Only in the Guardian.

[Rincewind]

I have started to buy Private Eye. Some good paradys  and wind ups in there. I have only skimmed over it and my first reaction was that it was OTT as it is only a kids program and they still have kids thoughts. Cartoons, playing, getting dirty and sweets.

But as it is the Guardian I expect a little satire and mocking.

[Vacamion]

Being a white straight male still gives you a certain level of privilege and opportunity in this country that others don't have.

 

 

 

I can't help (and wouldn't change) being a straight white male any more than an afro-caribbean lesbian would change who she is.

 

Also, I can't reasonably be held responsible for the injustices of the past.

 

I appreciate entirely that being a straight white male was a massive (and utterly unjust) advantage for many many years, but I would suggest that being a straight white male has gradually become less and less of an advantage after the culture wars of the mid 1990s. 

 

Demonising straight white guys nowadays is just as wrong as demonising minority race/sexual prefence was in the past (and remains).

[leicsmac]

I can't help (and wouldn't change) being a straight white male any more than an afro-caribbean lesbian would change who she is.

 

Also, I can't reasonably be held responsible for the injustices of the past.

 

I appreciate entirely that being a straight white male was a massive (and utterly unjust) advantage for many many years, but I would suggest that being a straight white male has gradually become less and less of an advantage after the culture wars of the mid 1990s. 

 

Demonising straight white guys nowadays is just as wrong as demonising minority race/sexual prefence was in the past (and remains).

 

No disagreement with most of that - I'm a strong believer in individual responsibility (with certain exceptions) so when people attempt any kind of generalisations on any demographic it gets under my skin. Believing that straight white guys are all corrupt, venal, inherently prejudiced racists is just as any other kind of racism. Like the recent #yesallwomen hashtag on Twitter - great idea but far too many people used it to demonise all men and I had people telling me that if I didn't automatically be of that opinion I was an 'enabler'. Bollocks.

 

I think the idea of straight white male privilege has lessened recently, but it's still there, especially in the workplace and in hiring practices. I can't believe that the amount of straight white guys in high positions in major companies is down to pure meritocracy, not with the percentage as high as it is. I'd be happy to be proved wrong, though.

[Guest MattP]

Ugh. It's no wonder we're becoming a more right-wing nation when people like this are seen as being representative of the left. Fvcks sake.

 

It's midly amusing, Penny Red, Owen Jones etc etc Are there any straight left wingers left? Every single one that is shoved on the TV these days seems to be.

 

Being a white straight male still gives you a certain level of privilege and opportunity in this country that others don't have.

 

Do you really still believe this in this day and age?

 

If you want to go to university you have organisations that will pay for if you are black, if you want to join the police force you are fastracked if you are ethnic or gay due to 'positive discrimination',  if you are a woman or not white and join a political party you will be send straight into important positions if you are any good as they are all desperate to show how diverse they are.

 

How do you explain how white working class boys are doing worse than anyone at school, if teachers think like this I think we know the answer.

 

Apart from the fact a small minority white people might have richer parents than their ethnic counterparts I really don't see much white privledge around, if being a white straight male really is an advantage then how you explain Rincewind?

 

I don't know what it's like in Korea, but If you still think white privledge is around for the most of us, you need to come out of the 80's and into 2014.

 

Or maybe people can't see parody or a wind-up.  And take everything they read seriously.

 

Have you not read her website Vac posted? It clearly isn't a wind up.

 

You want to be careful, when you have to start deliberately ignoring the obvious to continue to believe what you think it doesn't generally end well.

[absolutelegend]

I would love to know why anybody would ever buy the guardian.

Who wants "news" that is delivered to them in an incredibly biased and agenda driven manner?

What wrong with reporting facts and letting people decide their own opinions, rather than being told what their views should be.

News for the extremely simple.

[Vacamion]

I think the idea of straight white male privilege has lessened recently, but it's still there, especially in the workplace and in hiring practices. I can't believe that the amount of straight white guys in high positions in major companies is down to pure meritocracy, not with the percentage as high as it is. I'd be happy to be proved wrong, though.

