LCFCJohn

Imagine if you cared about it. I guess then we really would see what insufferable is…. And plenty of chance for you to be drawn away to Wrexham in either cup next year by the way

In this case it is probably partly at least down to the fact he is English and doesn’t have a fancy name. People would probably be more receptive if he had an exotic name.

He probably takes the eye more as a former players but 2 titles with Swindon and Leyton Orient and FA Trophy with Salford is hardly to be sniffed at. Still young as a manager too. And he has pushed on with Orient too beyond just survival in League 1. Oldham was his first job and where are they now? Clearly a club in decline for many years. Doncaster no idea, it doesn’t work for a manager at every club. Again hardly like they improved that season and stayed up. Looks like they were also on the decline. Id say there’s more positive about his record than negative. Very good FA cup this season too. I suspect he’ll get a go soon at a higher level. Whether that will be with us I don’t know. I’d happily give him a chance to build something if he can be committed to promoting youth.

Sorry but this just isn’t true. Spurs and Man U have declined beyond recognition from what they were in 2016 (not saying they were great then). Man City are way off what they were then. Arsenal possibly par, a strong second. Chelsea were shocking and finished 10th so they are better. Liverpool obviously the outstanding side. Even if Forest won every game remaining they would only match our total so I don’t think you can claim they would be near the title as overall, the former so called big 6 have declined a lot further than they were in 2016.

He was also playing on defence at the start. He is now in his strongest position and doing well. We will see if that continues until the end of the season if it he trails off. Anyway, I am merely adding balance as he is a player some just want to take aim at at any opportunity. I questioned that a player having a particular skill set does not mean they can’t be a very good player at that level. If you use them to that skill set, they are a vital part of the machine. I also said if we can make a profit and remove his wages, then yeah let’s not turn that down. But, we have so many players who have such an awful mentality, put zero effort in and won’t offer us anything next season. We need players willing to put a shift in and get stuck in, making us hard to beat. Choudhury for me, is not at the top of our problems list and we won’t move everyone on and have a completely new squad overnight despite many thinking this is remotely realistic so it’s a case of who would we be content if they were still here. There’s a number of them I just would lose interest come the opening day of the season if they are still around and in the starting line up.

Eh? He’s very good at what he does and is turning in some excellent performances for the top of the league side. It’s like saying Michael Cooper for Sheffield United is not a very good Championship player because he only saves shots and keeps clean sheets but can’t score goals, can’t beat a man to put a cross in or run a midfield Or a less silly example, that Billy Sharp wasn’t a very good Championship player because he only scored goals!

Whilst Leeds chucking it away is funny, we could really do with the out the way next season given they have tended to have our number recently!

Yeah definitely at the top level and trickled down into the Championship too. No doubt once you get into League 1 and 2 they are genuine on the whole. But more fool the clubs who will then given them their best contract. If they actually had to fear if and where the next contract was coming from maybe they’d make some effort.

All this above being the case but don’t they wonder what happens with their careers if the charity that is LCFC (sorry KPFC) turn off the taps? Not only with none of these get a deal like they have here but will surely in some cases (such as Danny Ward) struggle to get anything at a decent level. They are damaging their careers and reputations.

Agreed. As I say, all our squad could have the accusation of being paid above their ability levelled at them. I also don’t like the off the field issues with the drink driving. Absolutely unacceptable. However, there are many that through their attitude on the pitch, lack of effort etc will just not offer anything next year. I’m talking Coady, Vestergaard and Faes. Probably looking at Soumare in the midfield positions. Ndidi as he will inevitably be out injured for more of the season than he is fit. Choudhury, whilst yes, if there’s a good deal to be had, do it, I think he’d actually contribute well if played in his correct position to his strengths. Many of our fans are snobs now and just want fancy players with nice bags and fancy hair cuts etc. However, they also complain that our midfield is like a sieve and our defence is hung out to dry (whilst they don’t help themselves). At Championship level, Choudhury as a defensive midfielder, makes us a lot harder to beat and will win the ball back before our defence comes under pressure as much.

Also worth remember that whilst it is an achievement, finishing top 4 is not what is was a few years ago. It comes on the back of Newcastle and Villa doing the same. It is a fact that there has not been the same top 6 performing clubs as there was previously for the past few years which has opened the door. Man City, Arsenal (minus the post Wenger dip) and Liverpool have been fairly strong (Man City coincidentally having their worst year in 15 odd years this year) but Man U (bar the Mourinho year where they finished 2nd) have declined further, Spurs are declining year on year and Chelsea are up and down and massively under performing in the last few years relative to how much they have spent. Yes it takes some good recruitment and things coming today and it’s great for their fans as it was Villa and Newcastle but let’s not pretend that: 1 - Forest and Villa and Newcastle before haven’t spent obscene money, dwarfing not only us in 2016 but also our seasons under Rodgers. 2 - That none of these 3 clubs would have been close to top 4 a few years ago before the rich 6 clubs stopped being the ‘top 6’. As I say, great for their fans and fair play. You still need to get it right over the rest of the clubs pushing but it’s no fairy tale. It also shows what I thought all along which is that much of our fan base was hailing the 5th place finishes but it was actually a huge underperformance both times around for us.

