Foxes against racism

[Babylon]

Well maybe, but you've got to ask who or what started the confrontation.

silly me... of course the nasty whites must have started it as those lovely asians would never do anything like that.

[Head Honcho]

Are you kidding me!!! I've seen more fights with groups of asians attacking single white men than I have the other way round while out in Leicester!!

Well maybe, but you've got to ask who or what started the confrontation.

While overt racism is in decline (no more rivers of blood, thankyou Mr Powell), I think racism is still a major problem ( I come from Stoke and some attitudes there are positively archaic). And yeah, it exists from ethnic minority groups to whites, but in the main, it is the ethnic minorities who are discriminated agianst. That is why campaigns such as Kick... exist. Where there is racism from the minority groups, it is probably largely from a sense of being victims of frustration, social exclusion and discrimination.

Campaigns like these seek to boost inclusion and break down barriers. This in turn can reduce racism from all groups. That i presume is the aim. However that's not to say some people are not just tw@s and will always be prejudiced.

I think it is a little crass for people to come on and say "what about us poor whites", when we are the prominent "group" in this country. Do we suffer discrimination on the same level as ethnic groups? No of course not. We are more socially aspirational, we get the best jobs, we get paid more, we don't get attacked for looking like terrorists, we don't get scapegoated if we are seeking asylum...the list goes on. To be honest, walking through Brixton and feeling a bit vulnerable when some huge black guy offers me weed is not comparable. Have there been any cases like Stephen Lawrence in which a white guy was the victim of a racist attack and institutional racism? Nope

Time to get some perspective and stop complaining about campaigns and groups that actually try and do a little good

Of course there have been you plonker.

Unfortunately our beloved press choose not to sensationalise it, which they do when a White on Black attacks occurs.

Another one who needs to take his blinkers off and get out more.

[Thracian]

[/b]

This is typical every second of the day up and down the country, although if you listen to the CRE you wouldn't think so.

Did they need an Anti Racism day to become friends!

No they did not.

Couldn't agree more. Football probably does more good every day in promoting harmonious co-existence than anything contrived.

[Thracian]

At every Vale home game where we play a team from a town/city with a large number of non-whites, there a chants of "Your just a town full of pakis!". To me that's a pretty big problem.

Cobridge: that's where I saw the sign on the bridge near the antiques centre when there was controversy over flying of the Union Jack:- "You've got your flag but we've got your country". No wonder there's tension in Stoke with that sort of grafitti allowed to remain untouched for weeks.

[Willis]

Right, OK, so institutional racism exists in the national media AGAINST whites, that's why those cases go unreported. Silly me! And institutionalised racism AGAINST whites is prevelant in the police and other organisations. Come on! Need to get out more? Anybody who has come across a Mail/Express headline knows that to be false.

And as for your fighting Babylon, what I meant was, who knows whether racism started the fights or not. And if you read my post, then you'd see I acknowledge that racism exists in both directions. And of course, there are always nobheads whatever their background.

While in Stoke, lets make sure we scrub out the "...got your country" graffitti, becasue it is just so offensive but leave all the "pakis out", "white is right" stuff because, well, we can't be arsed and they're used to it. This is what I mean. Surely the inverted racism stems as a result of years of being fustrated, excluded and prejudiced against. And now people get on their high horse about the lack of acknowledgement of the strife of the white man?!? Leave it out!

And what is so wrong about a contrived campaign? At least they are trying. Yes, football has the potential to bring people together so why not give it a kick up the arse and start a campaign? Sure it might not work, but at least give it a chance before righting it off as a load of PC rubbish

[CasinoGee]

Well said la'

[Head Honcho]

Right, OK, so institutional racism exists in the national media AGAINST whites, that's why those cases go unreported. Silly me! And institutionalised racism AGAINST whites is prevelant in the police and other organisations. Come on! Need to get out more? Anybody who has come across a Mail/Express headline knows that to be false.

And as for your fighting Babylon, what I meant was, who knows whether racism started the fights or not. And if you read my post, then you'd see I acknowledge that racism exists in both directions. And of course, there are always nobheads whatever their background.

While in Stoke, lets make sure we scrub out the "...got your country" graffitti, becasue it is just so offensive but leave all the "pakis out", "white is right" stuff because, well, we can't be arsed and they're used to it. This is what I mean. Surely the inverted racism stems as a result of years of being fustrated, excluded and prejudiced against. And now people get on their high horse about the lack of acknowledgement of the strife of the white man?!? Leave it out!