 

I agree to the extent that senior positions in large companies still have some way to go. I don't think that "positive discrimination" (what an oxymoron!) is the answer, though. Equality will continue to increase as the "old guard" enter old age and retire.

 

At entry level, on the other hand, the odds appear to be stacked against white straight males.  You can't apply for a job these days without being asked about your ethnicity or sexuality. They ain't asking because they are counting numbers. Regrettably, they are asking because they want to fulfil quotas.

 

My missus is mixed race, but soooo mixed that she always struggled with which box to tick on the Census.  She tended to tick "Scottish / British" because her Dad was white Scottish and she never thought much of it or was that fussed about it. When applying for Public Sector jobs, however, she couldn't get near an interview until I told her to tick the "mixed race" box.  Sure enough, she got interviews after that.  

 

That's just so wrong.

 

The anti-white, anti-straight, anti-male discrimination inherent in right-on Guardianista journalism and Public Sector recruiting policy merely serves to foster resentment and actually harms the core message that discrimination is wrong.

[leicsmac]

 

Do you really still believe this in this day and age?

 

If you want to go to university you have organisations that will pay for if you are black, if you want to join the police force you are fastracked if you are ethnic or gay due to 'positive discrimination',  if you are a woman or not white and join a political party you will be send straight into important positions if you are any good as they are all desperate to show how diverse they are.

 

How do you explain how white working class boys are doing worse than anyone at school, if teachers think like this I think we know the answer.

 

Apart from the fact a small minority white people might have richer parents than their ethnic counterparts I really don't see much white privledge around, if being a white straight male really is an advantage then how you explain Rincewind?

 

I don't know what it's like in Korea, but If you still think white privledge is around for the most of us, you need to come out of the 80's and into 2014.

 

 

I wouldn't mind seeing the stats on education regarding demographics - the last time I checked it was young working class black boys that were doing the worst.

 

As regards 'positive discrimination', Vacamion says above pretty much what I want to say. I don't agree with it, but is there another way to ensure hiring processes aren't discriminatory based on the people already there? Hopefully soon workplaces will have enough equal representation at a management level that we can get rid of it.

 

At a social level too, white straight guys don't get catcalled (women), don't have some people thinking they're 'suicide bombers' on account of what they look like (Asian/Arabic), and the dozen other stereotypes there are for different demographics.

 

Believe it or not, there are still some perks to being a white guy in the UK - unless things really have drastically changed in the last 9 months.

 

I agree to the extent that senior positions in large companies still have some way to go. I don't think that "positive discrimination" (what an oxymoron!) is the answer, though. Equality will continue to increase as the "old guard" enter old age and retire.

 

At entry level, on the other hand, the odds appear to be stacked against white straight males.  You can't apply for a job these days without being asked about your ethnicity or sexuality. They ain't asking because they are counting numbers. Regrettably, they are asking because they want to fulfil quotas.

 

My missus is mixed race, but soooo mixed that she always struggled with which box to tick on the Census.  She tended to tick "Scottish / British" because her Dad was white Scottish and she never thought much of it or was that fussed about it. When applying for Public Sector jobs, however, she couldn't get near an interview until I told her to tick the "mixed race" box.  Sure enough, she got interviews after that.  

 

That's just so wrong.

 

The anti-white, anti-straight, anti-male discrimination inherent in right-on Guardianista journalism and Public Sector recruiting policy merely serves to foster resentment and actually harms the core message that discrimination is wrong.

 

No disagreement there.

[ADK]

Unless you've lived as a white person and then as a black person and then as a woman and then as gay person you can't really know.

[Rincewind]

Unless you've lived as a white person and then as a black person and then as a woman and then as gay person you can't really know.

That would mean being open minded and having empathy.

[Guest MattP]

I wouldn't mind seeing the stats on education regarding demographics - the last time I checked it was young working class black boys that were doing the worst.

 

As regards 'positive discrimination', Vacamion says above pretty much what I want to say. I don't agree with it, but is there another way to ensure hiring processes aren't discriminatory based on the people already there? Hopefully soon workplaces will have enough equal representation at a management level that we can get rid of it.

