Leicester Teenager admits burgling 278 homes and stealing 60 cars

[marbelladave]

Absolutely my view Dave. This is getting a bit daft.. Will you stop it please..

[Zingari]

chop their goolies off !

[21st Century Fox]

Absolutely my view Dave. This is getting a bit daft.. Will you stop it please..

It's almost like being in Prison with the level of homoeroticism in here.

[Zingari]

It's almost like being in Prison with the level of homoeroticism in here.

we'll just have to take your word for it

[Guest Col city fan]

chop their goolies off !

Magic!

I used to love Not the Nine O Clock News!

Mel Smith as the Cambridge Professor..

lol

[21st Century Fox]

we'll just have to take your word for it

Didn't everyone get an erection reading it?

[marbelladave]

chop their goolies off !

Excellent idea, stop the bastards breeding.......

[Guest]

We all have to live with consequences of our actions. some people can accept that, some can't, some blame others.

I can agree with the arguments on both sides here and have sympathy for both. It's really a case by case situation but I do feel that the consequences should fit the crime and after that you can be rehabilitated. And if the parents are partially to blame then they need to face consequences and if you wish rehabilitation/training/indoctrination too.

[lavrentis]

Don't think I should be leaving my window open

[Rincewind]

Excellent idea, stop the bastards breeding.......

Good idea. After all they are only lower class and do not deserve compassion, love, help or anything else the better breeders get.

[marbelladave]

Good idea. After all they are only lower class and do not deserve compassion, love, help or anything else the better breeders get.

Absolutely, now you are getting it......

I don't give a fook how many kids people have, just two provisos......

That I don't have to pay for them!

That they are not brought up to be anti social, criminal or both!

I save my compassion for the people whose lives are made a misery by the subject of this thread and those like him........

[Nick]

Good idea. After all they are only lower class and do not deserve compassion, love, help or anything else the better breeders get.

[Captain...]

Absolutely, now you are getting it......

I don't give a fook how many kids people have, just two provisos......

That I don't have to pay for them!

That they are not brought up to be anti social, criminal or both!

I save my compassion for the people whose lives are made a misery by the subject of this thread and those like him........

Sorry I didn't realise that compassion was a finite resource.

[marbelladave]

Sorry I didn't realise that compassion was a finite resource.

It is not, it is simply conditional.....

Give someone a break, help people out when they are having a hard time, no problem. I have seen people from difficult circumstances fight and work to get themselves and sometimes their families a better life and I am happy for them to get all the help they need, even when it comes out of my taxes.

What I will not have, is any suggestion that anti social, criminal lowlife who are making absolutely no effort to change their lives and stop living of the efforts of working people are remotely deserving of my compassion.

[Captain...]

It is not, it is simply conditional.....

Give someone a break, help people out when they are having a hard time, no problem. I have seen people from difficult circumstances fight and work to get themselves and sometimes their families a better life and I am happy for them to get all the help they need, even when it comes out of my taxes.

What I will not have, is any suggestion that anti social, criminal lowlife who are making absolutely no effort to change their lives and stop living of the efforts of working people are remotely deserving of my compassion.

Well so far there is no evidence of anybody having given this kid a chance so far, if anything the opposite is true, so lets see if giving him a chance now works, if giving him an education and the skills to make something of himself will actually allow him to become a valued member of society.

[marbelladave]

Well so far there is no evidence of anybody having given this kid a chance so far, if anything the opposite is true, so lets see if giving him a chance now works, if giving him an education and the skills to make something of himself will actually allow him to become a valued member of society.

Actually there is no real evidence one way or another but your belief in human nature does you credit.

Personally I think that by the age of 19 it is far too late, behaviour pattens will be set and the odds are this individual will cause untold misery to hundreds of law abiding citizens.

[Captain...]

Actually there is no real evidence one way or another but your belief in human nature does you credit.

Personally I think that by the age of 19 it is far too late, behaviour pattens will be set and the odds are this individual will cause untold misery to hundreds of law abiding citizens.

The fact that there is no evidence either way is why I would rather help him than punish him.

If he had been given chances and help and he had thrown it back in their faces and reoffended repeatedly then I would understand people writing him off. But so far from what I've read he seems like a kid down on his luck and got mixed up with a bad crowd and has gone down the wrong path for a few years now.

I see no problem with his punishment, but I just find it quite depressing that people will write him off as a wrong un and a lost cause after a quarter of his life.

[marty78]

The fact that there is no evidence either way is why I would rather help him than punish him.