And what is so wrong about a contrived campaign? At least they are trying. Yes, football has the potential to bring people together so why not give it a kick up the arse and start a campaign? Sure it might not work, but at least give it a chance before righting it off as a load of PC rubbish

Now i never said that did i.

The press give Black on White crimes less exposure because it's un pc for them to do otherwise, and they don't want to come across as being Racist now do they!

You asked how come we don't hear about Stephen Lawrence type attacks on white people, well probably because you haven't looked!

They do exist to those who are willing to accept that they do, but then you just don't want to believe that do you.

Why is that i wonder ?

[Willis]

Ta

I think despite Thracian's example, which is great, there must be many people from minority groups who would like to watch the footy but feel threatened by the large amount of caucasian, beered up, shouty and sweary fans. They may not be racist in the slightiest but for an outsider it could be really daunting. And maybe the caucasian beered up shouty and sweary fans would welcome more fans from ethnic backgrounds, but are so taken up by the football affairs, it's not at the forefront of their minds.

So what the campaign, fully supported by fans and clubs, can say is "it's OK, come join us and let's call Crouch a donkey, the more the merrier". Surely that can be no bad thing. Break down barriers, inclusion, reciprocal - David Brentisms but good ones.

It's like if you meet your girlfriends group of mates for the first time down the pub. They may not have a problem with you in the slightest, but you still feel a bit awkward because you don't know anyone. It's nice if they say hi, allright, how you doing and get you involved.

[Babylon]

And as for your fighting Babylon, what I meant was, who knows whether racism started the fights or not. And if you read my post, then you'd see I acknowledge that racism exists in both directions. And of course, there are always nobheads whatever their background.

I could not agree more.... BUT... when a group of white people or a white person commits an act of physical violence against an asian or an african, why is it 98% of the time reported in the media as "thought to be racially motivated" when no evidence has even been released to prove this??

It also seems to warrant half a page of reporting. I have seen identical attacks on white people by other races that get 10 lines of report in a paper. I find that more annoying than anything.

I just want every single person to be treated the same in every way. Will it ever happen.... no!

[Head Honcho]

Ta

I think despite Thracian's example, which is great, there must be many people from minority groups who would like to watch the footy but feel threatened by the large amount of caucasian, beered up, shouty and sweary fans. They may not be racist in the slightiest but for an outsider it could be really daunting. And maybe the caucasian beered up shouty and sweary fans would welcome more fans from ethnic backgrounds, but are so taken up by the football affairs, it's not at the forefront of their minds.

So what the campaign, fully supported by fans and clubs, can say is "it's OK, come join us and let's call Crouch a donkey, the more the merrier". Surely that can be no bad thing. Break down barriers, inclusion, reciprocal - David Brentisms but good ones.

It's like if you meet your girlfriends group of mates for the first time down the pub. They may not have a problem with you in the slightest, but you still feel a bit awkward because you don't know anyone. It's nice if they say hi, allright, how you doing and get you involved.

So would it be OK to call Akinbiyi a Donkey, or could that be construed as Racist, and why is it OK to call Crouch a Donkey? Despite the fact that he plays like one

[Head Honcho]

I could not agree more.... BUT... when a group of white people or a white person commits an act of physical violence against an asian or an african, why is it 98% of the time reported in the media as "thought to be racially motivated" when no evidence has even been released to prove this??

It also seems to warrant half a page of reporting. I have seen identical attacks on white people by other races that get 10 lines of report in a paper. I find that more annoying than anything.

I just want every single person to be treated the same in every way. Will it ever happen.... no!

Spot on

[Gamesmaster]

Have there been any cases like Stephen Lawrence in which a white guy was the victim of a racist attack and institutional racism? Nope

didnt someone here publish a picture?

allen crouch is a donkey, so is akinbiyi

[CasinoGee]

I could not agree more.... BUT... when a group of white people or a white person commits an act of physical violence against an asian or an african, why is it 98% of the time reported in the media as "thought to be racially motivated" when no evidence has even been released to prove this??

It also seems to warrant half a page of reporting. I have seen identical attacks on white people by other races that get 10 lines of report in a paper. I find that more annoying than anything.

