inckley fox

I'm guessing there won't be a plane for this one.

Completely. He did what Ayew always does. We just never needed an Ayew, and have resented the fact that we were lumbered with one ever since. Understandably. Really good, balanced post, by the way.

Mavididi wasn't excellent that year, and he's been a disaster ever since. Winks was good for half a season. Our results with him in the side, over two thirds of his time at the club, have been vastly inferior to our results without him. He's fallen out with the fans and three different managers, and been a mainstay of our greatest collapse ever, in almost 150 years. One of the major culprits. Cannon's sell-on was fine, agreed, but I missed those good contributions you speak of. He got a goal or two, but never looked like a good spot. Coady, as you said, was a disaster. All of that, in total, amounts to almost 40m in misspent funds which could have been used to comprehensively rebuild our squad with the long-term in mind. Instead, it went on duds and short-term fixes, designed to bolster a vision of football which was never viable if/when we got promoted. The highlights were Fatawu - one of the most selfish players I've ever seen and, in spite of his wonderful highlights reel, not particularly of any benefit to our team-play even in the second tier this season - and Hermansen, who is a decent enough keeper, but by no means a world-beater. I wouldn't be getting the bugle out to parp over Glover/Maresca's marketplace masterstrokes.

I went over the top in my criticism of him yesterday... But no. We've had some great and very successful RBs down the years. Most of his time with us hasn't been especially illustrious, and he hasn't been especially good either. That's not to detract from his first two seasons though.

Was he really that good in those stats? I'll bow to your superior knowledge, but it surprises me. He was good of course. For a bit. And then, largely due to injuries, mostly crap.

He didn't do all that well with Maresca either.

Sheffield United, 2-5. Gary Fitzpatrick was our best player and we never saw him again. The Double Decker was full of Sheffield United fans, who were actually really decent chaps by and large. Harry Bassett was their boss, and I think there's an old doc on Youtube somewhere which shows him in the dressing room, being very very Dave Bassett. I got to know the ref years later too. Also a very nice chap. I can't remember who scored our goals. I think Marc North died only a few years later, sadly. His last game for us was the Oxford win (so, quite a heroic high to go out on) but, in an indication that lots of individuals get to play at this level without being anywhere near league standard, he spent his final years in local football. Patson Daka take note. As for our RB that day, it must have been Ali Mauchlen, surely? Quite the contrast with Ricardo.

Well, not arguing there.

I suppose the benefits gained from cheating impact on the football.

Ooh, I think you're wrong there. Every Forest fan I knew swore he was crap. He came to us at 28, give or take, and had quite the resurgence. He wasn't better than Ricardo, of course. But he did score a beauty vs Watford in, I don't know, 1990. And won player of the year twice. And led us out at Wembley in 1994.

Danny Simpson, maybe? I don't know. But but but... I should apologise for the tirade. I spent an evening with a very smug Derby fan and seem to have taken it out on Ricardo. Quite a rabid rant, wasn't it? We all have the capacity to surprise ourselves. At his peak he was one of the finest - more cultured than Simpson, obviously - so I'm not sure what came over me. If I'd been drunk it would have made more sense. I wish him the very best. Even if he was an exceptionally crap captain, and even if that interview he gave the other day wound me up to the point of distraction. Edit: regarding best RB, the poster who mentioned Pontus has an excellent point. Like you, I'm 46, so we both remember his heyday. You might even remember Marc North...

I mean, even in my time, he's not the best right back we've had. In recent years he's been one of the worst, while for a short time early doors, yes, he was very good. But come on. He's literally our worst ever captain, and the right back in our worst ever team. Character wise, you listen to him and it's easy to see why we're in such a state. A miserably lacklustre, lily-livered individual who has long since wanted out. Literally one of the worst performers in the worst side in our nearly-150 year history. To say he's a better RB than the world class or PL-winning players (who never suffered back to back relegations, and actually won things) we've had in that position, from Adam Black in the 1920s to those in living memory, is one hell of a stretch. As much as Leicester fans, for a very short period of time (when we weren't actually competing for accolades), argued that he was world class, the truth was that he couldn't even establish himself in the Portugal squad ahead of Cancelo or Dalot. He's one of the few common denominators in our post-2021 downfall, and when I hear him speak, I can see why. We got a good year and a half out of him, but replaced him before the FA Cup win (half a decade ago). Please, let's not delude ourselves that anyone in this current batch of dossers is a club legend. It just makes LCFC as an entity seem even s****er than it actually is.

