Leicester Teenager admits burgling 278 homes and stealing 60 cars

[Guest Col city fan]

No Col, the debate here is that you have written this kid off, and think he should be locked up and have the key thrown away, you mentioned nothing of distribution of limited resources when you said that, especially considering that keeping him incarcerated for lets say 50 years, average life expectancy, would be much more of a drain on the limited government funds you are so concerned about, than 2-4 years inside and then released back in to society to pay his way, earn money and contribute to the economy.

Unless you meant kill him, instead of lock him up and throw away the key.

What has happened here is that you realised you were wrong, an you were being a reactionary, and now want to change the debate to one you think will make paint you in a better light.

At least have the courage of your convictions Col.

I thought this was an ongoing debate/conversation. What do you want? Every poster to express every view in post 1.

If you read through the thread you will see that I have written this issue could be about the 'greater good'? How many lives does this kid and others have to ruin before they are taken out of broader society?

Incarceration isn't cheap but is it more expensive than many court cases, insurance claims, police time etc etc.. I don't know the answer to that but I would guess probably not?

And my comment on rationing was a general one. Rationing happens all the time.

Yes, I'd rather see the public purse being spent on other public issues and problems than on this kid.

My view on that hasn't changed?

My 'conviction' is there throughout the thread as far as I'm concerned.

You and Nick will of course say it isn't because that fits nearly into your argument.

You want to spend time effort and resources on a kid that has burgled 278 homes and stolen 60 cars? I'd rather spend time, effort and resources on cancer care or mental illness. These are tough decisions to take but need taking.

[Nick]

I thought this was an ongoing debate/conversation. What do you want? Every poster to express every view in post 1.

If you read through the thread y

.........maybe he typed himself to sleep? His head could have pressed 'post' as it hit the keyboard.

[Guest Col city fan]

It's the Col City way, when a question gets difficult or the argument runs into a brick wall, swerve and change the subject. If you say enough things enough times in many places threads and different ways at some point you'll be able to point where you were right.

I ain't even gonna bother to reply other than the apparent vendetta remains transparent and boring...

One day you apologise, the next you start again.

Keep at it if makes you feel better.

[Rincewind]

My friend mentioned above was telling me her daughter has only had one run in with the police and it was not really her fault. She was 16 at the time and walking home late at night when somebody grabbed her from behind. Being frightened she turned round and wallopped them. As a result she was arrested for asult and spent six hours in a police cell. She said it was the worst six hours of her life and vowed never to break the law.

Something like that would turn the majority of teenagers off the criminal lifestyle but with some it is forced upon them and once on the path they are trapped. That teenager knows little else. My friend said young poffenders institutions are not very strict so he would not have had much experience of real prison life. When he comes out he will still see his old mates and they won't try and pursuade him to change. The opposite and if an opportunity arises they will turn a blind eye as did his parents when he was younger.

He probably thinks his life is messed up and believes nobody cares about him so why not carry on?

Until somebody steps in and convinces him that his life does have value and there is a way out he will not change.

How do you think he will feel if a social worker said to him 'You are a lost cause and I am giving up with you.'

[Zingari]

I was with somebody today that has worked with young offenders. I showed her this thread and she liked Nicks posts. She said it was rubbish to say that at age 19 you should give up with them.

I also know someone that work with the prison service with rehabitation. He visits prisons parole officers and has the backing of governors and high officials with the work and his colleagues do. They work within the system so know what they are talking about and know what works and what doesn't.

If you wish to argue against it and have valid and constructive opinions the Inside N Out web site and magazine welcomes feedback. They welcome opinions and suggestions on how they could do things better from anyone with greater knowledge and expertise of the subject.

Any takers?

To be honest , if you’re going to ask someone who works with young offenders if what they are doing is having a good effect and changing they’re lives around , they’re hardly likely to say , “ No actually we are wasting our fookin time with these wastrels†are they ?

[Guest Col city fan]

.........maybe he typed himself to sleep? His head could have pressed 'post' as it hit the keyboard.

Kinda makes my point...

[Rincewind]

To be honest , if you’re going to ask someone who works with young offenders if what they are doing is having a good effect and changing they’re lives around , they’re hardly likely to say , “ No actually we are wasting our fookin time with these wastrels†are they ?

Maybe instead of asking him you should spend a week with him and find out what he actually does which is not sitting on his backside thinking I'm glad those people don't live next door to me.'

