Leicester Teenager admits burgling 278 homes and stealing 60 cars

[Guest]

Seriously, can you not just put him on ignore if it's all so frustrating?

That really is the best advice

[AoWW]

That really is the best advice

I'm full of it. Or shit. Anyway, something like that.

[Nick]

He is on ignore.

but it's impossible because his twoddle shapes every thread!

[AoWW]

He is on ignore.

but it's impossible because his twoddle shapes every thread!

But he has just as much right to post. Sorry, but that's kinda the way it works.

[Nick]

But he has just as much right to post. Sorry, but that's kinda the way it works.

That's not in dispute.

[Guest Col city fan]

He is on ignore.

but it's impossible because his twoddle shapes every thread!

Ignore me mate, you'll feel better for it I'm sure... I don't want to make you feel like this, it's kinda creepy and verging on the strange.

[Captain...]

Cancer care was merely one of the neccessary causes I mentioned (do you ever actually read anything through and not pick up on something to foster your own argument mate)?

We just have to agree to disagree. You must be a genuinely heartfelt and altruistic chap. Good for you to be fair!

Phew... We've cleared that up...

What did I not read Col?

I have addressed your general concerns about the distribution of limited government resources, as well as suggesting an alternative between locking him up and throwing away the key and letting him get off scot free, which seems to be the only two options in your eyes.

If I have missed anything you would like me to specifically respond to let me know I was in a bit of hurry to get the radio on and listen to the match.

[Rincewind]

Col, the distribution of resources argument is bollocks, and you know it, either way money will be spent on this kid, either through punishment, rehabilitation or a combination of the 2.

Tell me this what benefit is there in keeping him locked up for the rest of his life, at great cost to the tax payer? It may stop some people being burgled, but what do you think will happen when he is released? He will just be packed off and then ignored? He will be monitored by police, he will be picked up and questioned regularly about burglaries, he will have a probation officer trying to help him find work and become a valued member of society, help him claim benefits and support himself legally.

I don't know if it is common practice, but if I believed he was a high risk to commit more crimes I would fit him with an electronic tag, so it could easily be proved if he was at the scene of a crime and be found and dealt with quickly, to me that would be a more effective way of stopping him committing crimes without, locking him up and throwing away the key, Nick I don't know if you know if that is possible likely or even legal.

On to your point about the distribution of resources, crime, criminals and the social problems which cause it are one of the greater ills of our society and ones that can be fixed, and it is a better use of tax payers money than your typically emotive examples, Cancer research is not being held up by a lack of funds, Cancer research charities are some of the most over funded charities, it is not for a lack of money, but a lack of time, knowledge and expertise, that is why we haven't found a cure for cancer yet. We have found a cure for petty crime, it is called policing, education and social welfare, but we don't have the funds to implement these schemes, but that is a different issue than that of how to deal with a first time teenage offender.

A sensible post in seven pages.of .'expert knowledge' Is that a recxird for Foxestalk?

[Rincewind]

New plan to keep young offenders out of prison

By Matthew Taylor

Crewe, Nantwhich & Sandbach Guardian

Tuesday 25th September 2012

A PIONEERING scheme to help young people aged 11-17 at risk of going into care or custody has been launched in Cheshire.

Funding of £200,000 from the Department for Education has enabled a multi-systemic therapy (MST) service to be established throughout Cheshire East.

Multi-systemic therapy is so called because it addresses the different ‘systems’ or social networks in an adolescent’s life.

Therapists work not only with the young person but also all those who influence the young person and his behaviour – such as his or her carers, family, teachers and even neighbours.

The system has proved successful elsewhere in Britain at breaking the cycle of crime and anti-social behaviour, by keeping young people at home, in school and out of trouble.

Studies have shown that MST can reduce arrest rates by up to 70 per cent, and reduce out-of-home placements by up to 64 per cent.

MST therapists will be available to families they are helping 24 hours a day, seven days a week. They will handle a small number of cases but provide intensive support.