 

At a social level too, white straight guys don't get catcalled (women), don't have some people thinking they're 'suicide bombers' on account of what they look like (Asian/Arabic), and the dozen other stereotypes there are for different demographics.

 

Believe it or not, there are still some perks to being a white guy in the UK - unless things really have drastically changed in the last 9 months.

 

Name them, I'd really be interested.

 

Straight white guys don't get catcalled? Some do believe me, I've seen guys groped in offices by women barely five years ago. Do you really think if Brad Pitt walked through a gay pride march he wouldn't get a bit of unwanted attention? As for stereotypes, have a wander around Small Heath with a group of white males and see if you'll be left alone.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/white-working-class-boys-bottom-of-the-class-in-english-1709508.html - Tons of these articles online with a quick google, it's no surprise though if a lot of teachers hold the opinion these are privledged over others, just like a lot of working class white estates, they have probably been left to rot by them.

[Guest MattP]

Unless you've lived as a white person and then as a black person and then as a woman and then as gay person you can't really know.

 

I imagine some truth in this, which it's why it's so bizarre so many white people start to listen when the Diane Abbott's of the World decide to tell us all how easy if would be to be white. Ignoring the delicious irony that she would be working in primark had she been pale herself instead of taking advantage of the Labour parties crusade for more importance to be put on diversity than actual talent.

 

 

That would mean being open minded and having empathy.

 

 

Tell us about your days as a gay person and black women Ken, how many have you sank today?

[Dan]

I just hope for her sake she hasn't come across South Park

[leicsmac]

Name them, I'd really be interested.

 

Straight white guys don't get catcalled? Some do believe me, I've seen guys groped in offices by women barely five years ago. Do you really think if Brad Pitt walked through a gay pride march he wouldn't get a bit of unwanted attention? As for stereotypes, have a wander around Small Heath with a group of white males and see if you'll be left alone.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/white-working-class-boys-bottom-of-the-class-in-english-1709508.html - Tons of these articles online with a quick google, it's no surprise though if a lot of teachers hold the opinion these are privledged over others, just like a lot of working class white estates, they have probably been left to rot by them.

 

The fact that discrimination doesn't happen nearly as often both socially and career wise? The idea that you can say what you are and who you screw and only a tiny minority of people are going to judge you for it in the same way as you were in any different demographic, compared to far more judgement for them. Unless, of course, you play by the rules and stick to the 'assigned' roles for your gender or sexuality, or try to ape 'normal' behaviour as much as possible. 

 

The fact that you're having to speak of isolated places and incidents alone means that discrimination and the kind of things that happen to other demographics do not happen to white straight guys nearly as much.

 

I'm not saying straight white guys don't cop discrimination and abuse - they clearly do, the incidents you mentioned as well as the statistically significant incidence of female-on-male domestic abuse speaks for itself. But it pales in comparison with the discrimination and verbal and sometimes physical abuse that practically every other demographic suffers, even now. It's getting better, but the balance is still seriously skewed.

 

Of course, as I said earlier, the lefty fashionable crowd saying that the white straight man is the root of all evil are idiots, too. That's just exactly the same kind of judgemental crap, and it's wrong. 

 

If you don't think there's still a problem regarding it or you think that white straight men are being 'marginalised' in a way similar to other demographics in the past then fair enough - we'll have to agree to disagree. 

 

As for the performance stats in schools, that seems to be some compelling evidence regarding one subject, but I'm going to have a look for more detailed data regarding the other subjects before casting aspersions either way.

[Guest MattP]

Problem is you have no evidence to back these claims up anymore, the fact discrimination doesn't happen career wise? I'd say as a qualified accountant in Leicester I'm probably more likely to face problems in that area than an Asian would.

