David Starkey

[Guest Bilo]

Racism threads on FoxesTalk always get interesting and his contribution to Newsnight is a major point of interest.

For me, Starkey's problems have come about through clumsy phrasing. He should not have used the term 'black culture' because there is much, much more to black culture than what I suspect is his true target; 'gangsta' or 'street' culture which represents the worst end of black culture and to suggest that this is what black people have become in this country is wrong and offensive, I daresay David Lammy won't exactly take 'he sounds white' as a compliment either.

There are certainly some very unpleasant aspects to these subcultures such as misogyny, racism, glorification of violence and total unquestioning acceptance and celebration of consumerism. This is not about race and by calling it as though it is, he has really put himself in a sticky spot. I daresay Starkey is falling into the trap of stereotyping all young black people as being adherents of the worst excesses of their own culture.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Racism threads on FoxesTalk always get interesting and his contribution to Newsnight is a major point of interest.

For me, Starkey's problems have come about through clumsy phrasing. He should not have used the term 'black culture' because there is much, much more to black culture than what I suspect is his true target; 'gangsta' or 'street' culture which represents the worst end of black culture and to suggest that this is what black people have become in this country is wrong and offensive, I daresay David Lammy won't exactly take 'he sounds white' as a compliment either.

There are certainly some very unpleasant aspects to these subcultures such as misogyny, racism, glorification of violence and total unquestioning acceptance and celebration of consumerism. This is not about race and by calling it as though it is, he has really put himself in a sticky spot. I daresay Starkey is falling into the trap of stereotyping all young black people as being adherents of the worst excesses of their own culture.

Good points Bilo. As you say, it's not all about blacks. It might be something that started there, but it started there by black youths taking things from white culture (gangster to gangsta) and plenty of white and Asian kids have joined in too.

[Daggers]

I'm totally gangster.

[Zingari]

emily maitlis is me bitch

[Trav Le Bleu]

emily maitlis is ma bitch

Fail.

[Libertine]

Can't stand these honkies.

[sphericalfox]

Where's stu's input on this subject....I am intrigued?

[FoxyPV]

David Starkey was a willy puller before this ill-judged line of argument and nothing has changes since.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Enoch Powell has proved to be right. His prophesies have been proven true, as I knew then they would. The greatest politician since the great Sir Winston Churchill.

'

Sadly, the Blacks and Asian youth of today, imo, have been the root cause of the degeneration of this country, of our traditional standards, and are mainly responsible for racial tension today, and have certainly been seen, to be extremely active in the riots.

David Starkey, is an icon, who is highly respected in his field, and I generally agree with all he has said.

In my experience, the most racist people I have encountered, are certainly young Blacks and Asians (from my Police experience). Asian children as young as four, calling me a "A white bastard" as I walked passed their front gates. Blacks, walking around with T shirts that read "Proud to be Black". What would happen if any of us did the same, but use the word white? We, would be racists, but they are not considered as such.

Two World Wars, and this is the sort of country we have become. Truly a disgrace. I would also admit to many whites also partaking, but the majority are not.

Around 80% of the wanted pictures, in my old office, are non white criminals, and that just about fits the bill in my town .

.I have a number, of decent non white friends, and ex colleagues, who fully agree with me, so please don't call me racist. Those who do, are merely burying their heads in the sand, and shying away from the truth.

2

[Salieri]

This could get messy.

[Zingari]

This could get messy.

Emily Maitlis could get messy

[accessory]

Enoch Powell has proved to be right. His prophesies have been proven true, as I knew then they would. The greatest politician since the great Sir Winston Churchill.

'

Sadly, the Blacks and Asian youth of today, imo, have been the root cause of the degeneration of this country, of our traditional standards, and are mainly responsible for racial tension today, and have certainly been seen, to be extremely active in the riots.

David Starkey, is an icon, who is highly respected in his field, and I generally agree with all he has said.

In my experience, the most racist people I have encountered, are certainly young Blacks and Asians (from my Police experience). Asian children as young as four, calling me a "A white bastard" as I walked passed their front gates. Blacks, walking around with T shirts that read "Proud to be Black". What would happen if any of us did the same, but use the word white? We, would be racists, but they are not considered as such.

Two World Wars, and this is the sort of country we have become. Truly a disgrace. I would also admit to many whites also partaking, but the majority are not.

Around 80% of the wanted pictures, in my old office, are non white criminals, and that just about fits the bill in my town .

.I have a number, of decent non white friends, and ex colleagues, who fully agree with me, so please don't call me racist. Those who do, are merely burying their heads in the sand, and shying away from the truth.

Well done Bilo, you landed a whopper there..

But wait until acooling and Thracian join the party, then you'll really have a catch..

PS Enoch was 100% WRONG - and so is Starkey.

[I am Rod Hull]

David Starkey was a willy puller before this ill-judged line of argument and nothing has changes since.

Tow the line..

[I am Rod Hull]

PS Enoch was 100% WRONG - and so is Starkey.

Not 100%

[Guest Bilo]

Well done Bilo, you landed a whopper there..

But wait until acooling and Thracian join the party, then you'll really have a catch..

PS Enoch was 100% WRONG - and so is Starkey.

Why do you think I started the thread? I'm like the mods' worst nightmare.....

I agree with you, Enoch Powell was and is wrong. Though a little known fact, some of the more incendiary quotes in his Rivers of Blood speech, including that very phrase, came from letters written to him by his constituents and were not his own words.