I just want every single person to be treated the same in every way. Will it ever happen.... no!

You're so determined that it will never happen that you'll try and find fault with everything trying to rectify it. People who aren't of English origin have been so horribly treated over the last century or so, yet as soon as we go over the other side of the line slightly it must be stopped! Fvcking hell!

[Willis]

a donkey is a donkey

In a footballing sense akinbyi is one, sadly last night he shook off his donkeyness for a moment of madness in which he scored

[Head Honcho]

You're so determined that it will never happen that you'll try and find fault with everything trying to rectify it. People who aren't of English origin have been so horribly treated over the last century or so, yet as soon as we go over the other side of the line slightly it must be stopped! Fvcking hell!

I'm not of English origin, and to tell you the truth i'm sick

and tired of the race card being used all the time.

The non-indigenous people of this Country should count themselves very lucky because they've never had it so good.

They have more opportunities then their parents ever had, so get out there and make the most of it.

[Gamesmaster]

a donkey is a donkey

In a footballing sense akinbyi is one, sadly last night he shook off his donkeyness for a moment of madness in which he scored

has akinbiyi scored more than mdv this season

[Guest]

has akinbiyi scored more than mdv this season

Yes he has.

[Guest]

Police apathy is the biggest obstacle in tackling Racism at City games.

They have powers of arrest but 99 times out of a 100 they don't or won't use them.

Leicester City pay a lot of money for the Police presence, and should be asking why they don't respond to complaints about racism from the fan's.

Please don't say they do, because i have complained on several occasions, all to no avail.

They arrested and charged a Villa fan with racist chanting a few years ago, only when it went to court, he got off because he claimed he had a sore throat and was only miming, therefore he wasn't actually chanting. The magistrates believed it.

It is very hard to prove, CCTV will show the persons joining in, but any decent brief will now know that there is an argument that will get you off.

The worst of it is, I reported the incident to the police, I even offered to give them my details if they needed witnesses, but they declined my offer.

[Thracian]

You're so determined that it will never happen that you'll try and find fault with everything trying to rectify it. People who aren't of English origin have been so horribly treated over the last century or so, yet as soon as we go over the other side of the line slightly it must be stopped! Fvcking hell!

This is one of the deep rooted difficulties - the concept that, somehow non-whites have had a torrid time of it and all the white guys have had a picnic.

Why I should have to give examples of the obvious I don't know really. Virtual slave labour in the 19th century even for children. Torrid hours, low pay, lousy conditions and maybe a Sunday afternoon off - to go to Church.

Then there was the First War - hundreds of thousands of young kids, teenagers, dying up to their neck in several feet of filthy sludge. Months on end trying to win a few yards of territory before a shell blasted your head into pieces and gave you relief from the freezing cold, and the stench and the horror and the fear.

It's not so long ago poor people were hanged for stealing chickens and hangings were spectacles akin to football matches.

Even go back to the Nazi era where clean living, decent people were suddenly being dragged out of bed and despatched to the Concentration camps with their kids to face horriofice torture, degradation and death.

Don't talk to me about suffering. I had over 70 of my family killed by the Germans for doing sod all to them that I can understand and don't talk to me about things like the Slave Trade and how white men did this and that. Black men sold those slaves and transported them in shit conditions from the African interior to their fate. And all for a sordid profit.

All sorts and all colours have suffered sickly over the years and even over recent years. Don't ever imagine you've got a f.....g monopoly on suffering. I've just come from a hospital full of the desperately ill and suffering. Yes they are mostly getting treatment but what when they get out?.

They are gonna suffer, believe me, and partly because so much money is spent on protecting our land from the invasion of ILLEGAL immigrants who when they get here have been proven to run other illegal immigrant operations or to fraudulently take advantage of our social security system.

These people, of course, do nothing to enhance the good name of all the legally resident non-Caucasians who do and have done so much for this country but don't try taking the moral high ground and, as I say, don't ever imagine you have been dealt all the duff cards where suffering is concerned.

Shit happens for everyone in the end pal.

[Babylon]

You're so determined that it will never happen that you'll try and find fault with everything trying to rectify it. People who aren't of English origin have been so horribly treated over the last century or so, yet as soon as we go over the other side of the line slightly it must be stopped! Fvcking hell!

