leicsmac

Get back to me when the debate about gender is more damaging in terms of policy than climate change denial or anti-vaccine sentiment, among other ideas. No disagreement whatsoever about muddying the water, and I think we've talked about this before - when it comes to truth, that cannot be subject just to the highest bidder as then you're just telling people what they want to hear rather than what really is. Fair point on more bravery being required, too - though lest we forget, Trump was and is categorically lying about the 2020 election and he did incite what was functionally a coup attempt on January 6th 2021. That is a matter of record from various other sources, regardless of what the Beeb have done.

Lot of that going around in a lot of different areas. With consequences.

And thus we circle back around to the entire idea of truth being subverted, as discussed earlier. There are people who simply believe as they wish, and not even the most exacting scientific peer-reviewed research will convince them otherwise - in fact, they consider that entire process to also be corrupt. That entire disregard of the best method of divining truth (by far) in the name of "freedom of thought/opinion" when applied to action, particularly policy action, has never ended well before and will end worse in the future.

This answer stands.

Only some think that a lot of peer reviewed scientific output is to be utterly disregarded in terms of policymaking.

And be that as it may (and it's a fair comment), it might still be a good idea not to hamstring one of the best allies that still remain against the loathsome sentiment that people like Trump champion that, if left unchecked, will consume us all.

A viewpoint it appears quite a few people share. I'm not entirely sure that wider context on the matter should be considered totally unimportant, though.

That's true, especially the vital role part - because, again, no one wins if we no longer have at least something approaching a single point of truth from which to draw and act. No one.

Because the left wing want to see it unbiased. The right wing want to see it abolished, or at least consumed by commercial, short-term self interested cause, in the same way a lot of the print media that criticise it are. That's a pretty critical difference. The very idea of truth is being subverted, it has been for some time, and it is not just disconcerting, but also deeply dangerous for any kind of future, that people are selecting the wrong targets - or are being manipulated into doing so.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2y1z70lwlo The US Supreme Court has decided not to revisit its ruling a decade ago legalising same-sex marriage. The justices turned down an appeal from Kim Davis, who was ordered by a lower court to pay compensation to a same-sex couple after refusing to grant them a marriage licence. Ms Davis argued that same-sex marriage conflicted with her beliefs as an Apostolic Christian. The 2015 ruling in the case of Obergefell v Hodges was a historic victory for LGBT rights in the US, but some conservatives argue it dealt a blow to religious liberty. A rare piece of unexpected, but very welcome, news.

Additionally, how is it not obvious that Trump's lies are far more consequential, far more damaging, and therefore far more attention worthy?

This. Fire with fire.

Again, noted and in all likelihood correct, but that is far from the only factor at play here.

No reason to doubt what this guy says whatever. However, it does rather infer that there's only one form or angle of activism that is pertinent here and requires addressing.

Absolutely. It was called by Kojima 25 years ago, too.

No disagreement there, but I'm still looking for the best way forward here that doesn't inevitably end in the very idea of truth becoming more subverted than it already is (with all the consequences that entails), in spite of what the Beeb have done here.

That would be true if it were proven in any way that such trust was actually achievable and good faith reporting would actually sway the minds of enough people. Is it, in this era and in this situation? I'm honestly not sure.

FYP, I hope you don't mind.

Yeah, it does. To elaborate; the deeper problem is the rather obvious imbalance caused by one side pulling itself up for a single lie (if one can even call it that) when the other side engages in multiple far bigger lies (at least two or three in those social media quotes alone) and abuses of power which are far more consequential to us all, with seeming impunity. If that isn't addressed, it doesn't really matter how the BBC chooses to conduct itself.

As much as this is accurate, the problems run rather deeper than that.

The reaction of both the current US administration and their sycophants in the British political system over here pretty much make the point that, while the two resignations were doing the right thing, it has precious little utility with respect to having the Beeb serve its vital part in the purpose of neutralising such people.

No, they aren't. The stereotype of the typical Trump supporter isn't quite accurate. The culture of individualism over there has linked with social media, among other influences, to produce a style of social Darwinism that believes both in the supremacy of the particular individual, and also the particular demographic. These people are very smart, very calculated, and have rather successfully manipulated enough people into buying into those supremacist ideals. They genuinely believe that the future belongs to their "tribe", their "tribe" alone, and every other human being, every other living being come to that, is subordinate to them and to that process. Trump is just the figurehead that embodies that ideal. Of course, the whole thing is both so morally messed up and so practically incompatible with any kind of good future it isn't even funny, but as per above, one day I wouldn't mind hearing a cogent counterargument, because I genuinely want to understand.

You know it, I know it and a lot of people seem to know it. However, there appear to be quite a few people (hence the voting figures for the man) who think that there is justification. Perhaps one day we'll hear an explanation that goes beyond deflection, gaslighting and blame-shifting.

Isn't that the damn truth. It can be tiring, sometimes, to fight the good fight. Given what's happened today, it has to be on the Beeb.

Agreed, though I would like to see that reckoning happen here, for all to see, rather than if and in wherever the Beyond is.