A Year Ago

[davieG]

on Saturday 25th September 2004 Leicester Played QPR @ Loftus Road.

This was the team for the day,

City: Pressman, Dabizas, Keown, Nalis, Dublin (Wright 76), Scowcroft, Makin, Gemmill (Gudjonsson 69), Connolly, Wilcox, Blake (Benjamin 63).

Subs not used: Heath, Williams.

One year on we will be playing QPR on Saturday 24th @ Home, now I don't know what team CL will be putting out or what tactics we will be employing but that is a change of massive proportions in football terms and anyone who thinks we have made NO progress is ignoring the facts

Fair enough the results have been disappointing and progress points wise is non-existant; I have my concerns about some aspects of CL's management, but in every club no matter how successlful or not they are there will always be people with opposing/differing views; it's part of what makes following professional football interesting

I believe the future is looking considerable brighter now than it looked then, others don't.

Here's hoping for plenty of goals, a clean sheet, exciting football and 3 points against QPR.,

[Fox 4 Life]

I went to that game, Connolly scored a beauty and then we ended up losing 3-2 after going 2-0 up! I agree progess has been made but all the time we play De Vries up front on his own we will not progress at all. Levein needs to get rid of his love affair with his hearts boys and play the best team

From seeing Kisnorbo he is no better than Joey and we should drop him and playy 4-4-2! We need to give Hume games otherwise his confidence will be very low!

[davieG]

I went to that game, Connolly scored a beauty and then we ended up losing 3-2 after going 2-0 up! I agree progess has been made but all the time we play De Vries up front on his own we will not progress at all. Levein needs to get rid of his love affair with his hearts boys and play the best team

From seeing Kisnorbo he is no better than Joey and we should drop him and playy 4-4-2! We need to give Hume games otherwise his confidence will be very low!

How many times have we played MDV upfront on his own. As for his Heart's Boys - Kisnorbo is not yet 100% match fit and does not yet know the team/individual dynamics, I seem to recall MDV has been left out a few times, a lot of people were calling for Hamill to be given a chance after his reserve performances, Rab seems to be performing ok, certainly better than Henderson it would seem; that leaves Maybury should we drop him. I suspect by Hearts Boys you really only mean MDV.

[Louise]

After the accusations from some about no progress being made... A year on and 9 games in I'm happy to point out some factual improvements from this point last season:

By this time last year we had received 3 red cards. Now we have had none.

By this time last year we had scored 8 league goals, now we have scored 10. But more important than that statistic for me is that we had only scored 3 home goals in five home games at this point last season, as opposed to this season's tally of 6 home goals in four home games.

The average age of Adams's squad at the start of 2004/2005:

Goalkeepers: 28/29

Defenders: 28/29

Midfielders: 29/30

Strikers: 27/28

Total Squad: 28/29

The average age of Levein's squad at the start of 2005/2006:

Goalkeepers: 27

Defenders: 21/22

Midfielders: 24/25

Strikers: 24/25

Total Squad: 23/24

(all players who were given squad numbers before the start of each season are included)

[cisono]

Thanks Louise, this is an impressive post containing important factual info.

[The People's Hero]

You can prove anything with statistics.

[Steven]

After the accusations from some about no progress being made... A year on and 9 games in I'm happy to point out some factual improvements from this point last season:

By this time last year we had received 3 red cards. Now we have had none.

By this time last year we had scored 8 league goals, now we have scored 10. But more important than that statistic for me is that we had only scored 3 home goals in five home games at this point last season, as opposed to this season's tally of 6 home goals in four home games.

The average age of Adams's squad at the start of 2004/2005:

Goalkeepers: 28/29

Defenders: 28/29

Midfielders: 29/30

Strikers: 27/28

Total Squad: 28/29

The average age of Levein's squad at the start of 2005/2006:

Goalkeepers: 27

Defenders: 21/22

Midfielders: 24/25

Strikers: 24/25

Total Squad: 23/24

(all players who were given squad numbers before the start of each season are included)

If no-one else has and you don't mind I will post this elsewhere.

[davieG]

You can prove anything with statistics.

Of course they can, up to a point but the only statistic that the anti CL brigade are using is the points total, which is fair enough but isolating that does not reflect improvements elsewhere.

If you can prove anything with statistics, instead of saying it with smug satisfaction let's see you come up with statistics that show there's has been NO improvement.

The only other area that has been sited by the anti brigade is the entertainment value, well goal wise Louise has put that one to bed, I don't believe our performances so far have sunk to the level of last years especially those against Brighton & Watford. I have also mentioned on a previous thread the Stoke home game which we actually won and must have been one of the worst performances, entertainment wise I've seen in a long, long while.