Starkey's insinuation that gangsta culture represents black people is as offensive as saying the EDL and BNP represent white, working-class English people. I fit that category and they sure as shit don't represent me, just as most black people in this country feel no affinity with those who looted major cities last week.

[Jon the Hat]

Suspect he was trying to make a valid point. Sadly, white educated middle aged men are not allowed to be right these days. Innit.

[Guest Bilo]

Suspect he was trying to make a valid point. Sadly, white educated middle aged men are not allowed to be right these days. Innit.

I think there's a valid point in there badly worded.

Had he used the words 'street' or 'gangsta' culture instead of black culture, nobody would have batted an eyelid. Clumsily worded and displays a rather out-of-touch, ignorant middle aged man in my view.

[Daggers]

Suspect he was trying to make a valid point. Sadly, white educated middle aged men are not allowed to be right these days. Innit.

You are my wife.

[Zingari]

I think there's a valid point in there badly worded.

Had he used the words 'street' or 'gangsta' culture instead of black culture, nobody would have batted an eyelid. Clumsily worded and displays a rather out-of-touch, ignorant middle aged man in my view.

yes but that's the trouble with the interview , they were intent on tripping him up on stuff like his inability to name rap stars etc

[Jon the Hat]

I think there's a valid point in there badly worded.

Had he used the words 'street' or 'gangsta' culture instead of black culture, nobody would have batted an eyelid. Clumsily worded and displays a rather out-of-touch, ignorant middle aged man in my view.

Yes all intelligent people must be in touch to have a valid opinion! So sayeth the BBC. Word.

[Jon the Hat]

yes but that's the trouble with the interview , they were intent on tripping him up on stuff like his inability to name rap stars etc

Exactly. Like that was in anyway relevant. Pick him up on semantics rather than address the point he is clearly trying to make.

[Brown Fox]

Enoch Powell has proved to be right. His prophesies have been proven true, as I knew then they would. The greatest politician since the great Sir Winston Churchill.

'

Sadly, the Blacks and Asian youth of today, imo, have been the root cause of the degeneration of this country, of our traditional standards, and are mainly responsible for racial tension today, and have certainly been seen, to be extremely active in the riots.

David Starkey, is an icon, who is highly respected in his field, and I generally agree with all he has said.

In my experience, the most racist people I have encountered, are certainly young Blacks and Asians (from my Police experience). Asian children as young as four, calling me a "A white bastard" as I walked passed their front gates. Blacks, walking around with T shirts that read "Proud to be Black". What would happen if any of us did the same, but use the word white? We, would be racists, but they are not considered as such.

Two World Wars, and this is the sort of country we have become. Truly a disgrace. I would also admit to many whites also partaking, but the majority are not.

Around 80% of the wanted pictures, in my old office, are non white criminals, and that just about fits the bill in my town .

.I have a number, of decent non white friends, and ex colleagues, who fully agree with me, so please don't call me racist. Those who do, are merely burying their heads in the sand, and shying away from the truth.

2

In your experience as a White person of course if you get racial slurs against you it will be from people of other colours! Just like me being Asian, I can say safely in my opinion the most racist people are White you're not exactly going to get racially abused by people of your own race are you? So that argument of Asians and blacks being the most racist is invalid really.

Also what city do you work in because if it's Leicester then I can understand a lot of people being coloured an involved in crime but it all comes down to if they're brought up in poverty. I'm sure you could go to a fair few police stations in Stoke or Sunderland and most people would be White on the most wanted board. It all really comes down to your upbringing and if they're affected by poverty.

Also don't worry I don't think you're racist

[l444ry]

RIOTS: Ali-G to advise Government on Gang and Black Culture

David Starkey has recommended this special advisor.

[Guest Bilo]

Yes all intelligent people must be in touch to have a valid opinion! So sayeth the BBC. Word.

That isn't what I said.

To comment on what is happening now, you do need to have a firm grasp of the broader issues BUT I feel the point he was making had some validity as I've already alluded to in my earlier post. The question of race is for obvious reasons an extremely sensitive one, so to make the riots an issue of black culture was always going to land him in hot water as was his 'David Lammy sounds white,' as if to say that is the only reason Lammy has made a success of himself. His opinion is valid and I do feel he was aiming it at a specific culture that has its origins within some black communities, but his clumsy wording has made it difficult for him.

As I've already said, had he been more in-touch and made it clear that the insidious gangsta culture was not what all black culture was about, he'd have had no problems and probably had the panel agree with him. The cultures to which he eventually referred are corrosive. They are homophobic, glorify violence and hatred of authority, unquestioningly embrace materialist consumerism, are misogynist and racist. It isn't a race issue and hasn't been for a while. Chav culture has embraced some elements of gangsta culture and the two have intertwined to become a bastardised concept that is decidedly mixed-race. It's a subculture that has permeated people of all colours, Asian males have also been known to embrace it. If you look into Desi culture or read Londonstani by Gautam Malkani, you will see this process beginning to take root with Asian people as well.

There are some very informed commentators who argue that this subculture has had its part to play, but they make a clear distinction between it and black culture as no respectable commentator would blame it all on the latter. No one 'black culture' exists any more than one 'white culture' exists, a Nigerian and a Jamaican would have no more in common than a Pole and an Australian. By clumsily claiming that it did, Starkey has rather put himself in a difficult position that he did not need to put himself in.

[I am Rod Hull]

Media brainwashing works only on the weak minded...

Is there anyone on this site who`s never had a racist thought ?. Black, white, asian, arab ?... IS THERE FOOK !

Lets pretend we`re all the same and everything will be ok...