21st Century Fox Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 Being a homosexual of the older generation David Starkey should probably choose his words more carefully and not make sweeping generalisations. He's lived through a time when he was part of a marginalised minority and no doubt been tarred with some nonsensical generalisations himself. Who controls the perpetration of 'black culture' I don't imagine much of the films, music and black media is distributed and financed by black artists themselves. You can bet your life theres white guys in suits making a hefty profit and proliferating it.
l444ry Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 I'm at a loss as to why the programme producers thought getting some bumbling ignoramus on to talk about stuff he has bugger all real knowledge of was a good idea. Perhaps they thought it would descend into petty bickering, be 'controversial' and make good telly.... Then again, we have a Prime Minister who talks about finding solutions to problems he has no clue whatsoever about, so I suppose we shouldn't be surprised....
Trav Le Bleu Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 Being a homosexual of the older generation David Starkey should probably choose his words more carefully and not make sweeping generalisations. He's lived through a time when he was part of a marginalised minority and no doubt been tarred with some nonsensical generalisations himself. Who controls the perpetration of 'black culture' I don't imagine much of the films, music and black media is distributed and financed by black artists themselves. You can bet your life theres white guys in suits making a hefty profit and proliferating it. When I started reading that I thought you were coming out of the closet!
Dr The Singh Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 When I started reading that I thought you were coming out of the closet! WHen are you comming out of the closet Trav............I have been waiting for you.......
davieG Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 I'm at a loss as to why the programme producers thought getting some bumbling ignoramus on to talk about stuff he has bugger all real knowledge of was a good idea. Perhaps they thought it would descend into petty bickering, be 'controversial' and make good telly.... Then again, we have a Prime Minister who talks about finding solutions to problems he has no clue whatsoever about, so I suppose we shouldn't be surprised.... So no MPs then!
Trav Le Bleu Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 WHen are you comming out of the closet Trav............I have been waiting for you....... Meh, you'd spoil me for other men,
21st Century Fox Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 When I started reading that I thought you were coming out of the closet! I read that back to myself and realised I could have started it better hahaha I'm at a loss as to why the programme producers thought getting some bumbling ignoramus on to talk about stuff he has bugger all real knowledge of was a good idea. Perhaps they thought it would descend into petty bickering, be 'controversial' and make good telly.... I like the quote from the Guardian... "It is, as anyone who's tried it will know, very difficult to argue with crass stupidity. What do you make of someone who thinks using 'Jamaican' slang encourages youth to torch buildings? You may as well argue that speaking with an upper-class accent encourages people to hunt foxes."
Dr The Singh Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 Meh, you'd spoil me for other men, I've spoiled many bedsheets though!!!
FoxyPV Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 Society is far more influenced by feminist thought than in the previous generations, and females have more power and independence , but violence and aggression among women ( and men) seems to have increased . Legally yes, but culturally the backlash is already in full flow against any gains that were made in changing societal attitudes to women. See the veneration of lads mags Zoo etc, the growth of sexually explicit and implicit advertising, attitudes to stripping/ lap dancing ... I could go on. Society is far more sexist now that it was in the 80s or 90s.
Zingari Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 Legally yes, but culturally the backlash is already in full flow against any gains that were made in changing societal attitudes to women. See the veneration of lads mags Zoo etc, the growth of sexually explicit and implicit advertising, attitudes to stripping/ lap dancing ... I could go on. Society is far more sexist now that it was in the 80s or 90s. This may well be true , but how does this equate to women becoming more violent drunken and loutish than previous generations ? iI could equally be argued that men are portrayed more in sexually explicit situations as there are far more male strippers and girly night sex clubs than there were , but I doubt if anyone would equate this to a rise in male violence or general yobbishness . Basically feminists will always blame men for whatever bad things women do , and always claim credit for whatever good things men do
Daggers Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 In your experience as a White person of course if you get racial slurs against you it will be from people of other colours! Just like me being Asian, I can say safely in my opinion the most racist people are White you're not exactly going to get racially abused by people of your own race are you? So that argument of Asians and blacks being the most racist is invalid really. So it's valid for you to say Whites are the most racist but not for a White person to claim that Asians or Blacks are?
Daggers Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 I don't live in a boarded up flat with human excrement on the stairs or with lifts that don't work. I doubt anyone in that position would be posting on Foxestalk. So suggestions on how to get out of the gutter when everytime you get on your knees Sme MP raises the kerbstone? I managed it. MPs don't raise kerbstones, people in those situations build their own walls to hide behind. It all comes down to accepting personal responsibility.
Mack Posted 15 August 2011 Posted 15 August 2011 It's amusing to watch the ignorance of the middle class as they strive to fathom a phenomena they have no understanding of. This Country now has a state dependant underclass. A class that is 2 or three generations into taking from the government and anyone or anyone else they can. Their backgrounds are diverse and irrelevant. Starkey is an ignorant git with a big gob,
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