Well, we had a good year-and-a-half out of him in which he was a very able successor to Simpson. The other six-and-a-half years have been more down than up, and he captained our worst ever side. His interviews, to me, betray a person whose lack of moral fibre more than counterbalanced his one-time considerable talent. But maybe it's unfair of me to think that one of our most senior players who said he wanted out last summer - in spite of nobody being remotely interested in taking him off our hands - is part of the cultural and economic problem which has finally consumed our club. If he's one of our best ever five players (ahead of the entire league-winning side, and Muzzy / Walsh / Lineker / Smith / Worthington / Weller / Glover / Gibson / Cross / McLintock / Banks / Shilton / Rowley / Chandler / Black / Adcock / Duncan / Hine etc.) then that'd be fairly damning. I think we've offered more as a club than people as meek as Ricardo (who was neither a league nor an FA Cup winner, and to me represents the era of favouring technical ability over strength of character). But each to their own!

I live abroad, and people never cease asking me (or telling me) what Jamie's up to. He's a much bigger celeb than I'd thought. I reckon his story struck a chord or two, so maybe the wider audience is a bit wider than you'd think. Not that it's of any great interest to me personally. If he comes back and bangs in 40 goals in League One, playing for peanuts, then I suppose it'll matter, but I abhor reality TV.

I think the message being responded to was pretty aggressive, actually. If you start off any encounter by calling multiple people (in fact, the whole fanbase) hateful, and accusing them of wallowing in self-pity, then it's probably reasonable to expect a response. The poster came across as someone who detested Leicester City fans which, logically speaking, gives the impression that whatever they're a fan of, it isn't Leicester City. So I thought the response was relatively polite. In life in general, if you make a point you have to back it up with some kind of justification. If you can, it's a fully-formed opinion. If you can't, it's just posturing and chest-thumping. Somebody wrote something which was aggressive, baseless and a bit dumb. They can either leave it there or try to prove that there's more to them and their stance. And no, stating how long they've been a going to games doesn't count. My dad's been going since the 1950s and he still maintains that Mark McGhee was the architect of O'Neill's success, so it clearly means nothing (to his credit though, he does at least try his best to justify his opinion. He argues well, even if he's obviously wrong). But maybe some people aren't capable of justifying their viewpoint at all. Or maybe even they know that it doesn't make sense. For that reason, I'd like more of these KP loyalists to come on here and, instead of just saying 'you're all bloody fairweather fans' then sodding off, actually form a coherent argument. Some may well be reasonably convincing, but I have a feeling that in most cases it's a stance which - when subjected to reason - will dissolve on contact.

I honestly have no idea how that's happened! One of those glitch in the matrix moments.

Oh dear, I've just made several of your excellent points (after you!).

Some of it's good, but they should have run it past a few on here before writing that Rudkin helped set up the scouting network that brought in Mahrez, or that we should have sold Fatawu in 2023/24 (when we didn't own him) because EPL clubs were interested. That said, the general gist is about right. I'm being picky. Edit: I've just seen that Dan has already said all this and more. Apologies!

To me it'd be the same club. I'm sure Rangers is to Rangers fans and Fiorentina to Fiorentina fans. If there is a phoenix club and it's recognised as the successor it will be to all intents and purposes Leicester City. Its history will be bound to the current club and even of it doesn't inherit the accolades, which it may, it will be the moral owner of them, much like AFC Wimbledon is now (a fact complicated in their case by the old club still technically existing). Unless you're too bothered by the legal ins-and-outs of when a business itself was technically founded, it'll still be your club. Key names from its history will be there in the rebirth. The colours, the fans, maybe in time even the stadium will be the same. For those of us who say football is about the fans, not the business, or say it doesn't matter what league you're in, you still support your team, then here's a chance, perhaps, to walk the walk. And, on top of all that, it would be something totally new, a fascinating journey and a chance to get things right we once got wrong. It will generate unprecedented excitement and coverage for non-league football and, best of all, may even be a quicker path back to the big-time than wallowing for years in the lower leagues under Top. It's not what I want to happen, but if it does, I'm totally up for it.

You are right. But in 1914/15 we were also 39th in the overall league placings, which would have had us comfortably safe this season. So yes, there are two ways of looking at everything!