Clr Hilda Gaddum, Cheshire East Council Cabinet member in charge of children and family services, said: “Multi-systemic therapy places the emphasis on early intervention, helping young people to address and change their behaviour before they reach the stage of entering care or custody.

“In other areas across Britain we have seen families completing MST and no longer needing support from additional services. This is very exciting for everyone involved in helping these families.

“Numerous studies have shown this approach achieves impressive long-term results. It has the potential to make a real difference to the lives of troubled young people and their families in Cheshire.â€

By insidenoutuk • Posted in CJS, Community Orders, Community Sentences, Community Sentencing, Crime, Criminal Justice, Criminal Justice Reform, Cutting Youth Crime, Desistence, Ex-Offender, HMPS, MOJ, NOMS, Offenders, Rehabilitation, Rehabilitation Revolution, Young Offenders, Young People, Youth, Youth Crime, Youth Offending, Youth Projects, Youth Sentencing, Youth Services • Tagged Crewe, Inside 'n' Out CIC., Nantwhich & Sandbach Guardian

[Guest Col city fan]

New plan to keep young offenders out of prison

By Matthew Taylor

Crewe, Nantwhich & Sandbach Guardian

Tuesday 25th September 2012

A PIONEERING scheme to help young people aged 11-17 at risk of going into care or custody has been launched in Cheshire.

Funding of £200,000 from the Department for Education has enabled a multi-systemic therapy (MST) service to be established throughout Cheshire East.

Multi-systemic therapy is so called because it addresses the different ‘systems’ or social networks in an adolescent’s life.

Therapists work not only with the young person but also all those who influence the young person and his behaviour – such as his or her carers, family, teachers and even neighbours.

The system has proved successful elsewhere in Britain at breaking the cycle of crime and anti-social behaviour, by keeping young people at home, in school and out of trouble.

Studies have shown that MST can reduce arrest rates by up to 70 per cent, and reduce out-of-home placements by up to 64 per cent.

MST therapists will be available to families they are helping 24 hours a day, seven days a week. They will handle a small number of cases but provide intensive support.

Clr Hilda Gaddum, Cheshire East Council Cabinet member in charge of children and family services, said: “Multi-systemic therapy places the emphasis on early intervention, helping young people to address and change their behaviour before they reach the stage of entering care or custody.

“In other areas across Britain we have seen families completing MST and no longer needing support from additional services. This is very exciting for everyone involved in helping these families.

“Numerous studies have shown this approach achieves impressive long-term results. It has the potential to make a real difference to the lives of troubled young people and their families in Cheshire.â€

By insidenoutuk • Posted in CJS, Community Orders, Community Sentences, Community Sentencing, Crime, Criminal Justice, Criminal Justice Reform, Cutting Youth Crime, Desistence, Ex-Offender, HMPS, MOJ, NOMS, Offenders, Rehabilitation, Rehabilitation Revolution, Young Offenders, Young People, Youth, Youth Crime, Youth Offending, Youth Projects, Youth Sentencing, Youth Services • Tagged Crewe, Inside 'n' Out CIC., Nantwhich & Sandbach Guardian

200k and 24/7 support....

Believe me this will be a tiny number of cases.

I'm sure it would work well for the few involved, the therapists will practically be living with these families.

Intensive support for a select few. I wonder who the few are and how they are selected?

[Guest Col city fan]

What did I not read Col?

I have addressed your general concerns about the distribution of limited government resources, as well as suggesting an alternative between locking him up and throwing away the key and letting him get off scot free, which seems to be the only two options in your eyes.

If I have missed anything you would like me to specifically respond to let me know I was in a bit of hurry to get the radio on and listen to the match.

What you obviously didn't read is the other areas of public expenditure that I stated money needs to be spent on. All 'typically emotive' in your eyes.

What, is 'mental health' typically emotive then Cap Shrap? Did you know mental health in patient wards and community services are being slimmed down across the country. Did you find the closure of Connexions 'typically emotive'? I'm sure the young people who were helped back into work probably did. What about cuts to Age Concern, learning disability services, all manner of other sectors? Are these all 'emotive' or essential? I'd say the latter.