 

If you actually look at the statistics of race crimes in this day and age you'll see that whites actually suffer far more racist attacks per person than any other demographic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

The British Crime Survey reveals that in 2004, 87,000 people from black or minority ethnic communities said they had been a victim of a racially motivated crime. They had suffered 49,000 violent attacks, with 4,000 being wounded. At the same time 92,000 white people said they had also fallen victim of a racially motivated crime

 

Those stats are incredible when you consider 90% of the country is actually white, It's another liberal middle class fantasy from 20 years back that the whites are still going around 'paki bashing' whilst everyone else is good as gold. How people can still spread this myth that being a white man hides you from this is quite incredible. (and this is also considering attacks like the one we saw in Leicester where four muslims beat up a white girl wasn't even considered as racist)

 

Even in 2006 nearly half of racist murders were on white victims but obviously attitudes won't change when the public is brainwashed into thinking every racist murder is akin to a Stephen Lawrence type. - http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/oct/22/ukcrime.race 

 

It really is about time the left as a whole stopped this nonsense.

[Strokes]

Come on Percy you little green twát, back in the shed.

[leicsmac]

Problem is you have no evidence to back these claims up anymore, the fact discrimination doesn't happen career wise? I'd say as a qualified accountant in Leicester I'm probably more likely to face problems in that area than an Asian would.

 

If you actually look at the statistics of race crimes in this day and age you'll see that whites actually suffer far more racist attacks per person than any other demographic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

 

Those stats are incredible when you consider 90% of the country is actually white, It's another liberal middle class fantasy from 20 years back that the whites are still going around 'paki bashing' whilst everyone else is good as gold. How people can still spread this myth that being a white man hides you from this is quite incredible. (and this is also considering attacks like the one we saw in Leicester where four muslims beat up a white girl wasn't even considered as racist)

 

Even in 2006 nearly half of racist murders were on white victims but obviously attitudes won't change when the public is brainwashed into thinking every racist murder is akin to a Stephen Lawrence type. - http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/oct/22/ukcrime.race 

 

It really is about time the left as a whole stopped this nonsense.

 

There is a different set of statistics for more recent times here.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/statistics-on-race-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2012

 

Looking at the 'Victims once or more of a race related offence' spreadsheet table 2.01, for the year 2012/13...

 

 ALL 5.2% 　 White 5.0% Non-white total 6.8% Black 7.2% Asian 6.4% Mixed 11.1% Chinese/Other 4.2%

 

So you are probably right in that more white people total have been victims of a racially motivated crime, but the actual percentages (and therefore the overall likelihood) is actually a bit lower than for other demographics (other than the Chinese, interestingly enough).

 

As for murder victims, I quote from the survey: "However, the relationship between victim and principal suspect varied across ethnic groups. In the three-year period from 2009/10 to 2011/12, for victims of White ethnic appearance the largest proportion of principal suspects were from the victim’s own family; for victims of Black ethnic appearance, the largest proportion of principal suspects were a friend or acquaintance of the victim; while for victims of Asian ethnic appearance, the largest proportion of principal suspects were strangers."

 

That seems to suggest that for every ethnic group apart from Asians, the biggest problems come from within their own race.

 

That one Gov page alone has a lot of stats - well worth checking out.

 

In any case, I'm not really talking about crimes per se - I'm talking about the attitude and interactions of people towards you in general society. I feel very much that walking around as anything other than a white male in the vast majority of areas of the UK I'd feel more vulnerable than I do now. Of course I have nothing but anecdotal evidence for that, but I honestly think that outside of a few select areas the chance of you getting verballed in the street (for instance) is next to zero, whereas if you are a lady, an ethnic minority or openly gay the odds are rather higher. I do count certain areas of Leicester where as a white guy I would feel more vulnerable, but that's tiny compared to the areas of the UK where I would feel safer.

 

As for career discrimination - that's one thing neither of us have anything but anecdotal evidence to back up, I'm thinking. As I said above, I do agree that 'positive discrimination' is a big factor at entry level, but it's not at higher level, not at the majority of companies anyway.

 

Just as a final thing - I want to make it clear that I think no group is really clean in this, there's some repugnant abuse that all groups get up to. I just think that being a white male in the vast majority of the UK means you're onto a good thing.

 

Of course, feel free to disagree. :pint: