The 2015 Sunday Times Rich List

[1993fox]

A key note to remember here is that tax evasion and tax avoidance a different. One is unethical and immoral, the other is illegal. 

 

Yes in many ways I've realized what I'm doing in HK isn't really illegal, besides UK gets plenty of P's anyway. 

[MooseBreath]

I disagree. I think hitting a level of sufficiency that is enough for you to not be too unconsensually reliant on others and then being content with your lot is just as laudable as high drive and ambition. Both seem to bring happiness to the individuals involved, and perhaps that restraint can lead to greater sustainability in the future.

Yeah all those people who work in McDonald's and in call centres or factories on minimum wage because they've never been bothered about getting a few qualifications are surely always very happy, and certainly get a great deal of satisfaction out of their contribution to "greater sustainability"

Next you'll be telling me we should worship homeless people as God's for doing their bit to help alleviate demand for housing.

Personally I'd put people who spend their lives devoted to creating and delivering complex products and services valued by many, and providing other people with satisfying careers in turn as way ahead of someone who just can't be bothered to do anything. But that's just me. I like people who devote their time to creating things that other people want and have no issue with them being rewarded for their efforts via a free market.

[leicsmac]

Yeah all those people who work in McDonald's and in call centres or factories on minimum wage because they've never been bothered about getting a few qualifications are surely always very happy, and certainly get a great deal of satisfaction out of their contribution to "greater sustainability"

Next you'll be telling me we should worship homeless people as God's for doing their bit to help alleviate demand for housing.

Personally I'd put people who spend their lives devoted to creating and delivering complex products and services valued by many, and providing other people with satisfying careers in turn as way ahead of someone who just can't be bothered to do anything. But that's just me. I like people who devote their time to creating things that other people want and have no issue with them being rewarded for their efforts via a free market.

Perhaps happiness is the wrong word then..try contentment instead. If they weren't content, they would seek different qualifications and jobs.

You value ambition, I get it. So do I. But I also value those who choose to not be ambitious and stay as they are, as long as they don't impinge others. Both choices have equal merit, and both types of people are necessary to keep civilisation running.

But that's just me...So I guess once again we agree to disagree.

[Rincewind]

I have just started to read a book I got from a charity shop. Meltdown by Ben Elton. It is about a guy who made a fortune playing the stockmarket and investing in projects. Then he loses everything when the stockmarket crashes. At the beginning of the book it switches from where he is bankrupt and just before the crash. He receives a call from a friend who is an advisor in the Brown Government who tells him that a building Society he has shares in is about to fold so he sells the shares he has making 100k.

This obviously went wrong but I don't know why yet.

The theme of the book involve him and a circle of friends who have been together since Uni and will they stick together during bad times as well as good. Could be interesting to see how it goes.

 

If I have gone too far off topic move this to the book reading threadf but I thought it was sort of related to this thread and how things can change very quick.

[ADK]

To be envious or jealous implies somebody wants something another has. The actual jealous people are surely the ones who zealously defend the wealthy as they desire the same wealth. Not those who dislike excessive concentrated wealth as they do not desire it. Perhaps they would prefer a more equal distribution of wealth. Surely if you are going to accuse them of anything it would be spitefulness or lack of ambition.

 

"I vote Tory because I am ambitious and hard working and the Tory party will reward my ambition. I look up to those who have more wealth than me, for they have worked hard for their money. I look down upon those who have less wealth than me, for they are lazy and lack ambition. I robustly challenge anyone who does not subscribe to my narrow view. My view must hold true in order for me to feel in control of my life. If the wealthy did not always deserve their money and the poor did not always deserve to be poor then I may not be in control of my life and that is scary."

[Webbo]

To be envious or jealous implies somebody wants something another has. The actual jealous people are surely the ones who zealously defend the wealthy as they desire the same wealth. Not those who dislike excessive concentrated wealth as they do not desire it. Perhaps they would prefer a more equal distribution of wealth. Surely if you are going to accuse them of anything it would be spitefulness or lack of ambition.

 

"I vote Tory because I am ambitious and hard working and the Tory party will reward my ambition. I look up to those who have more wealth than me, for they have worked hard for their money. I look down upon those who have less wealth than me, for they are lazy and lack ambition. I robustly challenge anyone who does not subscribe to my narrow view. My view must hold true in order for me to feel in control of my life. If the wealthy did not always deserve their money and the poor did not always deserve to be poor then I may not be in control of my life and that is scary."

It's not jealousy it's envy. He's got more money than me so he doesn't deserve it and should have it took off him. It's pathetic, as long as you've got enough to live on what does it matter if someone else has more?

[Rincewind]

To be envious or jealous implies somebody wants something another has. The actual jealous people are surely the ones who zealously defend the wealthy as they desire the same wealth. Not those who dislike excessive concentrated wealth as they do not desire it. Perhaps they would prefer a more equal distribution of wealth. Surely if you are going to accuse them of anything it would be spitefulness or lack of ambition.

 

"I vote Tory because I am ambitious and hard working and the Tory party will reward my ambition. I look up to those who have more wealth than me, for they have worked hard for their money. I look down upon those who have less wealth than me, for they are lazy and lack ambition. I robustly challenge anyone who does not subscribe to my narrow view. My view must hold true in order for me to feel in control of my life. If the wealthy did not always deserve their money and the poor did not always deserve to be poor then I may not be in control of my life and that is scary."