The reality is that I care about public services as much as you do. The difference is where I'd target the money. The public purse isn't infinite. This kid wouldn't be a priority for me. Get him away from where he can more trouble for the greater good of society. If that sounds harsh then I'm sorry but I don't give a shit. I'd rather spend the money on seeing more police on the streets or not seeing a Drug and Alcohol centre close.

[Ilkeston_Fox]

Interesting. If a 14-year-old child can evade capture 278 times, it makes you wonder just how easy it is to get away with burglary, and equally how totally shit the police must be at preventing it. Either way it's a good advert for a life of small time criminal behavior. Seems largely risk free, and I'm sure the rewards can be great. Tempting.

Or how vulnerable some people leave their house. Windows open, porch/conservatory door unlocked, no alarm/not activating the alarm, leaving the house keys right by the door, leaving the car keys right by the door (the little oiks will have a hook on a pole and collect said keys through letterboxes).

Or how busy police officers already are, whose workload is only set to increase when the 20% cuts take affect. I realise this is of no significance to you as the public, but they aren't miracle workers, if you don't start looking out for yourselves how can the police do the same?

Having said all of that, the little turdbags will still try and get in by forcing doors/windows, having a dog is a great deterrent, sounds daft but they are probably the best weapon against burglary.

[Captain...]

What you obviously didn't read is the other areas of public expenditure that I stated money needs to be spent on. All 'typically emotive' in your eyes.

What, is 'mental health' typically emotive then Cap Shrap? Did you know mental health in patient wards and community services are being slimmed down across the country. Did you find the closure of Connexions 'typically emotive'? I'm sure the young people who were helped back into work probably did. What about cuts to Age Concern, learning disability services, all manner of other sectors? Are these all 'emotive' or essential? I'd say the latter.

The reality is that I care about public services as much as you do. The difference is where I'd target the money. The public purse isn't infinite. This kid wouldn't be a priority for me. Get him away from where he can more trouble for the greater good of society. If that sounds harsh then I'm sorry but I don't give a shit. I'd rather spend the money on seeing more police on the streets or not seeing a Drug and Alcohol centre close.

Well your examples were typically emotive, you could have just as easily said transport infrastructure, or industry regulation not quite as glamorous or likely to tug at the heart strings as cancer or mental health issues. That is what I meant by emotive examples.

But you still don't seem to grasp the issue here it is not one of how much money to spend on punishing this kid, which I maintain would be less to imprison him for 4 years and rehabilitate him and support him not to reoffend, than just locking him up and throwing away the key, the issue is how to spend the money on him, and how he can repay his debt to society.

Where government money is spent is not relevant to this case, nor your comment, whatever course taken will cost tax payers money, unless you do literally lock him up and throw away the key and let him rot and die. In which case you would be right that would save a lot of money and there would be no more bad people.

Yay, what a wonderful world we would live in.

[Guest Col city fan]

Well your examples were typically emotive, you could have just as easily said transport infrastructure, or industry regulation not quite as glamorous or likely to tug at the heart strings as cancer or mental health issues. That is what I meant by emotive examples.

But you still don't seem to grasp the issue here it is not one of how much money to spend on punishing this kid, which I maintain would be less to imprison him for 4 years and rehabilitate him and support him not to reoffend, than just locking him up and throwing away the key, the issue is how to spend the money on him, and how he can repay his debt to society.

Where government money is spent is not relevant to this case, nor your comment, whatever course taken will cost tax payers money, unless you do literally lock him up and throw away the key and let him rot and die. In which case you would be right that would save a lot of money and there would be no more bad people.

Yay, what a wonderful world we would live in.

I wonder whether the 278 home owners or 60 car owners thought we live in 'a wonderful world' when they had their homes burgled, their cars nicked and their lives turned upside down. In some cases, most probably causing stress, fear and depression in some?

That's what..? 338 lives affected..

