LCFCJohn

Exactly. But to those like Aiyawatt and Rudkin who don’t really understand football, presumably what Maresca’s team did with the ball and what Martin’s team do look the same?

I suspect we’d have got slapped by Real Madrid in the semi finals No shame in that of course.

This too! Joking tones aside, even if we don’t have the facts about certain things, such as Bristvic, it is quite clear from the lack of any sensible scenarios that whatever is going on, the club is ultimately at fault yet still some defend them….

It means signing a player who had been known for falling out with managers and then being surprised he falls out with the manager, before paying him to sit around and not contribute whilst we have BDR as the back up striker

Just noticed that only 9 teams have conceded more than us and only 8 have scored less. 13th actually seems artificially higher than our performances…..

Again, it comes back to the club. If it is because he’s kicked or had a bad attitude, it sounds like there was previous for this so where was the due diligence? If he’s not done anything wrong and been dropped for no reason, why are we employing a manager who doesn’t think it’s useful to have the only other striker in the senior squad in the match day squad? I can’t genuinely think of a scenario that you could say doesn’t reflect badly on the club, recruitment or manager (or combination of). If anyone has one, please share!

It comes back to the ownership though. Think how divided this fanbase has been for the last few years and what is the one thing that united nearly everyone? Being vocal about not appointing Russell Martin. Come to this summer, relations with fans at a low, back to back relegations, 3 in 4 season. There’s 2 routes you can take. 1. Double down on everything that has proven to fail and has caused this, with the cherry on top of appointing the one guy who was pretty unanimously not wanted by the fanbase. 2. Actually review what has gone wrong, listen to fans dissatisfaction and maybe, just maybe try and change the approach. Even with all that, it’s not like fans spent all summer digging out Martin and being negative. There was the expected reaction to the appointment but then it calmed down and things were fairly positive and most people seemed willing to see how it would go. I do think we need to give the fans a break. What we have been served up for the last number of years, the decline and the way it has happened. Would other clubs fans have reacted better? We know the answer to that.

Yeah see above, I was more referring to the ownership and even managers but wasn’t clear. Edit - even when we were going well a few years back, there were players such as Perez and Chilwell who were scapegoats so I agree with the point about players. I was saying originally that collectively, I feel this squad this season is backed by the fanbase but there are remaining individuals such as Faes, Thomas, BDR who are just past fixing that relationship.

Players ok. I should say by the way, I was too young to follow it then so my comment is based on what I have heard of the time. But I understand that the players in that era would still have been pretty well liked yes. But it seems there were much bigger protests against the ownership then for much less? These lot have got away with murder.

If someone outright comes out and says they are happy with surviving relegation so they are happy to tick along a point a game roughly to get to 50, at least they are being consistent. Unambitious but consistent. But I doubt many are. You can’t have expectations of top 6 and accept the results we are seeing because they are not compatible.

90’s were surely more toxic with owner protests and against O’Neil no? The fanbase is pretty tame and flaccid in comparison now.

I don’t even agree that individuals should be booed by the way but I was just highlighting that it’s a case of separating the relationship with a couple of remaining players who have been a big part of our fall down the leagues and the squad collectively who it seems are quite popular, particularly the academy lads but the likes of Lundstram and Riis who when their transfer threads popped up, people were hardly over the moon but it does show that the fan base will give players a chance. I think it’s a case of sometimes fans (not saying you with this thread by the way), suggest some of these things are unique to us but they aren’t. Even other clubs have a toxic relationship with their owner like Blackburn (though I think Aiyawatt is much worse). I’m sure other fanbases have individual payers who aren’t popular. The manager one is a bit more unique as for a divided fanbase, we were very much collectively against this appointment. But it’s things like a round of boos at the end of a game when the whistle goes and we’ve been slapped 4-0 by Oxford or thrown away 2 points against a poor Barnsley side who had 10 men for 65 minutes. Some people suggest that boos at full time is a toxic fanbase but this happens round the grind every week was my point.

There is with this one mate. I’d say you’re right when it comes to the others. Yes most of us would rather McFarlane than Thomas but it’s a managers choice and you aren’t having 2 left backs in a squad with 7 subs. Same with Kangasniemi, we’d rather he play and be the future than Faes. Even Doyle, it seems odd to have 3 wingers on the bench and no room for Doyle. It you’d presume it’s to do with others being versatile, even though I’d have Doyle in the squad rather than needing Cullen starting and both Burns and BDR on the bench. But as Ric says, to not have your only other recognised striker on the bench? As yourself, how many of the other 23 sides and managers would do this? It’s either Martin being clueless or it’s a falling out, what else are we meant to believe?