[Webbo]

It's a tad more complicated than that, hence asking for the specifics - don't let the detail get in the way of a good stone throwing exercise.

I made a generalised reply to a generalised comment. If you wanted a specific reply you should have made a specific comment.

But seeing as you work in this field which type of offenders have seen dramatic falls in re-offending?

[Zingari]

Maybe instead of asking him you should spend a week with him and find out what he actually does which is not sitting on his backside thinking I'm glad those people don't live next door to me.'

My point was just that because he thinks he and his fellow workers are doing a good job and turning they're lives around for the better , doesn't make it so .

Many of these criminals know just how to act , how to behave and what to say in front of them and then come out sniggering.

Many of my friends ( long ago)used to brag about how easy it was to pull the wool over their eyes .

I'm not saying no good comes from it though

[Rincewind]

http://inomagnewsage...blogspot.co.uk/

http://www.citizenseye.org/?p=14597

[skinnydipper]

15 years working in various roles in the Criminal Justice System would suggest you again, don't know what you are talking about.

Spill the beans then Nick.

What do you do and what other roles have you had ?

[Nick]

Spill the beans then Nick.

What do you do and what other roles have you had ?

I'm not going there.

[Nick]

I made a generalised reply to a generalised comment. If you wanted a specific reply you should have made a specific comment.

But seeing as you work in this field which type of offenders have seen dramatic falls in re-offending?

Quite simply, stating that "To be fair they haven't had much success" seems completely reasonable to challenge?

[skinnydipper]

I'm not going there.

Fair enough.

Must admit, I'd never heard of "criminogenic" so I'll assume you weren't employed to help out at the WRVS coffee shop at the court.

Hazard a guess at something to do with probation at some point.

[Nick]

I ain't even gonna bother to reply other than the apparent vendetta remains transparent and boring...

One day you apologise, the next you start again.

Keep at it if makes you feel better.

No vendetta.

7300 + posts in 18 months and most of them frustrate me.

It's not you, it's just the stuff you type becomes so infuriating my coping mechanism is to laugh at it or mock - there's no escaping it - it's in every thread!

[Nick]

Fair enough.

Must admit, I'd never heard of "criminogenic" so I'll assume you weren't employed to help out at the WRVS coffee shop at the court.

Hazard a guess at something to do with probation at some point.

I loved those Ladies - good soup and hot chocolate back in the day.

[Captain...]

I thought this was an ongoing debate/conversation. What do you want? Every poster to express every view in post 1.

If you read through the thread you will see that I have written this issue could be about the 'greater good'? How many lives does this kid and others have to ruin before they are taken out of broader society?

Incarceration isn't cheap but is it more expensive than many court cases, insurance claims, police time etc etc.. I don't know the answer to that but I would guess probably not?

And my comment on rationing was a general one. Rationing happens all the time.

Yes, I'd rather see the public purse being spent on other public issues and problems than on this kid.

My view on that hasn't changed?

My 'conviction' is there throughout the thread as far as I'm concerned.

You and Nick will of course say it isn't because that fits nearly into your argument.

You want to spend time effort and resources on a kid that has burgled 278 homes and stolen 60 cars? I'd rather spend time, effort and resources on cancer care or mental illness. These are tough decisions to take but need taking.

Col, the distribution of resources argument is bollocks, and you know it, either way money will be spent on this kid, either through punishment, rehabilitation or a combination of the 2.

Tell me this what benefit is there in keeping him locked up for the rest of his life, at great cost to the tax payer? It may stop some people being burgled, but what do you think will happen when he is released? He will just be packed off and then ignored? He will be monitored by police, he will be picked up and questioned regularly about burglaries, he will have a probation officer trying to help him find work and become a valued member of society, help him claim benefits and support himself legally.

I don't know if it is common practice, but if I believed he was a high risk to commit more crimes I would fit him with an electronic tag, so it could easily be proved if he was at the scene of a crime and be found and dealt with quickly, to me that would be a more effective way of stopping him committing crimes without, locking him up and throwing away the key, Nick I don't know if you know if that is possible likely or even legal.

On to your point about the distribution of resources, crime, criminals and the social problems which cause it are one of the greater ills of our society and ones that can be fixed, and it is a better use of tax payers money than your typically emotive examples, Cancer research is not being held up by a lack of funds, Cancer research charities are some of the most over funded charities, it is not for a lack of money, but a lack of time, knowledge and expertise, that is why we haven't found a cure for cancer yet. We have found a cure for petty crime, it is called policing, education and social welfare, but we don't have the funds to implement these schemes, but that is a different issue than that of how to deal with a first time teenage offender.