If he had been given chances and help and he had thrown it back in their faces and reoffended repeatedly then I would understand people writing him off. But so far from what I've read he seems like a kid down on his luck and got mixed up with a bad crowd and has gone down the wrong path for a few years now.

I see no problem with his punishment, but I just find it quite depressing that people will write him off as a wrong un and a lost cause after a quarter of his life.

Well said, again.

I also think the community into which he will be released has the right to expect every effort be made to minimise the risk of repeat offending.

[Rincewind]

I would rather someone try and help him change his life around than to ignore him and for me to be the next victim of his burgalry.

[Dan]

Well I can only assume you have never made a mistake in your life and have never been given a second chance by anyone.

I hope when you do make a mistake you get a second chance, and perhaps you will realise that everyone deserves at least one.

Are you for real?

This is no mistake at all. This is absolutely taking the piss, he's done it 278 (and I bet more) times for fvck sake. That's not a mistake, that's absolutely taking the piss and he shouldn't even be considered.

Think of the long term effects;

a) Lad is given help - He more than likely will re-offend yet he's still pretty much dodged punishment for upsetting hundreds, even thousands, for taking things that these people have worked for, for what reason? Self gain because he doesn't have to do anything for it. If it gets out that he's got away with it, how many of his type are gonna think they can actually make a living out of this kind of thing? A fair few.

b) Lad is locked up and severely punished - Justice still isn't done as it would take beyond a miracle to recover all the misery he's put these people through, people would look and think "wow, what a shit life he's had, he's completely fvcked that one up" and wouldn't even dare trying to steal as there's this kind of risk.

Honestly I can see why people do it - at best you've landed yourself hundreds, maybe even thousands worth of goods for absolutely nothing, at worst you're offered help to change your ways. The thought of that cycle sinking in makes my skin crawl.

A major concern for me is the fact he's actually pulled it off that many times. That's actually quite incredible and it's absolutely embarrassing for the police force.

[Dan]

So what is the alternative to giving him a another chance through attempted rehabilitation then if that offends people so much? Put him death maybe or keep him locked up for the remainder of his life at the taxpayers expense? Can't really think of many other options but I'm all ears.

Why did a twelve year old boy begin this life of crime in the first place? Could it be that perhaps he has been let down by the failure of people who should be nurturing, educating and of course disciplining him or was he just a bad egg by design? If someone had dealt with him a few years ago when his behaviour first deteriorated maybe a lot of the crimes he has been convicted of would never have been committed.

He doesn't deserve people excusing him like this either.

Having a tough upbringing doesn't excuse being a criminal. Sadly it's being used as an excuse nowadays for shit like this and it really does do my head in, I'm sorry, but no-one even aged 12 is stupid enough to not realise what he's doing is a crime and completely unacceptable, that really is a load of bollocks.

I'm not saying his parents are blameless but people go on like it's impossible to not turn to this kind of thing if you've had a tough upbringing - and that really is bullshit.

[Captain...]

Are you for real?

This is no mistake at all. This is absolutely taking the piss, he's done it 278 (and I bet more) times for fvck sake. That's not a mistake, that's absolutely taking the piss and he shouldn't even be considered.

Think of the long term effects;

a) Lad is given help - He more than likely will re-offend yet he's still pretty much dodged punishment for upsetting hundreds, even thousands, for taking things that these people have worked for, for what reason? Self gain because he doesn't have to do anything for it. If it gets out that he's got away with it, how many of his type are gonna think they can actually make a living out of this kind of thing? A fair few.

b) Lad is locked up and severely punished - Justice still isn't done as it would take beyond a miracle to recover all the misery he's put these people through, people would look and think "wow, what a shit life he's had, he's completely fvcked that one up" and wouldn't even dare trying to steal as there's this kind of risk.

Honestly I can see why people do it - at best you've landed yourself hundreds, maybe even thousands worth of goods for absolutely nothing, at worst you're offered help to change your ways. The thought of that cycle sinking in makes my skin crawl.

A major concern for me is the fact he's actually pulled it off that many times. That's actually quite incredible and it's absolutely embarrassing for the police force.

First of all he has not had a light sentence, he has lost 4 years of his life (may end up being 2, but that is not a guarantee) I'm not sure how old you are, but spending the age of 19-23 in jail is no light sentence, think back to everything you did in those years (if you are that old) that period was probably the most fun 4 years of my life, having that taken away is no light sentence.