Manager is understandable, fans were clear about not wanting him and they have done it anyway with the inevitable result. Ownership the relationship is still too nice. Do what they have done with most other sets of supporters, they’d have had it far less easy. The players generally the fans are getting behind with the odd exception of those who should have moved on already. Players should be used to the fact that fans will react to what they see on the pitch but the fact that the vast majority of the players are being backed and supported as we go into each game shows that the fans are keen for a positive relationship there. Moans and groans as another mistake due to the style being forced on them by the manager or some boos at the end of a game does not constitute a poor relationship between the fans and players as these are the types of reactions you see around grounds across the country every week so we are no different in that regard.

Just thinking about the list of players (specifically the new signings) he seems to have binned off already Bristvic - only 2 strikers in the squad and showed some bright moments Doyle - highly rated at this level for creative attributes McFarlane - competition is Luke Thomas ffs Kangasniemi - because we are much better off long term playing guys like Souttar and Faes who don’t want to be here and probably won’t after this season (well Faes is out of contract and you’d imagine Souttar moves) Add Chaplin being a crock, Burns who was signed to keep Chaplin happy being crap, Watson looking like a competition winner, a selection of uninspiring goalkeepers, what do we have to show for the summer window? Lundstram looks decent Riis showed he can score last week O’Hora may be good but held back by Martin ball Cullen at least has scored a couple Howell looks alright Unsurprisingly, the bright sparks have been our academy players who Martin has had nothing to do with developing.

Yeah fair. Remember when Chilwell looked like little boy lost in the men’s game, frightened to take a throw in at Millwall etc and went away and worked over the summer on his strength and came back looking a much different player, the one that eventually went to Chelsea and made us £45/£50 million. Could Thomas have applied himself in that way and made something of himself? Maybe yeah. But I still think his development when we first came through was poor from the club and unfortunate timing for him when Rodgers was blowing up. There are examples of players who had much higher ceilings and expectations at a young age than Thomas who disappeared into non-league or out of the sport completely. Sometimes it is mentality and attitude and sometimes unfortunate timing and circumstances. I’d say both apply to Thomas, more the former but not helped by the latter. He’s done now anyway. I can’t imagine he’ll leave before 2029 unless we part ways like with Vestergaard (or the club goes into administration or liquidation before then). But I genuinely am starting to think he will just retire.

This is a really good point. I wasn’t the biggest fan of Enzo ball at the time, purely not my idea of entertainment for much of the time. Obviously take those day back in a heartbeat now! But it was always said that the idea of having possession meant that it tired the opposition chasing shadows until we could wear them down and punish them. As an aside, another theory behind having high possession is that the opponent can’t score when you have the ball. Why or why then, do we have a manager whose idea of possession football means we are the ones exhausted due to the way of playing and give up so many chances that even if we have 80% of ball, we still ship a couple of a goals a match! Make it make sense!

Just for context, after 7 games, our form over the season would be, 13 wins, 20 draws and 13 defeats. 59 points. That would have us lower midtable, clear enough of relegation as long as nothing like administration and points deductions happen. I guess many of our fans would be happy with that?

The problem is, even if Thomas has a decent game, it doesn’t really matter as we have seen it won’t turn around long term and he is a broken player. He’s been involved in the 3 relegations wasn’t even around for the 1 good season in the last 4 as he was busy being part of a truly dreadful Sheffield United side then followed that up being crap at Middlesbrough. He’s broken. Physically and mentally. I don’t hate him, I just feel sorry for him. He’s the playing equivalent of Russell Martin, just not cut out for it and not a winner. If we aren’t daft enough to give him another contract, I could genuinely see him retiring early when he leaves here. And I was one who defended him for some time after he was written off by many, and still defend that I thought his development in the early years was shocking to be fair.

I mean if your ambition is just to survive relegation, call it a point on the board towards the 50 needed and be happy about it. If you’re ambition for the season is anything more than surviving, drawing with an average Barnsley who had 10 men for 65 minutes is a bad result however it is dressed up.

I said I don’t agree with booing him. But I just said I don’t think it’s entitled. It’s a broken relationship. You don’t think the club should have moved him on before now?

I’m not saying I agree with it but it’s not entitled. It’s a broken relationship between fans and player, that’s all. It’s on the club for not moving him on and probably making Martin select him.

Where is JJ? Injured with Woyo on the bench? Shame about Faes getting back in. Just can’t have any interest in watching with him in. Poor attitude and a bombscare at any level. Can’t see us keeping Barnsley out with Faes and Thomas in there.

Thrilling….the one we were all waiting for yeah

Carney might actually end Trump given what this will be doing to the latters health