Multiply this by God knows how many other similar cases and you can see that what is currently in place ain't working? Or at least, not working in this case.

How about making Prison, like Prison and not, in some cases, like a bed and breakfast?

Your liberal views on crime and disorder, cos that's what you seem to have Cap Shrap? are opposite to mine. This don't mean I don't have sympathy for some of these young men and women, simply that I have a more right wing philosophy on the subject.

You don't agree.. Cest la vie. Don't mean I'm wrong and you're right.. Or indeed vice verca.

[Captain...]

I wonder whether the 278 home owners or 60 car owners thought we live in 'a wonderful world' when they had their homes burgled, their cars nicked and their lives turned upside down. In some cases, most probably causing stress, fear and depression in some?

That's what..? 338 lives affected..

Multiply this by God knows how many other similar cases and you can see that what is currently in place ain't working? Or at least, not working in this case.

How about making Prison, like Prison and not, in some cases, like a bed and breakfast?

Your liberal views on crime and disorder, cos that's what you seem to have Cap Shrap? are opposite to mine. This don't mean I don't have sympathy for some of these young men and women, simply that I have a more right wing philosophy on the subject.

First of all most of the cars would have been nicked from houses that were burgled and a number of those houses were probably targeted more than once, so you can reduce that figure in your emotive little opening gambit, although if you wanted you could multiply it by the average UK household to bloat the figure a bit more.

But this is not about the victims, that is a separate issue.

Secondly my comment at the end was a sarcastic retort to the implication you would be happier in a world were criminals are executed rather than helped, which you haven't denied yet.

You seem to be under the impression that locking this kid up will actually solve all crime in Leicester, it won't, it won't serve any purpose other than to satisfy your need for punishment. Working with kids like this getting their lives back on track and trying to understand how and why he ended up going down this route may actually make a difference may help us get to the root of the problem in Leicester, may help us spot the danger signs early on in other kids, it may even lead to a breakthrough in rehabilitation techniques. Or it may simply lead to another worker contributing to the economy and taxes.

Of course it might not, but locking him up and throwing the key will achieve absolutely nothing at great cost to the tax payer.

It is not about political leanings it is about looking to achieve something for the greater good, about tackling and understanding the root cause of criminal behaviour and activity, I guarantee you this 12 year old boys don't just start to burgle houses, he was almost certainly part of a gang, now if you bring me the leader of this gang, the man who exploited young, weak and vulnerable boys to do his dirty work for him while he makes all the money, then we can talk about throwing away the key.

This kid is not the disease he is not the malignant tumour, he is just a symptom, and just masking the symptoms so everything appears ok on the surface is not tackling the problem, and with this attitude the disease will never be dealt with.

On a side note a do think a lot of praise has to go to the Leicestershire police force, for quite an impressive crack down on burglars recently, I've been back over in Leicester and reading some of the statistics. Hats off.

[Rincewind]

There have been plenty of cases (read Inside N Out) that show that a meeting between victims of burglaries and the burglar actially benefits both. The victim becomes aware of why the kid did what he did and the kid understands how the victim feels.

The victim understanably has ill feelings and what they want is not justice as claimed but revenge. They want the perpertrater to suffer as they have done. This is quite natual but until they take a step back and think things through no ideal solution will be found.

The majority have not been in prison. Their view of prison is what they have read in the papers. They have no knowledge ast to how work programs are put in force. They do not know what ex-offenders have to deal with upon release other than what they read in newspapers and on messageboards.

I would rather listen to people that work within the system to gain information. Until then I will have an open mind and not be a part of a lynch mob.

[Guest Col city fan]

There have been plenty of cases (read Inside N Out) that show that a meeting between victims of burglaries and the burglar actially benefits both. The victim becomes aware of why the kid did what he did and the kid understands how the victim feels.

The victim understanably has ill feelings and what they want is not justice as claimed but revenge. They want the perpertrater to suffer as they have done. This is quite natual but until they take a step back and think things through no ideal solution will be found.