What???

I said I want everyone to be treated the same. How exactly do you work out that i'm "so determined that it will never happen". Moronic comment if you ask me.

Are you saying that because other races have had it hard in the past they should be treated better than whites now. Fvcking hell!!

[CasinoGee]

What???

I said I want everyone to be treated the same. How exactly do you work out that i'm "so determined that it will never happen". Moronic comment if you ask me.

Are you saying that because other races have had it hard in the past they should be treated better than whites now. Fvcking hell!!

Because everyone is treated as equally as possible in the current climite. Unfortunately some people who look vaguely arabic will be treated differently on the London Underground and other places. Yet even though there's no real difference in how all people are treated, you keep on harping on about how we're not treated equally.

When did I say that other races should be treated better than white people? I was saying that as soon as non whites get a bit of leeway people start masterbating over it like a furious monkey, as if it makes any real difference. It's all one big balancing act and we're not going to get it right all the time. We can't complain about having loads of non whites in England, our ancestors raped their ancestor's land (and their people). That's the only reason that England is as well off as it is. But now we have no empire, we're just a small island yet everyone seems to have this sense of superiority. If you want to go work somewhere abroad, you bloody well expect to be allowed there, yet if someone wants to work here and has different coloured skin (no one complains about Americans, the largest inhabitant of this country from a different nation, or Australians etc...) they get persucuted.

[Head Honcho]

They arrested and charged a Villa fan with racist chanting a few years ago, only when it went to court, he got off because he claimed he had a sore throat and was only miming, therefore he wasn't actually chanting. The magistrates believed it.

It is very hard to prove, CCTV will show the persons joining in, but any decent brief will now know that there is an argument that will get you off.

The worst of it is, I reported the incident to the police, I even offered to give them my details if they needed witnesses, but they declined my offer.

Exactly!

What is the point of the campaign if the fan's who complain about racism are ignored.

The Club need to be asking the Police for answers.Why don't you bring it up at the next meeting?

[Head Honcho]

Because everyone is treated as equally as possible in the current climite. Unfortunately some people who look vaguely arabic will be treated differently on the London Underground and other places. Yet even though there's no real difference in how all people are treated, you keep on harping on about how we're not treated equally.

When did I say that other races should be treated better than white people? I was saying that as soon as non whites get a bit of leeway people start masterbating over it like a furious monkey, as if it makes any real difference. It's all one big balancing act and we're not going to get it right all the time. We can't complain about having loads of non whites in England, our ancestors raped their ancestor's land (and their people). That's the only reason that England is as well off as it is. But now we have no empire, we're just a small island yet everyone seems to have this sense of superiority. If you want to go work somewhere abroad, you bloody well expect to be allowed there, yet if someone wants to work here and has different coloured skin (no one complains about Americans, the largest inhabitant of this country from a different nation, or Australians etc...) they get persucuted.

You don't half talk some bollox

[Guest]

Exactly!

What is the point of the campaign if the fan's who complain about racism are ignored.

The Club need to be asking the Police for answers.Why don't you bring it up at the next meeting?

I brought it up at the fans forum, as it was then, when the Football Supporters Liaison Officer came in to talk to us. He said that the police would investigate any incident of racism, and I disagreed. There have been numerous occasions when I've tried reporting people, only to be fobbed off. Both before and after speaking to them.

These days, it only ever gets mentioned when someone comes to the WS and starts chanting the usual crap.

To be honest though, in the example I gave, it wasn't the fault of the police, it was the magistrates who believed the defence argument who are at fault.

[Rincewind]

Sometimes people confuse racism with prejudice and stereotyping. Our prejudices are often based on our personal experiences which then leads to stereotyping. It may seem OK and harmless to select a group for a bit of 'baiting' at football grounds but to those on the receiving end it becomes tiresome as they have encountered it many times before. The reason why people of other ethnic groups are being encouraged to join the police is because of the attitude of the white majority police officers. Some sections of the ethnic population are losing faith with the police because of this and are less willing to help. This is perceived as non co-operation and so the circle continues. The campaign is mainly to stamp out what goes on inside a football ground when the chants are aimed at a specific group. If we stop this then it goes some way to solving the problem. What goes on outside the ground is an entirely different issue which is for society to resolve starting from the home through to the schools and to the workplace.