LCFCJohn

I think Daka is a good call in the circumstances. Shame Ricky isn’t in but we all know why and managing his minutes. Reid is never going to be an exciting selection but let’s see.

I am playing devils advocate here. I have been on record saying I don’t think we should necessarily start Page or Monga. I think Monga is best served coming off the bench currently, although Page should be able to have a place on the bench. That is disappointing. The only one I feel strongly about is Nelson for reasons discussed to death. But it is tiresome hearing constantly how we need experience blah blah blah, can’t play the youngsters etc. Nobody is saying Page was the reason we won those games nor that his subsequent being out the squad is the reason for having not won in 3. Even if that is circumstantial, there’s enough evidence to draw there that having 16 and 17 year olds in the side wasn’t hindering us. We looked bright and positive. To reiterate, I am not a ‘play the kids’ nut. I think there is a balance to be had. And looking objectively, I think that balance is slightly off in favour of the experience. Not hugely but just a Page missing off the bench and Nelson out in the cold.

Care to explain how there is something wrong with the fact we won 2 games in a row Page started and have drawn 3 out of 3 since he has not been? Specially what is factually incorrect about it?

I don’t think Ric was saying that was the reason, just observing it was a fact that we won back to back games he was involved in and haven’t since. It would at least suggest it did us no harm having him involved. I also think Ric is bang on in saying if it’s had been the other way, and we had won a couple and then stopped, people would be quick to blame it on a young player like Page being involved.

I mean it’s a fact is is not!

Okoli will be back in before you’d think. And when is Souttar due back?

As I say, I am not criticising or judging him. Players are entitled to see out the contract signed. And yes, a lot of clubs will try and wait for a player to become a free agent. Myself personally, I have left a job, in which I was unhappy, to take a new role that i would be happier in, even though it was a drop in salary as I prioritised my happiness. But I do believe most people, not just footballers, but people in regular paying jobs, will prioritise money over this. And I do think this gives less right to complain about being unhappy as it is still a choice, even though one you are entitled to. Ultimately, the toxic culture comes from the owner of this club. Fans are right to be unhappy. We have too many players, Faes included but not only him by a long way, who for a long time have seemed very uncommitted. This has caused frustration from fans to boil over.

Possibly could also have been sold if he was willing to lower his wage demands. Of course once they sign the contract, all players are entitled to hold the club to that. However, if a player is that unhappy and wants to move, it is about more than the fee that a buying club will offer. He could have helped this by taking a lower wage to play somewhere he can be happier. But I suspect he isn’t unhappy enough to not want the large wage we pay him.

I don’t think anyone is asking for a team of kids, or for changes that hinder our chances. For me, I believe Page should be still in the squad, on the bench. There is room for a couple of kids on there when you can name 9. The biggest controversy is Nelson. Given the errors we get from Faes particularly and Vestergaard who is just a poor defender in general, there is zero evidence to suggest that if Nelson had been given a run from the start, he would perform worse. It’s not like the senior players are covering themselves in glory. I think the Nelson situation is not a usual one in times of chucking kids in given his experience at this level.

Better to rebuild from the PL. Going up wasn’t the problem, buying the likes of Ayew, Skipp and Reid was the problem. And Cooper and RVN as managers. We will come back down regardless as there is too much work to do to make a credible PL team. But if we could do it whilst making forward thinking signings and not in an embarrassing fashion, that would be ok. Anything but promotion is now a failure given the lack of forward planning with team selections.

Thing is, Nelson hasn’t got years left on his contract so we can’t really play the long game can we. We might well be forced to sell him in January or the summer to just get anything and avoid losing for free. There seems to just be an assumption that he will just sign a new contract despite not playing. Why would he?

I just saw the edited version and wondered why I had basically just parroted you haha! I agree with you. It’s hardly like we are setting the league alight with our performances and results at the moment. It’d be more forgivable if we were. I think the club could definitely afford to take the chance. There’s less and less evidence to suggest we would do any worse if we were. As a fanbase, no. Too many are unsupportive of aCade my players and collectively, we seem to take so little pride compared to other clubs around our home grown players.

It’s bizarre. Barnes and Chilwell were heavily slated for much of their time here as well and yet they brought us nearly £100mill in pure profit (yes we pissed it up the wall but that wasn’t their fault). KDH as well. Even at the point he was carrying us two years ago, and when these people couldn’t find fault to pick with his performances, it turned to ‘not a true one of our own as he was born in Nottingham’ and ‘he’s a Man Utd fan’ etc. As they’d say in a court of law, relevance? Then there’s the Nelson banished after 45 minutes against Huddersfield being supported and now Stolarcryk being singled out for that goal on Friday. Makes me think we should purely just use the academy for sales and profit through loaning out and cashing in rather than them playing for us.