Secondly I wouldn't be so sure that he has committed that many crimes, he has asked for them to be taken into account, because it won't make his sentence any tougher, it is more likely he admitted to them either to "help" the police close the file on a number of unsolved crimes, or to take the heat off his gang. He also will not have been doing these alone, do you really think a 12 year old could burgle a house with help.

As for making an example of him, do you really think anyone would give a shit if he was locked away for life, do you think that this happening would act as a deterant to hardened criminals? Or anyone else, do you really think that people see crime as a valid career choice? Or do you think they do it out of desperation?

He doesn't deserve people excusing him like this either.

Having a tough upbringing doesn't excuse being a criminal. Sadly it's being used as an excuse nowadays for shit like this and it really does do my head in, I'm sorry, but no-one even aged 12 is stupid enough to not realise what he's doing is a crime and completely unacceptable, that really is a load of bollocks.

I'm not saying his parents are blameless but people go on like it's impossible to not turn to this kind of thing if you've had a tough upbringing - and that really is bullshit.

Of course parents are responsible for the actions of a 12 year old, that is why you required to have a legal guardian until you are 16, saying he had a tough upbringing is not an excuse, but those who have been left behind by society and by the system at such an early age can be helped, can be brought back into the fold. Much easier than those that have had it all and still wanted more and become corrupt and deceitful lying cheating and stealing to get more and more, despite having more than enough to start with (lets call them bankers, or politicians) these people are greater criminals.

I don't believe this kid committed these crimes for money or power, I suspect he did it for survival, if you show him a way to survive without crime, and give the means and the tools to do so, then I don't doubt he will, providing there are jobs out there for him.

Lock him away for 4 years (read as 5, 10, 15 whatever years) without any sort of help, education, rehabilitation, then of course he will return to a life of crime as that is all he has known since he was 12.

The lack of compassion in this thread is quite disturbing, regardless of the number of crimes he admitted to, he is still a first time criminal, the first time he has been caught, and he deserves at least one shot at rehabilitation.

[Guest Col city fan]

The fact that there is no evidence either way is why I would rather help him than punish him.

If he had been given chances and help and he had thrown it back in their faces and reoffended repeatedly then I would understand people writing him off. But so far from what I've read he seems like a kid down on his luck and got mixed up with a bad crowd and has gone down the wrong path for a few years now.

I see no problem with his punishment, but I just find it quite depressing that people will write him off as a wrong un and a lost cause after a quarter of his life.

For this kid multiply it by thousands... Why give this one any special treatment? In fact, there are kids who could be caught much earlier in life before their criminal career is well established. It's about rationing...

At a time when the govt are cutting back on public spending (Social Services, Police, Quangos eg. Connexions, Mental Health Services) expect more of 'these kids' not less.

Your utopian view on society needs to be backed up by resources. It isn't.

Surely there's a better argument for focussing on kids at a younger age who's psyche isn't as damaged and who's criminal record is less severe. With these, you may have a chance.

[Captain...]

For this kid multiply it by thousands... Why give this one any special treatment? In fact, there are kids who could be caught much earlier in life before their criminal career is well established. It's about rationing...

At a time when the govt are cutting back on public spending (Social Services, Police, Quangos eg. Connexions, Mental Health Services) expect more of 'these kids' not less.

Your utopian view on society needs to be backed up by resources. It isn't.

Surely there's a better argument for focussing on kids at a younger age who's psyche isn't as damaged and who's criminal record is less severe. With these, you may have a chance.

Not going to disagree with you, there, I have said a number of times on here that rehabilitation and re-education shouldn't be reserved for convicted criminals.

But I don't see why any of that should mean this one doesn't get a chance at becoming a valid member of society, this would happen during the 2-4 years he spends inside. I am not really arguing that anything different should be done, than what is being done now, nor that he should be any sort of special case.

I am only taking issue with the people on here, yourself included, who think that they should lock him up and throw away the key.

[Nick]

In this space used to be a critical review of desistance theories.

Then I remembered this is Foxestalk and thought 'what's the point?'

Because even if people can be arsed to read it, they'll still just say 'let's throw away the key' and any change in life opportunities and social efficacy is left wing liberal clap trap.

So I'm not going to bother.

Let's agree to spend money blindly on young people at risk of or committing crime and execute the older ones as there is seemingly no point in helping lost causes...

After all, you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Eh Col.

Marbella Dave I'd love to hear more about people being beyond hope by the age of 19 - sounds like you've really thought about this one.