The majority have not been in prison. Their view of prison is what they have read in the papers. They have no knowledge ast to how work programs are put in force. They do not know what ex-offenders have to deal with upon release other than what they read in newspapers and on messageboards.

I would rather listen to people that work within the system to gain information. Until then I will have an open mind and not be a part of a lynch mob.

Sorry mate... I'd just rather not be burgled or have mi car nicked in the first place... How's that for a choice?

I wouldn't want to sit with the person that had stolen mi motor, trashed it and left it down some back street. I don't think I could empathise.

In fact I'd probably get locked up for trying to throttle him, or her....

I'm not attempting to be facetious... I simply know for me this wouldn't work. Preventing further crimes, rather than attempting to gain some closure from speaking with the kid who'd just lifted my iPhone, would be the way I'd go.

I know it does work for some though.

[Rincewind]

You may come to like him and want to adopt him.

[Guest Col city fan]

You may come to like him and want to adopt him.

I like your posts mate you seem very genuine.

That would be ironic wouldn't it.

Adopting the lad..

Who knows.

[marbelladave]

I'm stuck indoors this morning, so I revisited this thread having decided, yesterday, to let it go. So a final word.

I am saddened by the shear lack of any compassion shown for the victims in this thread.

When they are mentioned it is because they haven't turned their home into a fortress, that they are seeking revenge not justice, that they dont try to understand the people who thieve from then.

We even have the argument over the number of people affected, since some of them will have been victims more than once this reduces the numbers actually affected, and therefore the problem is not as bad as it seems, are you serious!

Burglary is one of the nastiest of crimes, it leaves people feeling violated and frightened in their own homes, decent peoples lives are being ruined by these anti social, thieving scum and they get precious little support from the authorities.

How about spending some of that £200k on helping victims rebuilt their lives, wrecked by these leeches?

I am all for giving people a chance to turn their lives round but at some point you have to acknowledge that, for some, it is not going to happen so the only thing you can do is protect the public, and if that means prison, then prison it is.

[MooseBreath]

You may come to like him and want to adopt him.

Adopt him and take a percentage of his profits. Great idea.

[Rincewind]

Like father like son hey?

[Captain...]

I'm stuck indoors this morning, so I revisited this thread having decided, yesterday, to let it go. So a final word.

I am saddened by the shear lack of any compassion shown for the victims in this thread.

When they are mentioned it is because they haven't turned their home into a fortress, that they are seeking revenge not justice, that they dont try to understand the people who thieve from then.

We even have the argument over the number of people affected, since some of them will have been victims more than once this reduces the numbers actually affected, and therefore the problem is not as bad as it seems, are you serious!

Burglary is one of the nastiest of crimes, it leaves people feeling violated and frightened in their own homes, decent peoples lives are being ruined by these anti social, thieving scum and they get precious little support from the authorities.

How about spending some of that £200k on helping victims rebuilt their lives, wrecked by these leeches?

I am all for giving people a chance to turn their lives round but at some point you have to acknowledge that, for some, it is not going to happen so the only thing you can do is protect the public, and if that means prison, then prison it is.

The comment about some of them being repeat victims was that Col's estimate of how many people have been affected was inaccurrate, I also qualified it by saying that each crime will affect more than one person as the average household in the UK is more than 1.

I am more than happy to discuss the victims, but there isn't really anything to discuss, and the debate moved onto punishing the criminal, and it wasn't the victims I was accusing of wanting revenge, it was those on here saying lock him up and throw away the key. So far there have been no reports of the victims being unhappy with the sentencing.

As for how the victims are treated, when my parent's house was done, I found the police to be very efficient, very competent, my only criticism would be the women on the end of 999, who wasn't particularly sympathetic to me, as I was a little shocked to come home (as it is still my home even though I don't live there) and find that someone had broken in. We had PC round within half an hour of dialing it in, we had the PCSO round the following day and the forensics team. We were given plenty of information about how to stop it happening again and reassured they were unlikely to come back, and that it was a chance occurrence and we had not been targeted.