I should add to my above post, I am in favour with moving as many on and if there is an offer for Choudhury they gets his wages off the books and pure profit, of course take it. I do just think purely as his merits as a player, if played to his strengths, he’s very good at what he does at that level and showing it now so if he is still around, play him as he offers more than anyone else we have in that area.

When we were relegated before, I got pelters from some for suggesting Hamza had a place in the squad but he is showing what a good players he is at that level if used correctly. We have lacked bite in the middle for a while, Ndidi is never fit. I’d have him in the team next year, there I have said it! I don’t agree with some of his off the fields decisions and clearly he is another one that has been put on a wage that is inflated for where it should be but that is the case for everybody in the squad.

To be fair the same could be said of us in 2015/16 but we still did the job. If there is a way in which Forest have been lucky, I would say it was them managing to stay up and avoid any serious consequences from breathing PSR by the bottom 3 being so terrible last season. Similar to how Wolves are lucky they have stayed up this season due to the bottom 3 being even worse than last year.

Worded like this makes more sense and I get what you are saying. I think though, that is more due to us being the ultimate bipolar club. If we had won the league and been sitting in 10th/12th, winning some and losing some, I doubt anyone would have been bothered. We certainly didn’t expect to be at the top again and had the CL campaign. We lost something like 6 on the trot without scoring didn’t we after the new year? And we in the bottom 3. That’s going to be grim for any fan based no matter what they have recently done. Similarly we were awful following the FA Cup win. I reckon had we been even just steady following those achievements, it would have been different.

Actually, a far too higher proportion of our fanbase are of just this mindset! It’s seems to be just a minority of our fanbase who think the decline is unacceptable sadly.

Which year was this? 🤔

I feel like we need to bring him back as manager so just he can shoulder the blame to be fair

Few thoughts on the last couple of pages… This plane being disrespectful stuff I strongly disagree with. As said, it’s a different method of aircraft but more so, Top uses a plane regularly. The rubbish about we only got to the PL because of them. See @Freeman's Wharfer and @Hirsty The Blue 94’s posts just above. They speak sense, the argument we’d have never got promoted without them is nonsense and completely disrespects Nigel and the work he had already done towards getting us there. As Hirsty says, we actually took 2 steps back and took longer to get there due to KP decisions on management. People hiding behind direct messages to send @ozvaldo abusive messages. Grow up. You deserve outing whoever you are. At least he is trying to do something. That said, most of the debate on this thread apart from those making stupid comments like the point about KP being responsible for getting us into the PL, have been healthy and supportive of the plan and debate around the message itself shouldn’t get mixed up with not wanting the action to happen or backing the KPFC happy clappers. I do personally agree that the KP out message could risk missing the mark and liked the rotten from top to bottom idea.

I can only imagine the keyboard warriors sending abusive direct messages are those types on the Facebook pages or a couple of posters on this forum who have been vocal against any action. For what it’s worth, I think they deserve naming and shaming but probably legalities around that… I actually think this thread itself has been a health discussion. I haven’t seen anyone saying they are against the plane banner idea. There’s been a couple of borderline comments between a couple of individuals but not at Osvaldo. I think people are just really keen for this to make the right impact. It’s an incredible effort from @ozvaldoto have raised that much in what, little over 24 hours? We all just want it to be a success and the discussion about the right message should be a health one.

It clearly (to me) isn’t that they care about that. What they are saying is that if the wider footballing community think it’s just an entitled minority, it will be easy for the club to brush under the carpet. The project reset stuff, the element of success it did have, was that the media talked about it and not in a negative, dismissive way.

Facebook absolutely. I don’t agree about the comments on here though. Nobody is defending Top. We all know he is ultimately accountable. All people are saying is to consider wording that is likely to make the message clear whilst being done is a smarter way, that won’t result in the message being shouted down by the cult who only get off they arses to defend Top! What do angry football fans do when not happy? Shout for someone’s job or for them to be ‘out’. Mostly managers, sometimes players. The risk is that this is shouted down by the cult and is put down to an angry minority. Personally, I just want my club back. If Top completely overhauled everything, made things good on and off the pitch and publicly held himself accountable and showed some humility, I’d not rush back to giving the club my money but I’d see how things went. Obviously it’s unlikely as he’s a spoiled man child.

Exactly! I mean yes, it’s not Rudkin’s fault if some players aren’t performing of in the case of someone like Daka, never hit the expectations had of him. It is his fault that they subsequently can’t be shifted on due to said bloody stupid contracts.

I find the Facebook comments fascinating. Someone and I quote ‘it’s not Rudkin’s fault, yes he gave out the contracts but it’s the players not performing’

There’s someone on there, two separate posts, same person, who claims we’d have never got promoted without KP and also that our natural place is lower second tier and being a yo-yo club is a good thing. What planet are they on! So wrong on so many counts. Completely disrespectful to Pearson, Shakespeare and Walsh as well.