I don’t think the errors are about physical ability. I think it comes down to anticipation. The West Brom goal, I disagree it was an error on Jakub’s part as that implies he caused it or contributed to. Saying he could have done more is probably fair. I think he was caught out by what happens ahead of him as you wouldn’t be expecting that. Same with the free kick, it’s like he is surprised it has come through the wall (and rightly so). Same at Oxford, the defending for their first prior to the shot initially coming in was atrocious. Preston was genuinely a massive error and bad judgement. Essentially, he needs to be better at anticipating that the defence, given it includes Vestergaard and Faes, are a liability and it is likely to fall to him to bail us out.

Most of the team picks itself. The no10 and striker are the tricky ones. Stolarcryk Ricardo Faes Vestergaard Thomas Winks James Fatawu Page Mavididi Daka Subs - Begovic, Okoli, Choudhury, Skipp, Soumare, BDR, Monga, Ayew, Carranza Clearly not going to happen as Ayew isn’t there and we will not see Page again now he signed his contract. But Wrexham under Parkinson just seem to be quite a slow side (unless that has changed this season as I haven’t really seen much of them). I just think we stand the best chance of beating them by being quicker about things. Ayew just slows it all down.

Not a big mistake that led to the goal though! That was all the crap they happened in front of him.

Lots of bickering over why he isn’t playing. Does it really matter? The fact is, he was closer to first team involvement under Maresca 2 years ago, when he was 19. He’s now 21 and gained experience at this level and is further away than he was then. Whether if is a failing on the players part or the club/manager, it is a failing and a sign his development has stalled/started going backwards.

I don’t disagree with this post and it is fair. As I say, all I have commented on is that I do not think it is fair to assume he was not fancied for reasons such as you suggest in previous seasons. He was clearly a kid who was genuinely not ready for the level we were at. Whereas now, he is clearly able to perform at this level and yes, other factors are now at play. Ultimately, what matters is that he is now further away from the first team than he was 2 years ago under Maresca, despite getting more experience and being 2 years older. This is damning for him and his development is now going backwards. Club and player need to part ways for the benefit of both.

You’re not reading! Mate, I think you’re good poster and agree with most of what you say. I really felt for you on the whole Agyemang thing I know from your contribution on this forum in general that you’re an intelligent person. So I know you know full well what myself and others are saying and that you know I’m saying that the wording ‘not fancied’ has negative connotations, and that a young player not being for first team football at the level we are playing is a completely different thing. I guess Motsi is also not fancied? Or is it that he’s a 14 year old kid who will have no business playing at this level yet? Nelson being loaned last season was not negative. Nobody was saying he was ready for PL football. The season before nobody was commenting on him as the minutes he has were fine. Now is different. He has come off a strong season at this level and the fact he has been completely removed from first team contention is a huge negative and one that in my view, is going to stop him having a future here.

I am absolutely up to date having read the conversation. You have made it sound a negative towards Nelson that Cooper didn’t fancy him. When that was not the case as he was loaned out for his development and it was not a negative. And even under Maresca isn’t not a negative as he was younger then. He is now on the back of a strong season either side of injury at this exact level so now it is a negative situation but it wasn’t before.

Which is exactly what you are arguing against now It’s absolutely clear what @moore_94is saying. Saying not fancied by the managers has negative connotations, I.e not good enough. Being loaned out to get a full season in the Championship as he wasn’t Premier League ready is not a negative slight on a young player. Being left out now is. The only bit I agree with is about Maresca but he didn’t like playing youth players so it’s not surprising he didn’t play him.

When do you see a centre back integrated like that though? It’s a damn difficult position to break into. Normally it’s due to injury or suspension. So sudden introduction which is what I think won’t work. Okoli and Souttar when back are the better options for that. Those of us who rate Nelson must just be wrong. As you say, the manager sees him in training all the times so he can’t be good enough. We should just cut our losses (well not even losses as he’s pure profit). I’m sure someone would pay £3/4mill for him.

Essentially, what I am saying is that a combination of lack of match practice after injury and the additional standards he is held to, is a recipe for disaster and I can’t imagine it will go well. I don’t want that for him so it’s now at the point I hope he is kept away from it. His involvement or lack of it has just become too much of a big deal now, too much pressure around it.

Centre back is different. You develop a partnership and there is less changing than attacking positions. And what is nonsense. The fact he is out of match practice following injury or the fact he is under huge scrutiny from the fans?

He can’t be brought in now. He has not played any minutes for over a month. He is out of practice and would be completely coming from the cold. After his injury, bringing him back out the cold will probably just result in him getting crocked again. And then he will be under so much pressure knowing that a huge proportion of the fans will be just waiting for him to make a mistake to call for him to be dropped again. Either way, it won’t end well. We have committed down the Vestergaard/Faes route now so we just have to stick with it and hope it doesn’t get too bad.