[Hullfox]

If you can prove anything with statistics, instead of saying it with smug satisfaction let's see you come up with statistics that show there's has been NO improvement.

Last season, all the seats around me were taken up most of the time. This season they are not. I understand that we are building for the future, maybe next season or the even the next but people need something now to cling on to.

[Louise]

Was about to explain myself, but it seems as if davieg has done a better job of explaining my thoughts than I could have, so I'll just say thanks

[davieG]

Last season, all the seats around me were taken up most of the time. This season they are not. I understand that we are building for the future, maybe next season or the even the next but people need something now to cling on to.

Practically every club has lower attendance figures this year, so I'm not sure that proves anything.

[Benji]

Practically every club has lower attendance figures this year, so I'm not sure that proves anything.

neither does any of the other stats above

the past has nothing to do with future results. Better squad? yes but so what, there isn't a column on the league table saying 'better looking squad than previous year'. It's points that matter, points that get you promoted/relegated. So what if goals are being scored, they are also going in the other end. From the 6 goals we've scored at home, remember a hat trick came in one game from connolly, well connolly has gone!

i'm optimistic about levein and what he is doing, but we're not exactly shining at the minute

[davieG]

Practically every club has lower attendance figures this year, so I'm not sure that proves anything.

For example: Sheffield United

First 4 games last season

Stoke - 19,723

Reading - 22,429

Leeds - 22,959

West Ham - 21,058

This season

Leicester - 18,224

Preston - 20,519

Coventry - 17, 739

Ipswich - 21,059

I'm not sure what changes they made to ticket prices and I'm sure the opposition will have affected the figures but the simple fact is that here's a team riding as high as they could and the gates are lower.

[davieG]

neither does any of the other stats above

the past has nothing to do with future results. Better squad? yes but so what, there isn't a column on the league table saying 'better looking squad than previous year'. It's points that matter, points that get you promoted/relegated. So what if goals are being scored, they are also going in the other end. From the 6 goals we've scored at home, remember a hat trick came in one game from connolly, well connolly has gone!

i'm optimistic about levein and what he is doing, but we're not exactly shining at the minute

I don't disagree but I the point that I and others are making is not that we are happy but that those who say there have been NO improvements - are patently wrong. Of course the points tally is of paramount importance and I'm sure MA's thought that too that's why he took his approach of buying aged, in it for the money players, not only was it a very myopic approach it did not work. the CL approach also has it's risks and is by definition a longer term approach that will hopefully provide some longevity that the MA's approach could never have achieved. It requires patience and enduring periods when no apparent progress is being made, but behind the scenes there is a lot going on I believe, with young players being given the chance to gradually assimilate themselves with playing at ever higher levels. I look upon todays first team players, even with 3 year contracts as stop gaps until CL can get the whole of the club from top to bottom in order. I remember just after he became manager CL said the whole club, Directors, Players, Coaches, Admin Staff etc was awash with negativety and self doubt, you just can't change that in a few weeks or months it takes years and longer if you have to work with an ever decreasing budget.

It's going to be a long ride, I suggest some people need to sit back and enjoy the ups and downs of what is the natural outcome of supporting a cash starved middle of the road professional football club that once every 10 years or so becomes a rising star only to fall by the way side waiting for another star to hitch a ride on.

Criticise by all means, and I shall be first in the queue on occasion but lets be constructive not destructive.

[Thracian]

on Saturday 25th September 2004 Leicester Played QPR @ Loftus Road.

This was the team for the day,

City: Pressman, Dabizas, Keown, Nalis, Dublin (Wright 76), Scowcroft, Makin, Gemmill (Gudjonsson 69), Connolly, Wilcox, Blake (Benjamin 63).

Subs not used: Heath, Williams.

One year on we will be playing QPR on Saturday 24th @ Home, now I don't know what team CL will be putting out or what tactics we will be employing but that is a change of massive proportions in football terms and anyone who thinks we have made NO progress is ignoring the facts

Fair enough the results have been disappointing and progress points wise is non-existant; I have my concerns about some aspects of CL's management, but in every club no matter how successlful or not they are there will always be people with opposing/differing views; it's part of what makes following professional football interesting

I believe the future is looking considerable brighter now than it looked then, others don't.

Here's hoping for plenty of goals, a clean sheet, exciting football and 3 points against QPR.,

Three survivors out of the 15 involved. That doesn't represent so much a change around as a revolution.

No wonder it's taking some time for the team to settle - and I think there will be a pattern now.

Safety first away - with big letters, and a cautiously positive attack on three points at home.

What frightens me is that we'll end up with us playing 4-5-1 away and the opposition playing 4-5-1 at our place and we'll go through to the rest of the season with no more goals, a couple of shots per match and we end up with cardboard representatives of spectators sitting all around the ground backed by pre-recorded crowd noise.