[skinnydipper]

I loved those Ladies - good soup and hot chocolate back in the day.

True, but given half the chance they'd have sent anyone down for a long stretch before you could say "Throwawaythekey"

[Guest Col city fan]

No vendetta.

7300 + posts in 18 months and most of them frustrate me.

It's not you, it's just the stuff you type becomes so infuriating my coping mechanism is to laugh at it or mock - there's no escaping it - it's in every thread!

There's always been a vendetta. You even pop my name up in threads that I haven't even contributed to. It's crystal clear, uncalled for and boring. Just pop me on ignore, like you said you had? and we're both happier. You won't read what you don't wanna read and I want have to read that have read what you don't wanna read.

Simple mi ode.

Like I said before, you've been called 'Nasty Nick' on this forum. How about trying to change? Rehab?

[Nick]

True, but given half the chance they'd have sent anyone down for a long stretch before you could say "Throwawaythekey"

I never sourced their political views - just enjoyed the hot drinks!

[Nick]

There's always been a vendetta. You even pop my name up in threads that I haven't even contributed to. It's crystal clear, uncalled for and boring. Just pop me on ignore, like you said you had? and we're both happier. You won't read what you don't wanna read and I want have to read that have read what you don't wanna read.

Simple mi ode.

Like I said before, you've been called 'Nasty Nick' on this forum. How about trying to change? Rehab?

It's not you Col, it's all me. Don't go changing.

[Guest Col city fan]

Col, the distribution of resources argument is bollocks, and you know it, either way money will be spent on this kid, either through punishment, rehabilitation or a combination of the 2.

Tell me this what benefit is there in keeping him locked up for the rest of his life, at great cost to the tax payer? It may stop some people being burgled, but what do you think will happen when he is released? He will just be packed off and then ignored? He will be monitored by police, he will be picked up and questioned regularly about burglaries, he will have a probation officer trying to help him find work and become a valued member of society, help him claim benefits and support himself legally.

I don't know if it is common practice, but if I believed he was a high risk to commit more crimes I would fit him with an electronic tag, so it could easily be proved if he was at the scene of a crime and be found and dealt with quickly, to me that would be a more effective way of stopping him committing crimes without, locking him up and throwing away the key, Nick I don't know if you know if that is possible likely or even legal.

On to your point about the distribution of resources, crime, criminals and the social problems which cause it are one of the greater ills of our society and ones that can be fixed, and it is a better use of tax payers money than your typically emotive examples, Cancer research is not being held up by a lack of funds, Cancer research charities are some of the most over funded charities, it is not for a lack of money, but a lack of time, knowledge and expertise, that is why we haven't found a cure for cancer yet. We have found a cure for petty crime, it is called policing, education and social welfare, but we don't have the funds to implement these schemes, but that is a different issue than that of how to deal with a first time teenage offender.

Cancer care was merely one of the neccessary causes I mentioned (do you ever actually read anything through and not pick up on something to foster your own argument mate)?

We just have to agree to disagree. You must be a genuinely heartfelt and altruistic chap. Good for you to be fair!

It's not you Col, it's all me. Don't go changing.

Phew... We've cleared that up...

[Guest]

Without getting into the specifics of this particular case, I think the "liberals" of which I class myself must not forget the innocent victims of the crimes.

[AoWW]

No vendetta.

7300 + posts in 18 months and most of them frustrate me.

It's not you, it's just the stuff you type becomes so infuriating my coping mechanism is to laugh at it or mock - there's no escaping it - it's in every thread!

Seriously, can you not just put him on ignore if it's all so frustrating?

[Nick]

Cancer care was merely one of the neccessary causes I mentioned (do you ever actually read anything through and not pick up on something to foster your own argument mate)?

We just have to agree to disagree. You must be a genuinely heartfelt and altruistic chap. Good for you to be fair!

Phew... We've cleared that up...

And do you see why your posts frustrate?

A poster has dissected what you have written, challenged and asked you to justify your ridiculous argument and you respond by asking a question and making an aside comment then have the audacity to accuse said poster of not reading and comprehending what you have written.

You then want me to leave you alone and finish up suggesting I am nasty and require rehab.

What you type is basically astonishing Col.