I know my place.

 

I agree with most that post. I would not be me if I had the same wealth. I like being me and having the values that I have. I like being down to earth and being with down to earth people. I like going going Tesco and Aldi rather than harrods and Foreman and Mason. I like looking for bargins in charity shops not antique shops. I prefer using a remote control to switch TV channels rather than having a butler do it. And I prefer watching Leicester than Chelsea.

[ADK]

It's not jealousy it's envy. He's got more money than me so he doesn't deserve it and should have it took off him. It's pathetic, as long as you've got enough to live on what does it matter if someone else has more?

 

Surely if that's what they believe then that is a fair viewpoint? Why should somebody have more money if they don't deserve it?

[Webbo]

Surely if that's what they believe then that is a fair viewpoint? Why should somebody have more money if they don't deserve it?

Who says they don't deserve it, how is that determined? Is it fair to say that somebody deserves to be poor?

[Rincewind]

Some seem to think so when its taken off them.

[MooseBreath]

To be envious or jealous implies somebody wants something another has. The actual jealous people are surely the ones who zealously defend the wealthy as they desire the same wealth. Not those who dislike excessive concentrated wealth as they do not desire it. Perhaps they would prefer a more equal distribution of wealth. Surely if you are going to accuse them of anything it would be spitefulness or lack of ambition.

If people spoke of wealth redistrutibution in global terms then I'd have more sympathy with this view. It would be an absurd suggestion, of course, but the principle would be far more credible than those who come from rich countries, whose very presence in a rich country such as ours puts them towards the top of the global wealth list, talking about wanting an even greater share while doing absolutely nothing to earn it.

If anybody in this country genuinely feels strongly about altruistic wealth redistrutibution, there's several billion people out there who could benefit from the arrangement. Unsurprisingly I don't see many people queuing up at Western Union to give their money away.

[Rincewind]

Programme on now about wheeler dealers. Woman just said 'people like to buy  trash, the more shitty it looks the more people pay for it.;

[ADK]

If people spoke of wealth redistrutibution in global terms then I'd have more sympathy with this view. It would be an absurd suggestion, of course, but the principle would be far more credible than those who come from rich countries, whose very presence in a rich country such as ours puts them towards the top of the global wealth list, talking about wanting an even greater share while doing absolutely nothing to earn it.

If anybody in this country genuinely feels strongly about altruistic wealth redistrutibution, there's several billion people out there who could benefit from the arrangement. Unsurprisingly I don't see many people queuing up at Western Union to give their money away.

 

Many people want more even global wealth distribution Moose. It's a bit more complicated than sending everyone a £1 coin though.

[MooseBreath]

Many people want more even global wealth distribution Moose. It's a bit more complicated than sending everyone a £1 coin though.

Is it? How's that then? If you want global wealth redistribution then get on it. Absolutely nothing stopping you using the wealth you've been gifted by virtue of being born into one of the richest countries in the world to do your part to redistribute wealth. You are the 1%. Time to practice what you preach.

[Buce]

I genuinely don't get people's obsession with money for money's sake. The main reason I work for myself is so that I can strike a precise balance between work and life. I could probably be moderately wealthy if I worked longer hours, but for me, time (and good health) is the most precious of commodities: time to spend with my famiily, time to walk in the countryside, time to read a book or listen to music, time to work on my novel; hell, time to talk bollox on foxestalk, if I choose. So I work hard enough to put food on the table, to keep a roof over our heads, put clothes on our backs, to take a couple of holidays a year. And I'm happy with my life - that's real wealth.

I don't envy those who spend their lives relentlessly pursuing money - I pity them.

[MooseBreath]

Great, if you're happy with your lot, no need for any socialism.

[Buce]

Great, if you're happy with your lot, no need for any socialism.

You might subscribe to the 'I'm alright Jack' philosophy - I don't.

[MooseBreath]

You might subscribe to the 'I'm alright Jack' philosophy - I don't.

Which of the several billion people worse off than you will be giving your money to today then? Or is only people even richer than you who should dip into their pockets?

[Buce]

Which of the several billion people worse off than you will be giving your money to today then?

The Indian child that I sponser.

[The Railway Man]

The Indian child that I sponser.

 

That's up there with 'My best friend is black'.

 

In reality your money is probably going to build nuclear weapons or paying for a gold toilet seat in Rajasthan.

[Buce]

That's up there with 'My best friend is black'.

In reality your money is probably going to build nuclear weapons or paying for a gold toilet seat in Rajasthan.

Not at all: I sponser a child through PLAN International, and the money goes directly to her wellbeing.

I'd link you to their website, but your aggressive and offensive reply shows me I'd be wasting my time.

[The Railway Man]

Sorry for offending you, I hope you're ok.

[Buce]

Sorry for offending you, I hope you're ok.

Wow, it takes some doing to be a bigger tw@t than moose, but you've cracked it.

Well done.

[MooseBreath]

The Indian child that I sponser.

That's great. I give to charity too. Personally though I don't give every spare penny I have to charity, nor do I forgo many luxuries so I can give more. Presumably you do, so that's wonderful. You are such a good person.

[The Railway Man]

Sorry for being massively aggressive and offensive Buce, again, I hope you're ok.