I suppose that sums up my major criticism of Levein (I have various minor ones despite my overall regard for him) and that is that he is such a PESSIMISTIC manager, a guy so concerned with legislating against this happening and that happening that he'd possibly be more suited to politics than football.

What worries me even more is that his dogged, no risk, bore em but build up the points up strategies is becoming endemic. Fear is spreading through the ranks of Football League managers like the Black Death and that's what it will be for football if something is not done about it. (see new thread).

I watched Liverpool versus Manchester United today - or at least I watched as much as I could stand which was half-an-hour. It was like the most dour game of chess. Each move - and all of them were no risk moves, were cancelled out with mean efficiency.

There was as much point being there to watch as standing by your father's gravestone hoping for his ghost to appear...and these being two teams whose name was synonymous with attacking, cavalier football.

The same happened with England v Ireland. It was boring and I went out. The same happened with England v Wales and the same happened with Blackburn and Bolton.

It is time for the Football authorites to do something about it cos the football club directors and the football club managers don't seem to give a shit whether they provide entertainment or not.

[The People's Hero]

Of course they can, up to a point but the only statistic that the anti CL brigade are using is the points total, which is fair enough but isolating that does not reflect improvements elsewhere.

If you can prove anything with statistics, instead of saying it with smug satisfaction let's see you come up with statistics that show there's has been NO improvement.

No point trying to make this about oneupsmanship. I personally do not believe that we are doing as well, this season, as we should be doing. It is Levein's team now, he will ultimately live or die by it and I think we all accept that. Where we differ is that I believe that in a transitional period, we should still be performing better than we are. I also believe that this defensive mindset is not going to get us anywhere.

Of course, I can't PROVE there has been no importance in 'performance'... it's something which can't be proven either way. Teams win, lose or draw and accumulate points.. is it really that unfair to judge a side on this? I believe they also have a league structure in Scotland so Levein shouldn't be too miffed by it all.

I think Levein himself would accept that at the moment, we're not good enough. Some of you on here though take satisfaction in berating those who think similarly, perhaps motivated by the pursuit of a 'holier than thou' image.

[davieG]

No point trying to make this about oneupsmanship. I personally do not believe that we are doing as well, this season, as we should be doing. It is Levein's team now, he will ultimately live or die by it and I think we all accept that. Where we differ is that I believe that in a transitional period, we should still be performing better than we are. I also believe that this defensive mindset is not going to get us anywhere.

Of course, I can't PROVE there has been no importance in 'performance'... it's something which can't be proven either way. Teams win, lose or draw and accumulate points.. is it really that unfair to judge a side on this? I believe they also have a league structure in Scotland so Levein shouldn't be too miffed by it all.

I think Levein himself would accept that at the moment, we're not good enough. Some of you on here though take satisfaction in berating those who think similarly, perhaps motivated by the pursuit of a 'holier than thou' image.

I take no satisfaction from the situation andcertainly am not holier than thou. I'm un happy about the progress but I understand some of the difficulties. As for "berating those who think similarly" my whole involvement in this CL debate stems from FNQ, one of the anti-Levein brigade accusing me of lying because of the way I voted. So if accusations are going to be flung around I suggest you look the other way.

[Thracian]

After the accusations from some about no progress being made... A year on and 9 games in I'm happy to point out some factual improvements from this point last season:

By this time last year we had received 3 red cards. Now we have had none.

By this time last year we had scored 8 league goals, now we have scored 10. But more important than that statistic for me is that we had only scored 3 home goals in five home games at this point last season, as opposed to this season's tally of 6 home goals in four home games.

The average age of Adams's squad at the start of 2004/2005:

Goalkeepers: 28/29

Defenders: 28/29

Midfielders: 29/30

Strikers: 27/28

Total Squad: 28/29

The average age of Levein's squad at the start of 2005/2006:

Goalkeepers: 27

Defenders: 21/22

Midfielders: 24/25

Strikers: 24/25

Total Squad: 23/24

(all players who were given squad numbers before the start of each season are included)

Cracking post. QED!

I'm sure there are other "positive" facts that could be uncovered and quantified such as length of contracts, number of Academy players drafted into first team/reserve football, realistic valuation of the squad from one year to the next, cost of wages year against year, cash-in-hand year on yhear and so forth.

Not suggesting it as an exercise - you've done your bit - but I am sure that examination of the above would illustrate a good many more pluses, and in a very short space of time.

[The People's Hero]

Accusations aren't being flung around...

You just seem a bit defensive about it now though!

Seriously.. I mean no harm, chill out and enjoy the rollercoaster.. if you can call it that at the minute.

[Thracian]

Of course they can, up to a point but the only statistic that the anti CL brigade are using is the points total, which is fair enough but isolating that does not reflect improvements elsewhere.