It is an unpleasant crime, and Nightguard's post about meeting the perpetrator was interesting but I don't think it would be of any benefit to me or my parents, they have put it behind them now. The insurance covered everything, and we now have an alarm and better security lighting. It took them about 6 months to get over it fully, and our neighbour over the road getting done about a month later didn't help.

I have every sympathy with the the victims, but I don't see how locking him up and throwing away the key is anyway going to change things, or help them, he is not all burglars, the streets will not be noticeably safer with him locked up, he is not a one man crime spree and even if you believe that he did commit all of those crimes on his own, with no help from others and is not "helping" police clear up some open cases, we are still at more risk from burglary now then 10 years ago, and that is because the inequality in our country, the increasing amounts of unemployed and the squeeze on benefits and support services.

[marbelladave]

Sorry mon capitaine, but despite your rather bland assurances, many victims get no support from the police, cannot afford insurance and cannot 'put it behind them'. I do not see them getting help at all.

I was not specific in my post quite deliberately, I do not know the circumstances of the individual that carried out these robberies so tried to be more general in my observations.

I said quite clearly that I am happy to give people a chance, but if this chance is not taken then prison is currently the only option, you can't burgle peoples homes if you are locked up!

As for whether jailing one person makes a difference, I disagree and so most probably do the dozens of people whose homes would be violated if he was not locked up for 2-4 years.

Burglary and housebreaking is not taken seriously in this country, punishment is so modest that it is simply a 'lifestyle' option for some, and that is not right whatever their 'circumstances'.

[Guest Col city fan]

The comment about some of them being repeat victims was that Col's estimate of how many people have been affected was inaccurrate, I also qualified it by saying that each crime will affect more than one person as the average household in the UK is more than 1.

I am more than happy to discuss the victims, but there isn't really anything to discuss, and the debate moved onto punishing the criminal, and it wasn't the victims I was accusing of wanting revenge, it was those on here saying lock him up and throw away the key. So far there have been no reports of the victims being unhappy with the sentencing.

As for how the victims are treated, when my parent's house was done, I found the police to be very efficient, very competent, my only criticism would be the women on the end of 999, who wasn't particularly sympathetic to me, as I was a little shocked to come home (as it is still my home even though I don't live there) and find that someone had broken in. We had PC round within half an hour of dialing it in, we had the PCSO round the following day and the forensics team. We were given plenty of information about how to stop it happening again and reassured they were unlikely to come back, and that it was a chance occurrence and we had not been targeted.

It is an unpleasant crime, and Nightguard's post about meeting the perpetrator was interesting but I don't think it would be of any benefit to me or my parents, they have put it behind them now. The insurance covered everything, and we now have an alarm and better security lighting. It took them about 6 months to get over it fully, and our neighbour over the road getting done about a month later didn't help.

I have every sympathy with the the victims, but I don't see how locking him up and throwing away the key is anyway going to change things, or help them, he is not all burglars, the streets will not be noticeably safer with him locked up, he is not a one man crime spree and even if you believe that he did commit all of those crimes on his own, with no help from others and is not "helping" police clear up some open cases, we are still at more risk from burglary now then 10 years ago, and that is because the inequality in our country, the increasing amounts of unemployed and the squeeze on benefits and support services.

What?

You seem to imply that it's the unemployed and those claiming welfare benefits that go out and commit crime? Well I know lots of unemployed people who claim benefits who don't go out and commit crime. What figures do you have to back up this sweeping statement?

If inequality leads to crime, why is it that only some under priveliged people will commit crime, whilst others CHOOSE to lead adaptive lives?

It could be that the criminal justice system has led to an increase in crime: pathetic sentences, ASBOS and a Police Force so swamped in bureaucracy, red tape and political correctness that its become ever more difficult for them to do their jobs. And now, cutbacks of course, in the name of 'cost efficiency savings'.

Your posts increasingly come across like a Political Broadcast by the Raving Socialist Party.

Unless your gay of course, then you appear happy to make 'jokes' at will.

Confusing...