You make a really important point about both sides contributing to the toxicity. When people are saying 'KPFC fans shouldn't be welcome at any phoenix club' or accusing pro-KP fans of being the root of our problems (when in truth, compared to the immense incompetence in our club leadership and the apathetic culture among our playing staff, their unwavering support is hardly a major issue) it's adding to the toxicity. No doubt whatsoever. And at some point we're going to have to be willing to all support the same club, regardless of our views on the ownership. However, I'm starting to see more and more evidence that a great deal of aggression and anger and resentment is coming from the 'get behind the lads, no matter what' brigade. Katy's story, for instance, of totally unacceptable abuse for simply handing out Foxes Trust leaflets, mirrored what I've heard from others. I know that these people, as few of them as there may be left, feel they're behaving like 'true fans', but this kind of behaviour - and applauding Harry Winks' every touch, or the messaging we get from the official Supporter Club - doesn't look like what you'd expect from a real Leicester City fan to me. They dedicate their efforts to adulation for one of the biggest on-and-off field culprits for our decline, fully back a boardroom leading us to oblivion, placing their interests ahead of the club's welfare, and they bemoan the sorry state of our fanbase... Are you sure they're being such great fans in these regards? So I totally agree that those of us who want to hold Top and Rudkin responsible for their negligence should be conciliatory towards those who still back the ownership. But equally you have to remember that every football fan, journalist and pundit would think that the club has been badly mismanaged and that the default position, rather than singing the board's praises, would be to hold them to account. To be so resentful of those who are doing what pretty much everyone would expect a fan to be doing will, by its nature, pave the way for immense toxicity. It's a very extreme argument, in some ways. I understand that there are always fans who toe the party line no matter what. I've seen fans choosing not to participate in protests at plenty of other clubs, including Wednesday. That element always exists and some of the same key figures who remained pro-Shipman and Pleat back in 1990, and who have already clearly found themselves on the wrong side of history, are doing the same now. We shouldn't be surprised by this. But I'm starting to believe that the primal frustration we're seeing from these quarters now is symptomatic of what happens when people discover that a deeply held conviction has been proven wrong. How do Brexiteers who swore to all their mates that we'd prosper eternally and boast the world's finest NHS feel now? Or, in a slightly less dramatic example, how did fans who wanted Bloomfield out and McLintock in feel come April 1978? If you truly believe in something, it hurts to see your truth dismantled before your eyes. It was hard, for instance, for me to say I was wrong for my many critical posts about Pearson and Vardy, having spoken with such certainty about how crap they both were back in 2012 and 2013. I held my hands up as best I could, but others lash out or cling on to some faint semblance of increasingly tenuous hope. And so here we are. You can't sensibly defend Top. Your only argument is that things were once wonderful with his old man in charge, and that the son has the best of intentions. But that isn't really an argument, and evidently it hurts a lot to see the staggering margin by which the KP critics have been proven right, and their deeply-held faith in the owners wrong. At some point there will have to be a degree of acceptance on that score. And I hope those who consider themselves to have been proven right don't revel too much in the moment either, because it's a fairly hollow victory. All that said, though, you can have your opinion, as silly as it may seem to me, and I mine. That shouldn't mean we have to go out of our way to wind each other up. If I ever meet you, I'm not going to hit you or call you a ****. More likely I'll spend half an hour talking about how underrated Muzzy Izzet was. And hopefully at some point we can all get back to that stage. And while we're at it, Manwell Pablo, I'm sure you remember that very spiky debate a decade or two ago. In spite of your superior argument to the contrary, I still believe I'm right. Muzzy Izzet was clearly England standard. We might actually have to fight it out on that one...

Fair enough. Not worth much though, is it?

I try again and again to show sympathy for the Pro-Top/'KPFC' brigade, to argue that we can and should all unite once again without recriminations for those who were daft enough to defend the Top/Rudkin double-act, but these sorts of gestures make it harder. How on earth can anyone who even loosely likes Leicester City be applauding Winks? Maybe we were too harsh on Dennis Wise too. I can't get the idea out of my head that, if you planted a few hundred Cov or Forest fans in there, they'd be applauding Harry Winks too, just to piss us off. Which begs a few obvious questions of those among our own ranks. And at least one of the answers to those questions might be that the most divisive people in the stands right now aren't those who want KP out.

I'm still trying to figure out what the point is that you've been making. Are you trying to say that we're alright?

Too soon! Too soon!