If you can prove anything with statistics, instead of saying it with smug satisfaction let's see you come up with statistics that show there's has been NO improvement.

The only other area that has been sited by the anti brigade is the entertainment value, well goal wise Louise has put that one to bed, I don't believe our performances so far have sunk to the level of last years especially those against Brighton & Watford. I have also mentioned on a previous thread the Stoke home game which we actually won and must have been one of the worst performances, entertainment wise I've seen in a long, long while.

It's not often I disagree with you but I have to confess I loved the Stoke game. It was a bit slapstick and a bit hard on the nerves at times but things were forever happening, we scored four goals, Connolly nabbed a hat-trick, the game swung this way and that, we won and we collected three points. Beats Wolves any time to my mind.

[davieG]

It's not often I disagree with you but I have to confess I loved the Stoke game. It was a bit slapstick and a bit hard on the nerves at times but things were forever happening, we scored four goals, Connolly nabbed a hat-trick, the game swung this way and that, we won and we collected three points. Beats Wolves any time to my mind.

Sorry Thracian I didn't make myself to clear I was refering to the Stoke game last year, which we actually drew.

[ivarti]

It's not often I disagree with you but I have to confess I loved the Stoke game. It was a bit slapstick and a bit hard on the nerves at times but things were forever happening, we scored four goals, Connolly nabbed a hat-trick, the game swung this way and that, we won and we collected three points. Beats Wolves any time to my mind.

[ivarti]

I run the website norfox.net, and I was at the game against Sheff W. I also had the pleasure of talking to Craig Levein for almost an hour when City visited Norway. We have also been very welcomed by Peter Taylor and Micky Adams. Former chairman John Elsom also was a very pleasent man. They were all extremely friendly, because of our support for Leicester City. And as I say I will always support Leicester City, but will not always agree with everything that's done. The fact that we have the internet and can follow every movement and almost be with the players and the coaching staff 24 hours a day through the official site, message boards and Leicester City World, makes it all a bit crazy. We are following every step and at the moment we are at the lowest point of the league ladder that we have ever been. The worst that has happend to City since they were formed is the fact that the club has struggled in the middle or bottom of the 2nd level in English football. The problem today is that Levein is still searching for his answers and that he needs time to get things sorted out. But the football train is running fast and with two games coming up almost every week there isn't much to do. Craig would I look up on as one of the most promising managers in the game. He is reflected at the same time he's an old footballer who has been playing at all levels as well as the World Cup, so the guy knows a bit about football. There will always be things that we all would disagree with and we all are having different opinions. When I was at the Sheff W game I thought ok this was a win, but who were we playing ? A team promoted through the play-off's that we should really taking three points from. Cardiff away is a difficult game, but we managed to get one point there last season with a certain Richard Stearman playing for us, coming on as a sub. There is no special formula but for me football is easy. When you don't have the best players in the world, you don't pick up as many points as you want then it's one way down the drain, and that is starting changing everything, game after game. The problem with Levein as a I see it, and with most managers not getting the results they need, they try to change their team, picking players they believed weren't good enough last week. I'm not shure what Levein are thinking about, when he is not using Iain Hume. He has signed him to score goals and if he doesn't start using him the guy will just think, why aren't I'm good enough, why isn't he picking me. Every player wants to play as much as possilbe, that's why they keep on doing this. Don't fool around about being tired and things like that. It's a lot that is wrong, but we just have to sit back an relax. The club has done so many changes in the past that to start talking about Levein as a man leaving, would be foolish. But I can agree with a lot of you, at the moment a lot of the things happening doesn't really make sence. I'm a great believer in continuity and also a believer in giving people a chance after a failure, if you don't have patience as a leader to accept one or two bad games from a player, then you will get in big, big trouble and soon have a full squad of players without the believe in you and at the same time the believe in themselves. Good luck, let's hope that the sunshine soon will hit Leicester City

[Thracian]

Sorry Thracian I didn't make myself to clear I was refering to the Stoke game last year, which we actually drew.

Ha ha. I thought it was strange that we should have such a diametrically opposite view of a football match.

[Benji]

wow use paragraphs mate i lost where i was 5 times

messing mate, good post. I agree about hume the most, why is he not playing. To be fair levein went in the wolves game with a formation, hume couldn't have gone upfront alone so that is understandable. But if he doesn't start against QPR (say he is cup-tied against blackpool i dunno) then questions will be asked.

i fully understand we are in a period of reform and the players need to gel. But player to player, we have a team that could match any in this division. Even if we don't perform brilliantly every game, it is still expectable to pick up a win no and then, that's what these key players are there for. It's not going to happen every game at the moment, but drawing and losing against teams that have just come up/struggled last season is frustrating.